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381

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 10:19:04 PM

oops, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40934.msg499984#msg499984

382

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 10:06:19 PM

Quote from: sliderider on September 02, 2011, 09:29:02 PM Also, does ANYBODY really want to bring the authorities into this? The last thing anyone should want is bitcoin being mentioned in court documents. Bringing suit or prosecution on anyone for misappropriation of bitcoins only brings scrutiny on the entire system and probably hastening it's demise just like happened to egold and so many other anonymous ecurrencies then everybody loses. Would it be useful to establish legal precedent? Quote from: DLowDAOG on September 02, 2011, 09:37:26 PM That is NOT the case. Patrick and Donald sent email after email threatening BenDavis and his family. His children. His freedom. You make an EPIC mistake like this, and then you threaten someones KIDS about it? That is NOT the way to get what you want back. Ah, I see. You should publicize the threats.

383

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 09:43:10 PM

Quote from: molecular on September 02, 2011, 06:18:56 PM Quote from: Vladimir on September 02, 2011, 05:14:41 PM Irreversible transactions do not make honour, ethic and law irrelevant. Shit, it just took me like 20 times more words to say the same thing. +1 vladimir and another one for hitting the nail on the head. This deserves more attention. Yay for Vladimir! Quote from: bosschair on September 02, 2011, 06:43:05 PM I would definitely give the BTC back, but only after refusing and forcing the "exchange" to cry publicly about their own gross incompetence for a while. Just giving it back lets them off the hook too easily. Not knowing what the fuck you're doing while handling other people's money should have repercussions. gross incompetence? Quote from: DLowDAOG on September 02, 2011, 09:37:26 PM The fuck outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 You cannot do anything about it. You fucked up. I am sure BenDavis welcomes you to try and press any kind of charges. Being you publicly admitted the code is the problem. Being that BTC is not legal tender. Being that you live in another country lmfao see above Quote from: DLowDAOG on September 02, 2011, 09:23:08 PM 3. NOTHING ILLEGAL HAPPENED. An IRREVERSABLE TRANSACTION happened with a transfer of DATA that holds NO VALUE from wallet to wallet. I can have 1 million BTC in my wallet and they are NOT WORTH ANYTHING until I TRADE THEM to an exchange, which THEN recognizes the data as currency. Still does not make it LEGAL currency. 4. The BTC did not gain it's value until they were SOLD. AFTER THE TRANSFER. The transfer from Patrick to BenDavis of 511 BTC indeed, held no value. Value comes when you take the data to an exchange. Hopefully NOT intersango. They obviously do not know how to manage an Exchange. hmmmm, I'm curious about this. Can anyone acknowledge or confirm the validity of this statement?

384

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 09:36:28 PM

Quote from: hightax on September 02, 2011, 05:59:44 PM Quote from: casascius on September 02, 2011, 05:56:15 PM Quote from: greyhawk on September 02, 2011, 05:49:44 PM Quote from: casascius on September 02, 2011, 05:45:25 PM By the logic I'm reading here, if I put a new fountain in my front yard, and someone steals it, it was their right, because when you start putting fountains in places without locking them down, it becomes other people's right to steal them if they can. And that if someone steals my fountain, title to the fountain transfers rightfully to the thief because the nature of fountains is that possession is nine tenths of the law and that transferring fountains (just like cash) is irreversible. No, when someone accidentally builds a fountain in your front yard, you get to keep it. You mean to say that if my neighbor puts together his fountain and accidentally does so in my yard, that title to his fountain passes to me? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. By that logic, if I go to an auto parts store, buy a new pair of headlights, and install them on my car in their parking lot (their property), that they suddenly own my headlights and/or my car. Obviously that's ridiculous. When toner sales men ship you a crate of toner cartridges you didn't ask for, and then sends you a bill for those toner cartridges, you don't have to send them back, and you don't have to pay for them either. Welcome to the real world. http://www.snopes.com/crime/fraud/supplies.asp That seems to be a scam. Perhaps bitcoin exchanges are scams too?

385

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 09:26:23 PM

Quote from: johnj on September 02, 2011, 05:00:27 PM Quote from: Blitzboom on September 02, 2011, 04:53:36 PM Are you serious? He sold them before the conversation started, so his intentions were very clear. You think a nice tone would have changed this? Good to know how to approach scammers for the future though: "Could you please give me my money back? " Yeah, it could have changed things. Dude upon waking up and finding 500+ bitcoins may have gotton excited and let his greed get the best of him. As easy as it was to sell, its just as easy to buy back. But we'll never know because both parties wanted to be a tough guy. How to approach someone who has you by the balls? Hint: Not forcefully. I imagine (fantasize?) phantomcircuit had contacted him privately initially and probably in a polite manner, and it seems that BenDavis had ignored the private contact and thus led to contacting him publicly in IRC.

386

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 09:18:42 PM

Quote from: casascius on September 02, 2011, 04:09:49 PM Having people take coins that don't belong to them doesn't represent the "real world"... unless you're talking about the uncivil portion of the world where everybody is poor and outlook is bleak. To you who took the coins and claimed they were yours to keep, I consider you equivalent to a scammer. You took advantage of a service someone provided you as a favor, and you stole something with the nonsensical justification that you "could". That's the same way it works in poor neighborhoods. No one there has anything, and part of that is because they have to spend their life protecting what little they've got, because someone else feels justified to take it just because it's not locked down. That's not the way to prosperity. No one gets ahead except at somebody else's expense - the net result is the entire community stands still. On the other hand, in less desperate places, opportunities to steal are boundless, but people rarely take advantage of it because they choose to do things that get them ahead without setting somebody else back - community thrives and prospers as a whole. If the idea is that the person who built the service that sent the coins is in error and should have known better, perhaps you're right. Perhaps he should have known better than to provide a useful service and pitch in his time and talents to provide something to improve the bitcoin community. Perhaps no one should do a damn thing for Bitcoin and take the risk that a fucker like you might grab their nuts and twist them. What a fucker you are. I don't know you, or the person you stole from (yes, stole), but I will be very gratified if I ever hear you got your ass handed to you for this. This theft is a setback for all of us as a community. Yeah, BenDavis didn't steal the exchange's money, he stole the community's money, which could potentially be yours. ^_^ Therefore, that means if everyone at the exchange tried to withdraw their money, they couldn't because BenDavis has some of them, the exchange doesn't have them anymore.

