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1261  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: CoinAd.com, a Paid-To-Click that pays you in Bitcoins! on: September 28, 2013, 12:10:15 AM
Have you thought about allowing the option of cashouts via Inputs.io? You don't have to pay transaction fees, and your user does not have to pay high fees spending dust.
1262  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 12:03:26 PM
Quote
When money is presented in the form of IOU, there is always a risk of default. IOU money's value is always a percentage of the face value depends on the risk of the default. It does not have the same credibility as honest money like gold or bitcoin (no promise of future, works already paid)

The default Ripple client treats all IOUs for the same currency 1:1.
1263  Other / Meta / Suspicious forum accounts on: September 27, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
Check the last few pages of the Ripple giveaway thread.

2 post users:

aysha9853
ayesha98213
iram3133
iram91446
iram9151
nor9894
nor9753
nor9893
jeannemadrigal2
sana9821
sana98211
sana98210
sana6805
sana6801
schwag
saschaeh
saritMcxx
shayanb
ShindigZ
ShawnNoren
1264  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 08:44:20 AM
Which is it Joel are you working busily to comply with regulations or are you gonna let people do as they please?
There's really almost no conflict. Satoshi didn't violate any regulations when he made Bitcoin, so far as I know. Yet he built a system that lets people do as they please.


Satoshi also didn't create a centralized company to issue Bitcoin's adoption.

Nor premine even a single BTC. Like I said earlier, the genesis block was made intentionally unspendable.
1265  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 08:24:06 AM
If anyone is wondering why account freezing by banks/gateways is a big deal, look at these:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitspend-ceases-trading-due-to-frozen-accounts/

http://www.coindesk.com/commonwealth-bank-closes-coinjars-business-and-founders-personal-accounts/

http://thoughtsonliberty.com/biggest-bitcoin-account-frozen-by-the-united-states-government

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ke0ro/commonwealth_bank_of_australia_closes_personal/

Their Bitcoins were not affected. Now, if they held Ripple BTC instead of Bitcoins..
1266  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 08:19:37 AM
So if accounts can be frozen ....

remind me how this is any better than the current banking system that does that too?
Not accounts, balances. Nobody can freeze your account, and the freeze feature (if it was implemented) would only freeze a single balance, not an entire account.

In any event, here's a repeat of my explanation in case you missed it:

The "freeze" ability hasn't been implemented due to lack of demand. The restrict ability is implemented, but no gateways (that I know of, anyway) currently use it. These options have to be enabled for an account prior to any assets being issued by that account. So if a gateway chooses to use either of these features, everyone will know it before they choose to use that gateway. We don't want to tell other people how they have to use Ripple. We want to enable people to do what they want to do. Of course, we do want everyone to know what they're getting into and we want the rules to be hard to change after the game has started.

Would you refute my description of this feature as a visible backdoor, similar to Lotus Notes's NSA backdoor in certain versions which allows the NSA to crack it 16 million times faster than anyone else?

And for semantics, a freeze can freeze multiple balances, not just one.
1267  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Another BIG NEWS for the Ripple XRP!!! on: September 27, 2013, 08:13:42 AM
Need to pump some of your scamXRPs more, amiright?

Go to the BTC-e troll box.
1268  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need Free Bitcoins on: September 27, 2013, 08:07:42 AM
Come to coinchat.org Smiley
1269  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
If a gateway is forced to do so because of legal reasons, they most likely will stop honoring their old IOUs for redemption and create new IOUs.
That's certainly possible. Gateways are, like all other businesses, required to follow the laws of the jurisdictions in which they operate and must respond to court orders issued by courts of competent jurisdiction. The greater includes the lesser -- in theory a government could order a gateway to stop redeeming entirely. Basically, if you operate in an jurisdiction, the controlling government can do any terrible thing to you that you might imagine.
But bitcoin is innovative in the sense that accounts cannot be frozen. Perhaps you should take a read at the Bitcoin white paper, http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

You may point at XRP, however you've just answered that "the controlling government can do any terrible thing to you that you might imagine."

