You will find that if you look at applications written in C they are built up using layers of libraries. By the time you get to what might be called the business logic (although a "business" might not necessarily be involved -- this is a term of art) you are barely using C any more, just a bunch of library calls where almost every language ends up being almost identical.
I'm not a fan C for larger team projects because the process of building up your own libraries on top of libraries is difficult to express in a constant and reliable way. Not impossible, but difficult. It tends to work better for a project written and maintained by one person or perhaps a very small group
Good point that due to the lack of a modern type system, C is really limited on the orthogonal coding, modules aspect. Intermixing/interopting with Javascript via Emscripten makes this even more brittle. I think, though I'm not sure, that most C coding these days (which still seems to be quite popular) is indeed system programming, firmware for devices, performance-critical callouts from other languages (Python for example), etc. But I have few if any sources for that, and it may be completely wrong.
Well that seems to be true and my Github exemplifies me coding in C for those cases, but it would be better if I didn't have to add the thorn of C and FFI to interopt C with my other code. |
|
|
|
What about targeting Chrome NaCl? Maybe the languages you want to use don't support it as a target, which would mean an ugly intermediate step. It is not clear to me how you do anything else in a browser other than JavaScript, although maybe your target is your own client and not existing web browsers?
I want to replace the browser. Its time for the browser to die as an App platform. If you want a combination (i.e. compromise) of modern language features and maturity and platform support, it is probably hard to beat Scala overall, though you are stuck with JVM+JavaScript as targets I guess. You basically have to give up one or the other to move beyond that. Erlang is another one that seems to have a bit of maturity, but I haven't used it. Haskel seems very interesting but unusable in practice given the lack of platform maturity.
I've become convinced Martin Odersky doesn't understand that subclassing is an anti-pattern. I'm abandoning Scala. Edit: obviously open source because I can't (even if 100% healthy) code all that by myself. Edit#2: Last year Martin asked me to stop discussing my ideas on the Scala language google group about eliminating subsclassing. It appears he doesn't want to simplify by throwing away unncessary anti-patterns. The coming Scala 3 Dependent Object Calculus is about unification of subclassing with abstract types. Scala will forever be a complexity PITA. |
|
|
|
Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.
Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.
These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical: As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics. I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones. Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one: http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.htmlFor those who still think global cooperation isn't coming: |
|
|
|
The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.
Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum. He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK. Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money. And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out. If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal. And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago. WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more 
Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.
Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.
These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical: As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics. I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones. Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one: http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.htmlFor those who still think global cooperation isn't coming: |
|
|
|
The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.
Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum. He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK. Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money. And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out. If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal. And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago. WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more
Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.
Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.
These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical: As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics. I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones. Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one: http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.htmlFor those who still think global cooperation isn't coming: |
|
|
|
The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.
Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum. He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK. Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money. And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out. If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal. And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago. WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more
Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.
Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.
These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical: As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics. I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones. Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one: http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.htmlFor those who still think global cooperation isn't coming: |
|
|
|
The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.
Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum. He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK. Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money. And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out. If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal. And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago. WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more |
|
|
|
Private discussion about my programming language post above: Well you mentioned 'apps' there, I'm not sure what is meant by that but if it means something created by a large community of not necessarily experts, many of which may be relatively simple, then JavaScript or something JavaScript-like is probably the way to go.
There is not really anything else that is popular enough that so many area already comfortable with it and accessible enough to a wide audience. Apple only got away with this for iOS apps (with Objective C) because iOS was an extreme hit product. Even then Android's use of better-known Java was probably a factor that helped it catch up in the app race.
But I don't know the context really.
Availability of libraries is critically important in current development. It is impossible to achieve good productivity in many current application spaces without being able to draw on libraries. Many of the minority languages just fail there in actual practice, whatever there design merits (making them largely at the hobby stage where people can continue to build libraries and hopefully make them useful). This applies especially to languages that aren't JVM based since native FFIs tend to be a huge PITA.
Regarding JVM unsigned, I thought Scala had unsigned, but I never looked that carefully? It is indeed a huge PITA in Java to do low level work because of that.