387

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 09:12:08 PM

Quote from: Ringmasta on September 02, 2011, 03:38:20 PM I would have sent them back. I also would never do business with someone I knew wouldn't. But that's just me. I've turned in wallets full of fiat cash to lost & found before, as well. (edit) I should have mentioned that it was also monumentally stupid to put code into live production without thorough testing. That probably goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway. Seriously, guys, who does that? Especially on a site that's dealing with a quarter million dollars or more worth of electronic funds... See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40934.msg498999#msg498999

388

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

on: September 02, 2011, 09:08:21 PM

I confirm that this is authentic. It starts with: Quote * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@109.75.183.105) has joined #bitcoinpool <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, lovely morning isn't it <phantomcircuit> i see you really like your guns <phantomcircuit> if you want to keep them i suggest working with us <Geebus> This is not a discussion for the BitcoinPool chatroom. * wtfmate1 has joined #bitcoinpool <wtfmate1> mornin <BenDavis> mornin * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Geebus <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, you going to ignore me? <wtfmate1> looks like we r still in a long round <phantomcircuit> Geebus, you're his friend right <phantomcircuit> your server is hosted on residential ISP in the same area <Geebus> I run BitcoinPool <wtfmate1> hope it is not loong before we find block <Geebus> We're from the same area I believe, if thats what you're asking. <phantomcircuit> Geebus, i would suggest not working with him anymore <BenDavis> Why is that, Patrick? <phantomcircuit> yes <phantomcircuit> you owe me 511 btc <phantomcircuit> i strongly suggest you send it back <Geebus> Wait, you sent him 511 BTC? and continues with (also see bottom): Quote from: BitcoinPool on September 02, 2011, 02:08:54 PM IRC CHAT LOG Quote [04:50] <phantomcircuit> you owe me 511 btc [04:50] <phantomcircuit> i strongly suggest you send it back [04:50] <@Geebus> Wait, you sent him 511 BTC? [04:51] <phantomcircuit> a flaw in our withdrawal script resulted in 512 1 btc payments [04:51] <@BenDavis> How was your tea this morning? [04:51] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, i dont drink tea [04:51] <wtfmate1> I WANT 511 BITCOINS!! [04:51] <@BenDavis> me too!!! [04:51] <wtfmate1> send me bitcoins [04:52] <@Geebus> So... you sent it? ...like, initiated a transaction to him? [04:52] <wtfmate1> how do I get 511 bitcoins?? [04:52] <@Geebus> Or did he steal them? [04:52] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, just an fyi spending funds which were erroneously sent to you is legally the same as simple theft [04:52] <phantomcircuit> so congratulations you've committed a class b felony [04:52] <@BenDavis> I beg to differ Patrick [04:52] <@BenDavis> But I don't know what you are talking about! [04:53] <@BenDavis> Feel free to send me some BTC if you want. [04:53] <phantomcircuit> stop lying [04:53] <phantomcircuit> i know who you are [04:53] <@Geebus> Not to split hairs, but Bitcoins are not a recognized currency in any country, and therefore hold no monetary value... I digress though. [04:53] <wtfmate1> what did i miss out on? oh man...i want some free bitcoins [04:53] <@BenDavis> I could really use some free BTC too! [04:53] <wtfmate1> can you send me free bitcoin patrick? I will be your BFF [04:53] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, it's irrelevant he sold them immediately thus locking in the valuation at > 1k usd [04:53] <@Geebus> I'll send you a few bitcents wtfmate1... [04:53] <phantomcircuit> which makes it a serious felony [04:53] <wtfmate1> not if you give them to me [04:53] <@Geebus> They had 0 value at the time you transferred them [04:53] <wtfmate1> [04:54] <@BenDavis> Patrick Strateman, I have no clue what you are talking about. [04:54] <@BenDavis> I don't even mine for coins. [04:54] <@Geebus> Once ownership (i.e. posession) changes, the value he sells them at is irrelevant. [04:54] <phantomcircuit> yeah cool you have my name [04:54] <phantomcircuit> amazing [04:54] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, i was trying to go about this reasonably [04:54] <@Geebus> Bitcoin is a one-way system. Once you send them, you release ownership. [04:55] <phantomcircuit> clearly you have no intention of doing so [04:55] <@BenDavis> I have no clue what you are talking about! [04:55] <@Geebus> Had he stolen your wallet.dat or something, that would be different. [04:55] <@BenDavis> I will take some free BTC tho. How do I do that? [04:55] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, now you're just lying [04:55] <@BenDavis> Maybe Donald can rub your back for you? [04:55] <@BenDavis> Make you feel better? [04:55] <@BenDavis> Or Amir can get you some tea? [04:56] <@BenDavis> Hey I got a better idea. Since you know where I am ... why don't you come meet me personally? [04:56] <phantomcircuit> oh i will [04:56] <@BenDavis> Sweet! I can't wait to meet you! [04:56] <phantomcircuit> ill tell your kids how daddy is a thief [04:57] <phantomcircuit> all about how daddy likes to take things that aren't his [04:57] <@Geebus> Objection your Honor... Plaintiff is suggesting the act of receiving a transfer initiated by themselves makes the defendant a "theif." [04:57] <@Geebus> Receiving is a very different thing than taking. [04:57] <@Geebus> Taking implies force. [04:57] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, no that alone would not, acting in bad faith once it was clear they were not his [04:57] <phantomcircuit> however does [04:57] <@BenDavis> Yeah, I do not believe I took anything. [04:58] <@BenDavis> Can you tell me how I took anything? [04:58] <@BenDavis> lmfao [04:58] <@Geebus> Bad faith is a moral or ethical dilemma, not a legal matter. [04:58] <phantomcircuit> sigh [04:58] <@BenDavis> Patrick, so how is the weather in Europe today? [04:58] <wtfmate1> sounds like phantomcircuit screwed up and set free bitcoins?? did I get this right?? [04:58] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, so