Ripple Labs may be forced to update ripple.com/client and the servers it connect to by a government.

Bitcoin core devs can only push out a new version of Bitcoin-Qt, yet nobody will migrate to it.

Right, they have to choose to use what the devs push out.
Meanwhile, for Ripple, the majority of the network / consensus uses ripple.com/client. You could build rippled and somehow get the majority of the users to switch, but..

1270  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 07:51:19 AM
If a gateway is forced to do so because of legal reasons, they most likely will stop honoring their old IOUs for redemption and create new IOUs.
That's certainly possible. Gateways are, like all other businesses, required to follow the laws of the jurisdictions in which they operate and must respond to court orders issued by courts of competent jurisdiction. The greater includes the lesser -- in theory a government could order a gateway to stop redeeming entirely. Basically, if you operate in an jurisdiction, the controlling government can do any terrible thing to you that you might imagine.
But bitcoin is innovative in the sense that accounts cannot be frozen. Perhaps you should take a read at the Bitcoin white paper, http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

You may point at XRP, however you've just answered that "the controlling government can do any terrible thing to you that you might imagine."

Ripple Labs may be forced to update ripple.com/client and the servers it connect to by a government.

Bitcoin core devs can only push out a new version of Bitcoin-Qt, yet nobody will migrate to it.
1271  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 07:45:10 AM
Quote
Gateways must of course follow all local regulations.

Possible KYC / AML support:

Restricted issuance of IOUs
    The gateway may restrict the accounts to which it sends IOUs. For instance, it may limit sending to those account for which KYC requirements have been met.
Restricted holding of IOUs
    The gateway may restrict hold of its IOUs to pre-approved accounts. See Authorized accounts
IOU freezing
    Not implemented. The gateway may freeze an account's ability to transfer their IOUs.

From the official ripple wiki.
The "freeze" ability hasn't been implemented due to lack of demand. The restrict ability is implemented, but no gateways (that I know of, anyway) currently use it. These options have to be enabled for an account prior to any assets being issued by that account. So if a gateway chooses to use either of these features, everyone will know it before they choose to use that gateway. We don't want to tell other people how they have to use Ripple. We want to enable people to do what they want to do. Of course, we do want everyone to know what they're getting into and we want the rules to be hard to change after the game has started.


If a gateway is forced to do so because of legal reasons, they most likely will stop honoring their old IOUs for redemption and create new IOUs.
1272  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 07:33:00 AM
Quote
Avoiding regulation is not one of our goals. In fact, we're working very hard to figure out how everyone from individuals to financial institutions can use crypto-currencies while complying with existing regulations


Is this not a deal breaker for anyone else? Shit this is the kinda problem I was talking about. You guys are hung up on lines of code, dude comes out and says this and all I hear is crickets

Just so I dont assume anything...what is your problem with it?

Quote
Gateways must of course follow all local regulations.

Possible KYC / AML support:

Restricted issuance of IOUs
    The gateway may restrict the accounts to which it sends IOUs. For instance, it may limit sending to those account for which KYC requirements have been met.
Restricted holding of IOUs
    The gateway may restrict hold of its IOUs to pre-approved accounts. See Authorized accounts
IOU freezing
    Not implemented. The gateway may freeze an account's ability to transfer their IOUs.

From the official ripple wiki.
1273  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and OpenCoin on: September 27, 2013, 06:56:07 AM
But isn't the entire ripple network based on trust of other users?

Saying if "they'll keep it going" is like saying that people will never be untrustworthy. Not to mention the large stash of "premined" XRPs you folks still hold and "promise" not to dump on the market. That involves trust too.

The IOU system is a flawed system with our current monetary system already. It almost sounds like you folks are mimicking the credit rating system to determine "trust" if I had to use an analogy.

Okay so it isn't...currently...decentralized. yet I keep hearing the sales pitch that it is. I was there at Bitcoin Conference in May where your own CEO who spoke on the alt-panel claimed it to be decentralized.