I was thinking more about technical feedback, than market adoption feedback. If you want to add that, that is welcome. Nevertheless, this is a good point obviously that I should also analyze. One of the very significant issues, is that I am very tired of coding in the languages which are shit. For example, I have become (at least initially) convinced that asynchronous concurrency model is superior to multithreading for most scenarios that I need to code, but Javascript such a PITA to code low-level with. I ran into this issue on the first attempt to start coding my crypto-currency in Node.js. I can code in mixture of C (or C++) employing Emscripten and Javascript, but there are still significant pain points and lack of unification. Also still need to use transcoders for some features in some browser versions on the client (for wallet code). If I switched to coding the entire thing in C++ to gain for example generics via templates, I lose elegant first-class functions and gain C++'s fugly complexity+corner cases, have to transcode with Emscription, and then don't have good debugging support because I can't test the C++ with Node.js without transcoding. I am also confirming from many cases, that subclassing appear to be an anti-pattern and that there is a lack of extensibility by the inability to emulate Haskell's orthogonal interface and data (i.e. Typeclasses and algebraic data types), yet we need also first-class unions and intersections to retain subtyping of them and the compiler needs to automagically code the mashups of the interface implementations for the intersection for each function. No language on earth appears to do this, and this afaics would radically improve modular, no-refactor extensible code. Garbage collection is another beast that impacts performance, and Rust's new paradigm for smart pointers looks like possibly a huge winner. No other language has that afaik. Regarding Apps, I need the compiler to be super fast and eventually ameniable to JIT compilation, because I want these Apps to run instantly as downloaded in real-time over the Internet (as opposed to installed). Yet these Apps (such as games) will still need low-level capabilities, so the issues of Javascript apply. Although many games are written in C++, C++ is a fugly PITA of a language and a complex compiler that afaik isn't that fast. Also we can forget JVM languages for this reason too; and although apparently Google has put a lot of effort into making Davlik fast and incremental compilation, it still sucks worse than Hotspot which also sucked for quick start compared to Javascript. Rust appears to have everything except the first-class intersections and also the compilation targets and modularity of compilation targets may be badly conflated into the rest of the compiler (haven't looked, but just wondering why the fuck they didn't leverage LLVM?). Technical thoughts in that context? As for adoption, as in all things if you create a significantly better mousetrap that is open source, then the resources come to you if it is needed by the market. If it is not very much needed, then creating a new language will fail. Rust appears to have at least two features which are significantly needed: 1. Higher performance compilation stage "smart" pointers to avoid GC without overhead and corner cases of runtime incremented/decremented smart pointers. 2. Eliminated subclassing, but unfortunately didn't enable subtyping via first-class intersections. I guess investigating the source code of Rust might be a next step, to see if it is good base to improve upon. Perhaps since they didn't plan to support first-class intersections and given they removed Typestate, their typing model may be a mess. And also the potential concern about the modularity of the compilation targets (and remember I am targeting quick start JIT eventually). |
|
|
|
That may be a small part of the reason but it isn't the main reason. The main reason is that the market cap charts are bullshit, and the volume ranking is just a better ranking. I'll elaborate on that a bit later.
Many of the coins highly ranked on the market cap list are there due to cornering of supply and an artificially supported but largely meaningless price, and not by organic market dynamics. The phenomenon is described nicely by r0ach here:
"The market cap will remain high, but the buy side will constantly wither away until the sum of the buy side is only 15 BTC (like NXT was a few months ago). This makes them "roach motels" where you're theoretically wealthy, but nobody can actually exit the coin at all." link
Now on why the volume ranking is a better one to use, take a look a the various metrics on coingecko. Compare Monero with Dash. The overall ranking is fairly close and their order often flips, but that is only because market cap is included in the ranking. If you look at the other components, Monero beats Dash on almost every single metric, from reddit posts to commits to Bing search results and of course volume. The main ones where it doesn't are the ones that are most easily subject to manipulation: Twitter followers and Facebook likes (both likely purchased).
tldr: Monero is currently the #4 or #5 cryptocurrency by valid rankings. |
|
|
|
Evan Duffield's qualities of enthusiasm, brilliance, and persistencescammer lead Dash Dalmation Deathstar Nation well by example
Correct. |
|
|
|
Back in '14 the "instamine-scam" narrative was about the dangers of instamine DUMPing on investors... Like investors would care about the dumping of thousands of coins
Not thousands, but millions. Investopedia 101 education: How can money be siphoned off? Miner fees?
Are you seriously admitting you are blind? 1. Selling the ICO/pre/instamine to you. 2. Using control of a significant portion of the coin supply (and thus perhaps 90+% of the exchange volume float) to buy coins from themselves, set fake bid/ask walls, and otherwise manipulate you into buying high and selling back to them low. Repeat & rinse. 3. Having some "governance" scheme wherein some staked nodes (e.g. Dash masternodes and Bitshares' DPOS delegates) pay out some of the created-out-of-thin-air coins for each block and pay them to the owners of these staked nodes, which are disproportionately those who control the coin supply from #2. And even paying some of these coins to the lead developers via "voted on projects" (and remembering who controls the staked nodes and thus who controls the votes).
Currently the narrative has shifted to "ohhh instaminers are bad because they are long-term HOLDers... they are incentivized by the evil MN system to HOLD", ahahaha... This stuff is getting better and better.