what you're saying is that you're refusing to act amicably to resolve this [04:58] <@Geebus> If it's any consolation, I'm sure he'll go to hell. [04:58] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, yes [04:58] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, shitty [04:58] <wtfmate1> cool, send me some then [04:59] <wtfmate1> [04:59] <wtfmate1> 1J5PZukyLapvbLUUjhvV3MCyQWg3e6pRW8 [04:59] <phantomcircuit> to be clear they were not free [04:59] <wtfmate1> they are if you send them to me [04:59] <wtfmate1> [04:59] <@BenDavis> Can you send that address some BTC? [05:00] <@Geebus> did you have a prearranged contract negotiating an exchange of goods or services for the BTC? [05:00] <@Geebus> ...otherwise, they were free. [05:00] <@BenDavis> So when are you going to fly over here from Europe and meet me? [05:01] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, in about a month ill be there anyways [05:01] <@BenDavis> Sweet bro. [05:01] <@BenDavis> Can't wait to shake your hand. [05:01] <@Geebus> Well, I can't say "free"... I'm sure you had to pay some tx fees on a 511 btc transfer... [05:01] <phantomcircuit> yeah im sure you'll be super excited when they put you in cuffs! [05:01] <@BenDavis> Oh I can't wait man! [05:01] <@Geebus> Who is "they [05:01] <@Geebus> ? [05:01] <phantomcircuit> the police [05:01] <@BenDavis> Some secret Euro police team that governs BTC lmfao [05:02] <phantomcircuit> he committed a serious crime [05:02] <@Geebus> Like, state police? [05:02] <wtfmate1> if he did not steal them, then will never hear from the police. [05:02] <@BenDavis> Really? What crime? [05:02] <@BenDavis> I think you just fucked up [05:02] <@BenDavis> and are pissed [05:02] <@BenDavis> and trying to scare me [05:02] <@BenDavis> but I tell you this [05:02] <@BenDavis> I am no punk [05:02] <wtfmate1> sounds like you messed up phantomcircuit. what went wrong? [05:02] <@BenDavis> so you fucked up bro! [05:02] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, i messed up [05:02] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, yeha i can see that [05:02] <wtfmate1> how? [05:02] <@Geebus> ...because, as an international matter, no state jurisdiction would be capable of taking the case, nor would you be able to file a police report or charges against him without being a legal resident of the US, or without having the legal representation of an embassy residing therein. [05:02] <wtfmate1> how do you accidently send 511 btc? [05:03] <@BenDavis> My question is ... what the fuck were you doing when you sent that on accidemt? [05:03] <@BenDavis> What on earth were you doing lol [05:03] <@BenDavis> Trying to figure out a way to fuck someone over and it bit you in the ass? [05:03] <phantomcircuit> it's automated there was a bug [05:03] <@BenDavis> woops, get a new coder [05:03] <@BenDavis> fire Amir [05:03] <@BenDavis> Kinda looks like you should be mad at Amir [05:04] <wtfmate1> how do you have 511 btc though? [05:04] <@Geebus> I'll admit, my own code fuck ups on this pool have cost me a few hundred bitcoins... not a single one that I got back. [05:04] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, did you know who you sent it to? [05:04] <@Geebus> Of course I did. [05:04] <Optonic> Geebus: hah! you got a single one back [05:05] <@Geebus> Optonic: Thats right, lol [05:05] <@Geebus> Optonic: Thanks for reminding me. I appreciate it. [05:05] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, so i see you dont think youv'e committed a crime [05:05] <wtfmate1> phantomcircuit, how did you have 511 btc? Did you mine them? [05:05] <phantomcircuit> lets say i was to buy something online and i live next to you [05:05] <phantomcircuit> but i mess up [05:05] <phantomcircuit> and i send it to you [05:05] <phantomcircuit> is this now yours? [05:05] <phantomcircuit> (hint the answer is no) [05:05] <@BenDavis> How did you get 511 BTC ? [05:06] <phantomcircuit> i think you know [05:06] <@BenDavis> no i dont [05:06] <phantomcircuit> i think you do [05:06] <@BenDavis> surecock [05:06] <@BenDavis> answer the question [05:06] <phantomcircuit> obviously it's other peoples [05:07] <wtfmate1> do you run a pool? [05:08] <phantomcircuit> no an exchange [05:08] <wtfmate1> which one? [05:08] <wtfmate1> tradehill or gox? [05:08] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, so to recap, you dont believe you are legally obliged to return the funds, you will not return the funds, you dont even feel bad about keeping them? [05:08] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, neither [05:09] <wtfmate1> which one then? [05:09] <phantomcircuit> intersango.com [05:10] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, you know we've accidentally sent people funds in the past and you've the only person who has ever refused to send them back [05:10] <@Geebus> I'm not asking to be defensive of him, but out of curiosity. What legal basis is there for returning something that was sent to you without any prevocation? [05:10] <@Geebus> I'd personally like to know for some of my own errors I've tried to legally pursue in the past, as I've been told that there is none. [05:11] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, it depends on whether you could reasonably return the goods, if you find $5 on the sidewalk you cant be reasonably expected to figure out whose $5 it was, but if the bank (or anybody else) sends you money for no reason you are obliged to send it back [05:11] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, i believe this is a pretty clear case of the latter [05:11] <wtfmate1> phontomcircuit, so you have about 155 btc worth of trades right now on your exchange? [05:12] <@Geebus> But you're not a registered financial institution are you? I had some problems with the Australian Federal Police in regard to a similar situation. [05:12] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, we just migrated to a new version, unfortunately the openid login system we were using in the past cannot be trivially migrated, so most of our users (and trades) are not yet being displayed [05:13] <wtfmate1> and your code messed up and sent 511 btc to BenDavis? [05:13] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, the laws on this vary by country, but in