Has this mis-speak not  happened?

It's based on trust, but you're trusting Ripple for non-double spends, and the majority of users are trusting Bitstamp for BTC/USD/etc IOUs.
1274  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and OpenCoin on: September 27, 2013, 06:52:41 AM
If we shut down, the network will continue so long as people are interested in continuing it. If it solves real problems for real people, they'll keep it going. If not, what difference does it make? Avoiding regulation is not one of our goals. In fact, we're working very hard to figure out how everyone from individuals to financial institutions can use crypto-currencies while complying with existing regulations and working to prevent new regulations that stifle innovation.
Not really, most XRPs won't be distributed,  most people have not written down their secret keys (no matter what wording you use, users are stupid. source: inputs.io support dealing with users who didn't write down their recovery keys), ripple.com/client would be down, wallet blobs would be down, etc.
1275  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and OpenCoin on: September 27, 2013, 06:39:28 AM
Are you seriously saying that when OpenCoin unilaterally changed account reserve requirements, which is akin to Federal Reserve tampering with interest rates?
OpenCoin holds a majority of validators right now. I'm sure Satoshi made any number of changes to Bitcoin before it was open source. We genuinely don't want this power because others legitimately perceive it as a risk, and changing this is one of our priorities now. We designed the system to be decentralized and are working to get it there.

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Bitcoin will work if I have completely different nodes with someone else as long as we're on the same blockchain. It's not the same with Ripple.
So will Ripple. Nodes you connect to don't effect the data you see. You just need to be on the same ledger. I think our consensus scheme has a lot of advantages over Bitcoin's proof of work scheme, but one thing that is a disadvantage is that you need to maintain (or trust some other people to maintain on your behalf) lists of validators that you are willing to trust not to collude against you. We've been working on ways to make this as painless and secure as possible without compromising decentralization. It is a challenge.

Quote
Tell me how I can print 100 billion XRPs.
Tell me how I can choose the Bitcoin genesis block, mining algorithm, or reward schedule. These systems are built under some entity's control and then that entity releases it into the wild such that it can never be imprisoned again.


So Ripple isn't decentralized then?

I seem to keep hearing that it is from the people you work for and with. It almost seems like this topic is a moving target.

You guys really need to make some real clarity on the topic as well as others.

Currently I look at it as centralized given there is a company behind the ripple network. That company can be shut down or regulated as the powers that be see fit.
It's currently very centralized - especially with Ripple.com/client, the web light client used by >99% of Ripple users only trusting OpenCoin validators.

Ripple promises that they will decentralize the network, however I raise objections to if it's actually possible to have decentralization of the level of Bitcoin with Ripple's consensus model.
1276  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 06:08:29 AM
A standalone browser client would still need to communicate with a server, right? Only the server can choose validators / set UNLs.
The client does need to communicate with one or more servers (as do servers, of course). Currently, only servers have a set of chosen validators.

It's still early in Ripple's evolution. You can build software that uses the protocol and connects to the network that has any combination of features and capabilities that you want. We're not quite sure how people are going to wind up using it. One possibility is that people will run "thin servers" and connect a browser-based client to their own server. Another possibility is that people will run "heavy clients" that have a list of validators and act more like servers do (though probably only as observers to the consensus process). Another possibility is that Ripple will be invisible and people will use it indirectly through things like federation. We've designed the protocol and the data structures to be flexible enough to support fairly light implementations that can still implement their own UNLs. The reference client isn't there yet. There's still a lot of work to do. It's still early.

While this sounds promising, I still don't see how it can turn Ripple into decentralized rather than distributed. The consensus system requires people to have similar UNLs. Democracy is distributed, however the resulting government is not decentralized.
1277  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and OpenCoin on: September 27, 2013, 06:02:01 AM
I also suggest making the website accurate instead of misleading.