HODLers of masternode stake which pays out up to 50+% per annum ROI, which can be dumped on the market and/or increase masternode control to earn more coins to dump on the market. AlexGR please upgrade your arguments and logic first before posting. I already wasted far too much time on your trolling nonsense. |
|
|
|
oh dear, i dont think certain people are ready to move forward  Another clown, qwizzie, has been put on Ignore. |
|
|
|
I don't have a solution, but I'm hoping that we can collectively start thinking about a solution. Like I've said before, I don't understand the cryptography enough to understand why its difficult to view outgoing transactions without the ability to sign them.
Viewing the outgoing transactions would break the rings for others, not just own, by reducing the anonymity sets for example if the entity you provided the viewkey to was a very popular entity to provide viewkeys to. Other than that, I think it would be technically possible to make a viewkey for outgoing transactions by having two private keys and then proving in zero knowledge that the two ring signatures were equivalent, without giving up your private key which has power to spend your outputs. |
|
|
|
And you lied: (BTC, DASH, XMR and most likely a lot more cryptocurrencies out there)
fall under that "instamine" category.
Fucking liars. Additionally BTC and XMR don't have a masternode scam to print DRK to hand to insiders who use their instamine to stake masternodes. It doesn't cost anything ongoing to have masternode. It is print-money-out-of-thin-air scam. You Dash fuckers will never stop lying. |
|
|
|
to be honest i don't see any reason in your post that makes me not want to invest in altcoins.
If you are just in it for gambling, then okay admit you are addicted to a non-productive masturbation activity (which will end up defining your life if you don't get control of your addiction). But if you care about our BTC not being siphoned off collectively to scammers: This user sums up how I feel perfectly. In fact he explained it better then I ever could . The big bold red letters at the bottom hit the nail on the head. Edit: your investment money is being siphoned off into the pockets of the insiders of these coins. None of it is achieving any significant adoption.
Note some speculators buy every ICO (with a good technobabble story) they can knowing that someday the tokens will be pumped. This is not always profitable. I know someone who invested in Skycoin, Iota, etc.. and those bets haven't paid off yet. The developers of Skycoin and Iota have pocketed those funds. Ethereum wasted $18 million and didn't even solve the most basic issues. And you gambling addicts just gave them more $millions to waste. |
|
|
|
"Adoption-adjusted Market Caps" Itīs an eye opener for sure. The question for the future is which of it wonīt remain overpriced and largely useless dust.
|
|
|
|
I haven't even heard of blackcoin.  If you click to the original thread where that table was quoted from, you will see that I was not able to obtain the data for all coins, thus many are missing from the table that would be higher than Blackcoin. |
|
|
|
How can money be siphoned off? Miner fees?
Are you seriously admitting you are blind? 1. Selling the ICO/pre/instamine to you. 2. Using control of a significant portion of the coin supply (and thus perhaps 90+% of the exchange volume float) to buy coins from themselves, set fake bid/ask walls, and otherwise manipulate you into buying high and selling back to them low. Repeat & rinse. 3. Having some "governance" scheme wherein some staked nodes (e.g. Dash masternodes and Bitshares' DPOS delegates) pay out some of the created-out-of-thin-air coins for each block and pay them to the owners of these staked nodes, which are disproportionately those who control the coin supply from #2. And even paying some of these coins to the lead developers via "voted on projects" (and remembering who controls the staked nodes and thus who controls the votes). |
|
|
|
How can money be siphoned off? Miner fees?
Are you seriously admitting you are blind? 1. Selling the ICO/pre/instamine to you. 2. Using control of a significant portion of the coin supply (and thus perhaps 90+% of the exchange volume float) to buy coins from themselves, set fake bid/ask walls, and otherwise manipulate you into buying high and selling back to them low. Repeat & rinse. 3. Having some "governance" scheme wherein some staked nodes (e.g. Dash masternodes and Bitshares' DPOS delegates) pay out some of the created-out-of-thin-air coins for each block and pay them to the owners of these staked nodes, which are disproportionately those who control the coin supply from #2. And even paying some of these coins to the lead developers via "voted on projects" (and remembering who controls the staked nodes and thus who controls the votes). |
|
|
|
How can money be siphoned off? Miner fees?
Are you seriously admitting you are blind? 1. Selling the ICO/pre/instamine to you. 2. Using control of a significant portion of the coin supply (and thus perhaps 90+% of the exchange volume float) to buy coins from themselves, set fake bid/ask walls, and otherwise manipulate you into buying high and selling back to them low. Repeat & rinse. 3. Having some "governance" scheme wherein some staked nodes (e.g. Dash masternodes and Bitshares' DPOS delegates) pay out some of the created-out-of-thin-air coins for each block and pay them to the owners of these staked nodes, which are disproportionately those who control the coin supply from #2. And even paying some of these coins to the lead developers via "voted on projects" (and remembering who controls the staked nodes and thus who controls the votes). |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