the us it is very clear that if you receive something out of the blue without expecting it you have no duty to try and return it but you do have a duty to not spend it [05:13] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, the irony here being that it did so in an attempt to be robust [05:13] <Optonic> code messing up itself is an interesting matter btw [05:13] <@Geebus> So, you can keep it, but not spend it? [05:14] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, you have an obligation to return it if the original sender makes it clear it was a mistake [05:14] <phantomcircuit> which i believe i have [05:14] <wtfmate1> phantomcircuit: that sucks [05:14] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, seriously class b felony [05:15] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, fuck the felony part [05:15] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, just dont be a dick [05:15] <phantomcircuit> it's not even our bitcoins [05:16] <phantomcircuit> it's not like we're some fucking huge bank or something [05:16] <Optonic> I already see a headline "blabla exchange loses 511 btc on accident" - I don't think users will like this. keep it under the carpet, dude. [05:16] <@Geebus> I'm googling it, but I can't seem to find any law regarding the accidental transfer of ownership [05:17] <@Geebus> In the US or any other country for that matter. [05:18] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vtmiMvqow4UJ:www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk [05:18] <phantomcircuit> A person commits theft when, with intent to deprive another of property or to appropriate property to the person or to a third person, the person: [05:18] <phantomcircuit> (1) Takes, appropriates, obtains or withholds such property from an owner thereof; [05:19] <phantomcircuit> it is not his property [05:19] <phantomcircuit> it is our property [05:19] <phantomcircuit> he is merely in possession of it [05:19] <@BenDavis> lmfao [05:19] <@BenDavis> possession is 9\10ths the law they say [05:19] <@Geebus> Here is the description of a transaction according to the Bitcoin FAQ: "Eve cannot change who the coins belong to by replacing Bob’s public key with her public key, because Alice signed the transfer to Bob using her private key, declaring that the coins which belonged to her now belong to Bob, and Alice's private key is kept secret from Eve. So if Charley accepts that the original coin was in the hands of Alice he will also accep [05:19] <@Geebus> It clearly defines a transfer of ownership. [05:20] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, the other 1/10th is proof that it was a mistaken payment [05:20] <wtfmate1> wait, "05:15] <phantomcircuit> it's not even our bitcoins" .......... so if you don't own them, and you sent them to him on accident, it's still not "your" property. You just contradicted yourself. [05:20] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, we act as agent for other people [05:20] <@BenDavis> Good point there ... you don't even own them. They are NOT yours. So I guess all those poor souls who you LOST their money, are going to have to file the police report. [05:20] <@BenDavis> Because they are NOT yours. [05:21] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, look forget whether it's illegal or [05:21] <phantomcircuit> not [05:21] <@Geebus> IRC is logged dude, I wouldn't have come in here and said that. [05:21] <wtfmate1> phantomcircuit: Are you solvent now? [05:21] <phantomcircuit> do you really want to be that guy with your name and all your info out there saying you stole 511 BTC? [05:21] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, yes [05:21] <@BenDavis> oh believe me... I am copying this entire discussion [05:21] <@Geebus> Technically, you threathened him physically, which IS against US federal law [05:21] <wtfmate1> OUT OF BUSINESS? [05:21] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, i never threatened him [05:21] <phantomcircuit> ever [05:22] <@BenDavis> You are just mad because your Exchange is going to go OUT OF BUSINESS now ... and you are trying desperately to get your BTC back [05:22] <phantomcircuit> i said id some see him [05:22] <phantomcircuit> come* [05:22] <@Geebus> <phantomcircuit> i see you really like your guns [04:47] <phantomcircuit> if you want to keep them i suggest working with us [05:22] <@BenDavis> But ... I do not know what you are talking about ... I never got any coins [05:22] <wtfmate1> so you don't have the bitcoins to cover what people gave you? [05:22] <phantomcircuit> we wont be going out of business over 5k usd [05:22] <@Geebus> You threatened him with injury to his person or personal affects. [05:22] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, yes felons are not allowed to have firearms [05:23] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, we do [05:23] <wtfmate1> but you just said you were solvent? so which is it? Why do you keep contradicting yourself? [05:23] <@BenDavis> He is scared [05:23] <@BenDavis> And thinks he can scare me [05:23] <@Geebus> Bitcoin is designed to be an irreversible transaction system. [05:24] <@Geebus> There is a point in which you have to accept that you're probably not going to get back whatever you sent, and you need to move on. Trust me, I know. [05:24] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, solvent means we have enough funds [05:24] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, you're thinking of insolvent [05:25] <wtfmate1> ah yes, you r right [05:25] <wtfmate1> so you arent out of business over this? [05:25] <phantomcircuit> no [05:26] <wtfmate1> you r lucky then [05:26] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, at the very least dont you just feell kind of like a dick [05:26] <wtfmate1> still, sucks you messed up. [05:26] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, did you like my email btw? [05:26] <Optonic> phantomcircuit: what was the name of your exchange again? I have to put this one on my personal black list [05:26] <@BenDavis> Patrick, yes bro, I did get a good lauch outta that LOL that was pretty cool [05:26] <@BenDavis> the Indiana Jones thing [05:27] <@BenDavis> laugh* [05:28] <wtfmate1> phantomcircuit: how many bitcoins do you have left after that accident? [05:29] <@Geebus> Didn't