"Send money to anyone, anywhere in any currency"

You can't send any currency other than XRP. You can only send XRPs or IOUs.

"all payments are processed automatically without any third-parties or intermediaries"

Is a validator not a third party? A validator is not the sender or receiver, by definition it is a third party.

"And because Ripple is a distributed system, there is no single point of weakness or attack."

You admitted that's not the current state of Ripple, so the use of present tense is troubling.

"Most payment systems are controlled by for-profit organizations that charge buyers and sellers for the privilege of making payments. In contrast, the Ripple payment network is controlled by a free Internet protocol that can be used by anyone."

Unless international financial networks uses carrier pidgins, I believe they also use the internet. For profit gateways like BitStamp charge buyers and sellers for the privilege of making payments.
1278  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 05:47:56 AM
I think a little hard would be a severe understatement. 99% of your users use ripple.com/client, which does not allow choosing validator nodes. Will ripple.com/client ever come with support for choosing your own validators, and no defaults?
Anyone else can set up a client and server now. The problem is that a trojaned client could steal your secret. A standalone client (or browser plug in) would be great to have. Anyone who wants to can implement one, of course. I know we have one in our plans, but I'm not sure what the timeline is. Again, this is another place where we agree. These are risks, and we'd prefer people did not have to take these risks so we're working to reduce or eliminate them.

Anyone can just like you can become the president of the US if you're a US citizen and meet the requirements. Saying what is theoretically possible is irrelevant if practically it is never executed. There's actually significant vendor lock in at work here.

A standalone browser client would still need to communicate with a server, right? Only the server can choose validators / set UNLs.
1279  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc. on: September 27, 2013, 05:43:56 AM
Are you saying you people could ignore Ripple inc. If they made a change that people didnt like?
Yes. It would be a little hard right now because the infrastructure to make it easy to do that isn't complete yet. Effectively, the community would probably just have to agree on someone to replace us. Until someone else could execute a full decentralization plan.

But we're hard at work on the transition to greater decentralization. We have no wish to control or operate the Ripple network. We have no desire to own the network or the protocol. The reason it's important that we get this right is that we want it to be as impossible for some other entity to become a central authority controlling the network. When we fully let go, we need to make sure nobody else can grab on.

I think a little hard would be a severe understatement. >99% of your users use ripple.com/client, which does not allow choosing validator nodes. Will ripple.com/client ever come with support for choosing your own validators, and no defaults - like the EU Windows choose your browser screen?

The change process would be quite difficult too given ledger fragmentation / forking, and that's not to say you're still having to trust entities, instead of just trusting maths.
1280  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and OpenCoin on: September 27, 2013, 05:43:27 AM
I get your point

So does trusting the ripple network require the same trust as trusting the ripple currency?

edit- you where one step ahead of me. I see the answer is yes
Not really. You're just trusting validators not to collude against you. When you extend a trust line, you are trusting someone to hold money for you or owe you money.

Quote
Why if you can transact in the ripple network for any currency would the ripple currency itself ever become valuable and doesn't the business model require XRP to appreciate to become profitable?
The business model requires XRP to appreciate. Nobody would disagree that what we're trying to do is high risk. Success is definitely not guaranteed.

XRP is unique though. It's the only currency that can flow between any two parties with no trust path needed. It's the only currency in Ripple that has no counter-party. While other currencies can have transfer fees imposed on them by their issuers, XRP never has any transfer fee other than the transaction fee. We expect that people will make assets liquid on Ripple by making them liquid to and from XRP, and we expect that people who don't know what asset they'll need will tend to hold XRP.

Validators can cause you to lose money through double spending.

Another currency can impose a transfer fee which will be taken if you try to convert that IOU into Ripples.

Quote
As a practical matter no.  Every client by default comes set to trust Ripple, Inc.  A significant portion of the network will never change that.   It is like saying if miners got everyone to agree could they change the block subsidy to 50,000 BTC.  Sure but it is never going to happen.

And even if you try to change that, you'll end up on a different ledger.
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