the FBI say during all the MyBitcoin stuff that people were basically just fucked that they lost a bunch of intangible data that holds no value in the eyes of the government? [05:29] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, im about to do an offline backup ill show you... [05:29] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, what makes this different is that he immediately sold them, thus proving their value [05:29] <phantomcircuit> ironic no? [05:30] <@Geebus> He proved they had a value AFTER you transferred ownership to him [05:30] <@Geebus> Not at the time they were transferred. [05:30] <@Geebus> Bitcoin is a one-way system. [05:30] <phantomcircuit> times close enough that it's irrelevant [05:31] <@Geebus> The relevant point is that you transferred ownership [05:31] <@Geebus> Not the value. [05:31] <@Geebus> If I give someone a car and they immediately turn around and sell it, I can't do anything about it. [05:31] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, i have absolutely no doubt that he has committed a crime, but honestly i dont give a shit i just want them back [05:32] <@BenDavis> What is the crime again? [05:32] <wtfmate1> I'm not sure which is worse...getting your bitcoins hacked/stolen, or accidentally sending them to a random address [05:32] <wtfmate1> lol [05:32] <@BenDavis> LOL [05:32] <@Geebus> If I gave someone a car, legally transferred ownership to them and then asked for it back, they can tell me to fuck off. Legally. [05:32] <wtfmate1> that totally blows for phantomcircuit [05:32] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, it's theft btw [05:33] <@BenDavis> Actually Patrick... [05:33] <@Geebus> Theft - the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny. [05:33] <wtfmate1> but sounds like you have the btc to coverup your mistake [05:33] <@BenDavis> Technically YOU are the theif [05:33] <@Geebus> He "took" nothing. [05:33] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, there was no legal transfer [05:33] <@BenDavis> because you gave away someone elses BTC without their permission [05:33] <@BenDavis> so who is the theif? [05:33] <@Geebus> You initiated a transaction in the network to him, correct? ...he did not steal your wallet.dat? [05:33] <@BenDavis> There was no illegal transfer either [05:33] <wtfmate1> if your code messed up, that's a costly mistake or leason learned the hard way. [05:33] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, impressive rationalization [05:34] <@BenDavis> I know right, Patrick? Sometimes I surprise myself [05:34] <@BenDavis> Cuz technically, they are NOT your coins, correct? [05:34] <wtfmate1> phantomcircuit: you already admitted your code messed up, so that's on you....not him. [05:34] <@BenDavis> Please answer yes or no. [05:34] <wtfmate1> your bad [05:34] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, we're an agent [05:34] <phantomcircuit> so the answer isn't yes or no [05:34] <@BenDavis> Are they YOUR coins, yes or no. [05:34] <@Geebus> By that definition, our users have stolen 26200 bitcoins from us through transactions we have sent to them. [05:34] <@BenDavis> the answer is NO. [05:35] <@BenDavis> So. You sending them when they are not yours... makes YOU the thief. [05:35] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, no you meant to send them the vast majority of those [05:35] <wtfmate1> as I understand bitcoin, phantomcircuit's code had to have initiated the transfer...which makes it his mistake, not bendavis's mistake. [05:35] <@Geebus> So, you are trying to prove intent? [05:35] <wtfmate1> sounds like bendavis got reallly lucky [05:35] <wtfmate1> because phantomcircuits code fucked up [05:36] <wtfmate1> whooops [05:36] <wtfmate1> I bet that will never happen again. [05:36] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, intent in this matter is crystal clear [05:36] <@Geebus> Rationally speaking, since I assume you didn't realize you were sending them until the point in which you stopped, one could argue that you didn't intend for him to receive them until he had received more than required. [05:36] <wtfmate1> yes, you messed up and sent bitcoins. [05:36] <@Geebus> Therefore, intent was established after they were sent, and not before. [05:37] <wtfmate1> I dont think I will be using intersango.com ever unless they send me free bitcoins. [05:37] <@BenDavis> lol [05:37] <wtfmate1> that's a good way to get new users....lol [05:37] <phantomcircuit> sigh [05:37] <wtfmate1> we should post this on the bitcointalk.org site and see what others think [05:38] <wtfmate1> watch the lulz catz start appearing Continues with: Quote [14:38] <wtfmate1> we should post this on the bitcointalk.org site and see what others think [14:38] <Geebus> I'm not trying to knock you down here dude... I'm just letting you know, I've been through all of this and wasted a lot of time and money trying to pursue legal matters regarding bitcoin, and it goes no where. [14:38] <BenDavis> I agree with that atfmate1 [14:38] <wtfmate1> watch the lulz catz start appearing [14:39] <BenDavis> "uups, I dun sent mah BTC to somezonez, an dey wasntz minez!!!!" [14:39] <wtfmate1> 511 btc is enough to put a small startup out of business [14:40] <Geebus> if you had ANY user send you back BTC after accidentally sending them, you should consider yourself a lucky man [14:41] <Geebus> shit, 511 BTC is like, 2 months salary for me [14:41] <wtfmate1> more like 3 for me [14:43] <Geebus> phantomcircuit: I'll help you out... I'll send you 1BTC for every law you can actually show verifiable text of that he broke by receiving them without ever stealing anything from you. [14:43] <BenDavis> thats a good deal [14:44] <Geebus> I'll sweeten the deal... 1 BTC for every US law, and 0.5 for laws from other countries. [14:45] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, no thanks [14:46] <Geebus> Just trying to be charitable. [14:48] <phantomcircuit> wtfmate1, ps https://blockexplorer.com/address/1Ga2AnjMgiGdCPy3MfGeBpirfrVJ9MNR5J [14:48] <wtfmate1> so you have 0 btc... [14:48] <wtfmate1> ? [14:48] <wtfmate1> what? [14:48] <Geebus> That looks insolvent to me. lol j/k [14:50] <wtfmate1> is that a donation address to get pittycoins back or something?? lol [14:51] <phantomcircuit> no just wait [14:51] <phantomcircuit> proof it was empty first [14:51] <wtfmate1> lol ok [14:52] <phantomcircuit> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/#c337e8dfcb28394c0a41a85fd70a3d9aed66af7059092bdcc44a5fcf69fa193a [14:52] <phantomcircuit> id say we're plenty solvent [14:53] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, well since you've made your position clear i will be making everything that's occurred public [14:53] <wtfmate1> 5865.33254933, nice. In that case, can I have 511 btc if I promise to send them back? [14:53] <BenDavis> Ok. But I still do not know what you are talking about [14:54] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, if you dont think it's illegal than why bother denying it? [14:54] <BenDavis> I just chat here ... no clue what BTC is [14:56] <Geebus> Perhaps it's a different BenDavis? ...bitcoin is an anonymous currency. [14:57] <BenDavis> Is a pretty common name [14:57] <Geebus> Isn't there a clothing designer named Ben Davis? [14:57] <Geebus> I think I got some of those pants from Costco. [14:57] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, he's using the same ip address [14:57] <BenDavis> I understand tho Patrick. I would be pretty pissed if I made such an epic mistake like that. [14:58] <Geebus> http://www.techspot.com/news/43664-us-judge-an-ip-address-is-not-a-person.html [14:58] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, so his kid did it? [14:58] <phantomcircuit> yeah i dont think so [14:58] <BenDavis> Did what? [14:58] <Geebus> Someone on his wireless perhaps? [14:59] <BenDavis> I do have an open AP here [14:59] <BenDavis> lmfaooooo [14:59] <Geebus> Or maybe his ISP has dynamic IP pools. IPv4 addresses are in short supply. [14:59] <phantomcircuit> he's had the same ip for months [15:00] <BenDavis> I pee sometimes for months. [15:00] <Geebus> Well, he did say he has an open AP. [15:00] <BenDavis> Few beers and sheesh [15:00] <BenDavis> out like a river [15:00] <BenDavis> out like BTC coming from Patricks exchange [15:01] <Geebus> There's a new tagline for MtGox... "We may have gotten hacked, but at least we didn't just GIVE the bitcoins away." [15:02] <BenDavis> LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO [15:03] <phantomcircuit> well ill stop wasting my time [15:03:13 * phantomcircuit has left #bitcoinpool ("Leaving") [15:03] <BenDavis> lmfaoooooo [15:03] <BenDavis> what a douche [15:03] <BenDavis> Someone got really lucky tho... how cool is that [15:04:11 * wtfmate1 is laughing so hard he is crying >-) [15:04] <wtfmate1> LMAO [15:04] <BenDavis> that was EPIC comedy right there folks [15:15] <wtfmate1> http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/i-can-has-programming-language.jpg [15:15] <wtfmate1> LMAO [15:15] <BenDavis> LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOO [15:17] <wtfmate1> LMFAOOOOOOOO http://i51.tinypic.com/nlvcx3.png [15:18] <BenDavis> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!11!!11 [15:18] <BenDavis> is that my cat?! [15:18] <BenDavis> [15:19] <baggleboy> lol [15:19] <wtfmate1> oh my god [15:19] <wtfmate1> that is some funny ass shit [15:19] <wtfmate1> that just made my day [15:20] <BenDavis> me too bro [15:20] <wtfmate1> probably not as much as BenDavis though lol [15:20] <BenDavis> that was fantastic [15:20] <BenDavis> LOLOLOL [15:20] <BenDavis> I dunno what he talkin bout [15:20] <BenDavis> I dont mine I just hangout here [15:20] <BenDavis> [15:20] <baggleboy> lol [15:21] <baggleboy> !earned BenDavis [15:21] <BCP> BenDavis's earnings: Estimated: 1.18719980 Unconfirmed: 0 Historical: 24.28209418 Unpaid: 0 [15:21] <baggleboy> ahahah [15:21] <BenDavis> lolol [15:34] <baggleboy> Geebus, how much lose? [15:35] <Geebus> over the past year? ...probably 200 - 300 or so BTC. [15:35] <BenDavis> Good thing not 511 [15:39] <baggleboy> BenDavis, you not take bitcoin? [15:40] <BenDavis> No, I do not, in any way shape or form, take anyones bitcoins at anytime. [15:40] <BenDavis> Absolutely not. [15:40] <BenDavis> I do not know how to steal anyones bitcoins lol I am not that smart [15:40] <baggleboy> lol who has? [15:40] <BenDavis> I have no idea lol [15:41] <baggleboy> lol [15:46] <roflin> it looks shopped :> [16:15:52 * wtfmate1 has quit () [16:18] <baggleboy> BenDavis, why he think you??? [16:18] <BenDavis> I have no idea lol [16:27] <Optonic> at least we know now where not to exchange bitcoins [16:32] <BenDavis> lol yeha [16:32] <BenDavis> what an idiot ... [20:11] <Optonic> jeez, what's wrong with the world. no this not-known-before-exchange sends out freelancing warriors to shit on BenDavis [20:11] <Optonic> now this even [20:11] <Optonic> more important is when the next block is solved!!!111 [20:12] <Raiscan> hi guys, was just wondering why the JSON was frozen? [20:13] <ChemicalBro> whats this about bendavis [20:13] <ChemicalBro> whtd i miss... [20:15] <Raiscan> I was going to run some statistics tracking but it seems to just return the same value all the time atm [20:17] <Optonic> ChemicalBro: s/b accused him of "stealing" 511 BTC which the I-forgot-the-name-exchange allegedly sent to BenDavis on accident. BenDavis denies having received those BTC. [20:18] <ChemicalBro> hahaha. is there a thread going? [20:18:59 * phantomcircuit has joined #bitcoinpool [20:19] <phantomcircuit> Ben Johnson [20:19] <phantomcircuit> Just made 4 grand in 15 minutes. Legal. [20:19] <phantomcircuit> just an fyi [20:19] <phantomcircuit> he's a liar [20:19:07 * phantomcircuit has left #bitcoinpool ("Leaving") [20:19] <Optonic> ChemicalBro: shrug [20:19] <ChemicalBro> huh... [20:19] <Optonic> ChemicalBro: that was the guy accusing BenDavis of stealing. [20:20] <roflin> yeah now random hitman come in and quickstab him in irc... [20:20] <ChemicalBro> well if it did happen, wish it was my address it went to [20:20] <Optonic> ChemicalBro: [20:20] <black888> nevermind im not missing any payments [20:21] <Optonic> <child'svoice>but, but... you would be a thieve then...</cv> [20:21] <Optonic> me neither. everything is fine and good and whatever. [20:21] <Optonic> but nobody sent me 511 btc so far. not so good [20:22] <black888> whats your btc address [20:22] <roflin> just realized that 511 is 512-1 which looks like a for(i=0; i<somevalueat512; ++i) {sendbitcoin();} :> [20:23] <roflin> ah well a i=1 then :>

389

Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / bash script to download all mtgox trade history json data

on: August 25, 2011, 08:42:44 PM

Here's a simple bash script to download all trade history json data from MtGox. Update: Code: #!/bin/bash outputfile=data lasttrade=0 while test -n "$lasttrade";do wget --quiet https://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php?since=$lasttrade if test "`cat getTrades.php\?since\=$lasttrade`" != "[]";then cat getTrades.php\?since\=* >> $outputfile; echo >> $outputfile; lasttrade=`cat getTrades.php\?since\=$lasttrade\|sed "s/,/\n/g"\|grep tid\|tail -n 1\|cut -d ":" -f 2\|cut -d "\"" -f 2`; lasttradets=`cat getTrades.php\?since\=\|sed "s/,/\n/g"\|grep date\|tail -n 1\|cut -d ":" -f 2`; echo "$(date -d @$lasttradets) tid $lasttrade" else echo Finished fi rm getTrades.php\?since\=; done #!/bin/bash outputfile=data lasttrade=0 while test -n "$lasttrade";do wget --quiet https://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php?since=$lasttrade cat getTrades.php\?since\=* >> $outputfile; echo >> $outputfile; lasttrade=`cat getTrades.php\?since\=\|sed "s/,/\n/g"\|grep tid\|tail -n 1\|cut -d ":" -f 2\|cut -d "\"" -f 2`; lasttradets=`cat getTrades.php\?since\=\|sed "s/,/\n/g"\|grep date\|tail -n 1\|cut -d ":" -f 2`; if test -n "$lasttrade"; then echo "$(date -d @$lasttradets) tid $lasttrade"; fi rm getTrades.php\?since\=; done #!/bin/bash outputfile=output next=0 while test -n "$next";do wget https://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php?since=$next cat getTrades.php\?since\= >> $outputfile; echo >> $outputfile; next=`echo "$(cat getTrades.php\?since\=\|sed "s/,/\n/g"\|grep tid\|tail -n 1\|cut -d ":" -f 2\|cut -d "\"" -f 2)+1"\|bc`; rm getTrades.php\?since\=; done Here is a list of urls to download trade history from mtgox from very beginning tid 1 until tid 1314315710505672 with timestamp 1314315710 (Fri Aug 26 01:41:50 CEST 2011), each returning 100 results: http://pastebin.com/pmhMXZJu download json data from torrent: http://www.wupload.com/file/124870046/mtgox_trades_json.ts-1314316120.js.torrent Also see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API#0.2Fdata.2FgetTrades.php

390

Other / Meta / Re: Bitcoin forks - Create new forum board?

on: August 22, 2011, 02:54:08 PM

More like free advertisement for bitcoin to show that it encompasses its children forked genesis key blockchains and that those blockchains are based off bitcoin. Although, I suppose bitcoiners (or a couple of them anyway) would rather segregate maybe?

391

Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: libbitcoin

on: August 22, 2011, 02:21:55 AM

Hey, genjix here, posting under someone else's account It's in the repo, https://gitorious.org/libbitcoin/libbitcoin/blobs/master/bitcoin.sql

392

Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / fast difficulty calculation from bits

on: August 20, 2011, 12:28:28 PM

Hey genjix here, I'm posting as mizerydearia since I'm not logged in ... blaa blaa

Here;s a fast way to calculate difficulty. It uses a modified taylor series for the logarithm (you can see tutorials on flipcode and wikipedia) and relies on logs to transform the difficulty calculation:

Code:

#include <iostream>
#include <cmath>

inline float fast_log(float val)
{
   int * const exp_ptr = reinterpret_cast <int *>(&val);
   int x = *exp_ptr;
   const int log_2 = ((x >> 23) & 255) - 128;
   x &= ~(255 << 23);
   x += 127 << 23;
   *exp_ptr = x;

   val = ((-1.0f/3) * val + 2) * val - 2.0f/3;
   return ((val + log_2) * 0.69314718f);
} 

float difficulty(unsigned int bits)
{
    static double max_body = fast_log(0x00ffff), scaland = fast_log(256);
    return exp(max_body - fast_log(bits & 0x00ffffff) + scaland * (0x1d - ((bits & 0xff000000) >> 24)));
}

int main()
{
    std::cout << difficulty(0x1b0404cb) << std::endl;
    return 0;
}

Unfortunately I don't have much use for it in libbitcoin. Maybe some miner will find it useful.

To see the math to go from the normal difficulty calculations (which require large big ints bigger than the space in any normal integer) to the calculation above, here's some python:

Code:

import decimal, math
l = math.log
e = math.e

print 0x00ffff * 2**(8*(0x1d - 3)) / float(0x0404cb * 2**(8*(0x1b - 3)))
print l(0x00ffff * 2**(8*(0x1d - 3)) / float(0x0404cb * 2**(8*(0x1b - 3))))
print l(0x00ffff * 2**(8*(0x1d - 3))) - l(0x0404cb * 2**(8*(0x1b - 3)))
print l(0x00ffff) + l(2**(8*(0x1d - 3))) - l(0x0404cb) - l(2**(8*(0x1b - 3)))
print l(0x00ffff) + (8*(0x1d - 3))*l(2) - l(0x0404cb) - (8*(0x1b - 3))*l(2)
print l(0x00ffff / float(0x0404cb)) + (8*(0x1d - 3))*l(2) - (8*(0x1b - 3))*l(2)
print l(0x00ffff / float(0x0404cb)) + (0x1d - 0x1b)*l(2**8)

Cya

update: Links added by miz

393

Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin is incorruptible?

on: August 18, 2011, 02:07:12 AM

Since bitcoin is peer-to-peer, does that fact alone 100% guarantee that it is incorruptible? Is it possible in any way or fashion to corrupt bitcoin? > wardearia it is "possible" but not easy > define corrupt Kardos, Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain. from google results > sigh, i mean in your context I have no idea how to define it in my context > well theres plenty of scammers turning up > bitcoin itself is not an intelligent entity that can become corrupted by greed that last line alone seems to imply such a sentence is erroneous - What seems like a more accurate way to rephrase the statement: Quote Bitcoin is the world's first decentralized means of payment and as such incorruptible.

394

Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / (SOLVED) ld: cannot find -lboost_filesystem

on: August 16, 2011, 12:27:09 PM

Trying to compile (manually) bitcoind I get this error

Code:

g++ -O2 -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wformat -g -D__WXDEBUG__ -DNOPCH -DFOURWAYSSE2 -DUSE_SSL -I/usr/include/boost-1_42 -I/usr/include/db4.8 -I/usr/lib64/boost-1_42 -I/usr/lib64 -o i0coind obj/nogui/util.o obj/nogui/script.o obj/nogui/db.o obj/nogui/net.o obj/nogui/irc.o obj/nogui/keystore.o obj/nogui/main.o obj/nogui/wallet.o obj/nogui/rpc.o obj/nogui/init.o obj/nogui/crypter.o cryptopp/obj/sha.o cryptopp/obj/cpu.o -I/usr/include/db.48 -I/usr/include/boost-1_42 -I/usr/include/db4.8 -I/usr/lib64/boost-1_42 -I/usr/lib64 -Wl,-Bstatic -l boost_system -l boost_filesystem -l boost_program_options -l boost_thread -l db_cxx -l ssl -l crypto -Wl,-Bdynamic -l gthread-2.0 -l z -l dl -l pthread
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.6.1/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [i0coind] Error 1

related: http://bitcointalk.org/?topic=636.0

Change

Code:

-Wl,-Bstatic \

Code:

-Wl,-Bdynamic \

395

Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / mobile bitcoin atm

on: August 14, 2011, 12:07:00 AM

Something like this as a mobile bitcoin atm would be awesome!

396

Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork

on: August 13, 2011, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: ctoon6 on August 13, 2011, 07:21:38 AM no matter what you tell them, they don't listen Is there need for a concerted effort to manipulate or control behavior of one or more existences perhaps due to unacceptance of such activities, participations or behaviorisms by yourself or anyone else? e.g. "be, do, think, etc. like us (read 'me') or we (each individual to various extents/degrees, eventually 'giving up' or whatever) will annoy, nag, pester you neverendingly/indefinitely?" Is this normal? Do you liek cake? If there is such a need, then by all means, continue propagating and repeating such efforts similarly as everyone else continues propagating their own efforts and natural phenomenon will continue as usual. hint: many people still blatantly refuse and strongly oppose, fight and resist bitcoin, decrying it as scam, etc. Effort towards providing informations to them is similarly obnoxiously annoying and overwhelmingly useless. If they do not understasnd or accept initially, then repeating yourself may result in establishing strong conflict and negative energy/experiences with such individuals. Let them fail, die, make poor choices, etc. One person's trash is another's treasure. One person's scam is another's (opposite of scam).

397

Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: IxCoin is a SCAM

on: August 12, 2011, 08:52:32 PM

I'm quite surprised the original poster referenced it as IxCoin instead of the correct Ixcoin, just like Bitcoin is correct and BitCoin is incorrect. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, wtfevarz!

398

Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: IxCoin is a SCAM

on: August 12, 2011, 04:27:52 PM

re: creator as early adopter from get go, I just now thought of this: nasakioto generated first 6,000 blocks and then released the blockchain publicly, which at the time of release had a difficulty of 1. How can 6,000 blocks be generated and still offer difficulty of 1? Perhaps that means each 2016 blocks generated must be generated at 2 weeks or longer to preserve difficulty of 1. Thus, 6,000 blocks (or 3 sets of 2016 blocks) must be generated in 6 weeks or 1.5 months. He ended up generating 6,000 blocks in 3.5 months.

399

Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: IxCoin is a SCAM

on: August 12, 2011, 03:38:56 PM

Perhaps modify the hardcoded limit to 42 million and push a new version? Scam is no longer? Also, Quote re: creator as early adopter from get go, I just now thought of this: nasakioto generated first 6,000 blocks and then released the blockchain publicly, which at the time of release had a difficulty of 1. How can 6,000 blocks be generated and still offer difficulty of 1? Perhaps that means each 2016 blocks generated must be generated at 2 weeks or longer to preserve difficulty of 1. Thus, 6,000 blocks (or 3 sets of 2016 blocks) must be generated in 6 weeks or 1.5 months. He ended up generating 6,000 blocks in 3.5 months.

400

Other / Meta / Re: Bitcoin forks - Create new forum board?

on: August 11, 2011, 08:10:49 AM

Quote from: John Smith on August 11, 2011, 08:08:39 AM Why does everything need to be heaped into this forum? It is already too busy. IMO, forks should make their own forums. If you can make a genesis block, you can certainly install a PHPBB (or similar) instance... See http://ixcoin.org/forum/ The reason for mention on this forum about a bitcoin fork is the same reason many businesses, organizations and many other affiliations/associations with bitcoin (in any way) are referenced directly at the source as an extra opportunity to spread the word and propagate such information.

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