Bitcoinica - Advanced Bitcoin Trading Platform

[marked]

I have http://bitcoinica.com/trading on a bookmark page that I normally click to either immediately start, or if it is a new browser session go through the login page.

Recently with the new TOS, an accept / decline button confirmation for the TOS appeared. However I reclicked the bookmark thinking that I had missed and got another page instead (I had already looked at the ToS page earlier that day)

However I have not actually been able to get back to the accept / decline page.

What state would my account be in? and can you reset it so that I can click accept or decline if it is not already in an accepted state.

username on bitcoinica is marked

marked

[zhoutong]

I have http://bitcoinica.com/trading on a bookmark page that I normally click to either immediately start, or if it is a new browser session go through the login page.

Recently with the new TOS, an accept / decline button confirmation for the TOS appeared. However I reclicked the bookmark thinking that I had missed and got another page instead (I had already looked at the ToS page earlier that day)

However I have not actually been able to get back to the accept / decline page.

What state would my account be in? and can you reset it so that I can click accept or decline if it is not already in an accepted state.

username on bitcoinica is marked

marked

Log in, and then visit the TOS page and see if you have the accept buttons.

If no, I'll do a reset for you.

[mb300sd]

The check boxes for disabling email notifications doesn't seem to work. I've tried to turn them off repeatedly but they just reset...

[zhoutong]

It's not just you! http://bitcoinica.com looks down from here.

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/bitcoinica.com



so Z did steal the money and run away or something ??

It's just you. http://bitcoinica.com is up.

[marked]

Log in, and then visit the TOS page and see if you have the accept buttons.

If no, I'll do a reset for you.

Zhou,

the buttons don't appear on http://bitcoinica.com/pages/tos for me. However I appear to have a /pages/tos_agree in my browser history.

If you can reset it so that I can definitely click the agree, that would be great. Thanks.


marked

[jixapori]

Zhou,
I want you to reset my password, but you completely ignoring me. I tried to explain the situation using help.bitcoinica.com, one week passed already and I got no answer.
Please read this http://help.bitcoinica.com/discussions/problems/1143-zhou-tong-please-answer
Also please answer to my email NOT PM.

[zhoutong]

Log in, and then visit the TOS page and see if you have the accept buttons.

If no, I'll do a reset for you.

Zhou,

the buttons don't appear on http://bitcoinica.com/pages/tos for me. However I appear to have a /pages/tos_agree in my browser history.

If you can reset it so that I can definitely click the agree, that would be great. Thanks.


marked

Whoops, our backend doesn't allow us to change your agree/decline status, because that will have legal implications.

You can read the whole TOS and if you don't agree, you can just let me know. Otherwise, no action will be taken because you have the tos_agree access in your browser history, and we have logged that as well.

[mtbomb]

What governs the interest rate on bitcoinica? I see it's currently yielding 2.xx% which is seems low for something like this.

[davout]

It's not just you! http://bitcoinica.com looks down from here.

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/bitcoinica.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.0

[Otoh]

a couple of days ago finally got out of the nightmare scenario of being trapped in a large high $5s base price long position on Bitcoinica which would have been fine as my ZT price was in the $2s originally & I was happy to wait long term & could have kept it at 1:1 leverage np, until that was he unilaterally decided to start taxing long positions with swap charges, to me this is just Bitcoin wild west no rules rule - I'm waiting to see if his stated registration goes through because once it does I intend to claim back that swap money just removed from my account by changing without notice the conditions under which it was deposited & making my position long term untenable so that I had to close it for a big loss as I believe this sort of action is totally illegitimate in any jurisdiction

anyone else who's suffered because of this pse to let me know & we can coordinate to recuperate this blatant rip off with damages also for overall position loss if it hadn't happened once we were locked in

it's so nice atm to finally be out of that & tomorrow off for a long weekend without having to follow every price movement & the feeling of having trusted way too much money to someone who just makes the rules up to suit themselves as they go along, honestly I was amazed to get anything back out at all in that scenario - never again!

We can offer a refund if you were charged any swap for a position that you established before the rule change provided there is no new positions established after that. By continue using our service, you have already signaled the acceptance of the new rule.

Well this seems a good a time as any to claim your offer on this, yes I would like to be refunded for all swaps that I was charged on positions that I had before the rule change, you know what they are

Secondly I do not accept that by trying to get out of my position means that I accept your arbitrary change in the terms of service under which I deposited money with you, it is illegal for you to do so, therefor I hold you personally responsible along with any partners & new owners for the full amount of the swaps charged to me plus having to then liquidate my untenable position that you put me in, total loss getting on for $5,000

I was waiting for your registration to go through before pursuing this & then left it for a while so you could recover from the Linox hack but now events show it needs to be dealt with asap, so kindly confirm that you will stand by your word & refund what I have lost due to your actions

Many thanks, karma as I'm sure you are appreciating doesn't go away, it comes around & stronger each time until a just restitution is made, your call

[koin]

I was waiting for your registration to go through before pursuing this & then left it for a while so you could recover from the Linox hack

  whatevs.   no cuts.  back in line with the rest of us.

[Otoh]

I'm the founder of Bitcoinica. It has been featured by Hacker News,

Famous first words, ZT introducing Bitcoinica    this isn't actually quite as good news as you may think it was
Coming events cast their shadows before them

a couple of days ago finally got out of the nightmare scenario of being trapped in a large high $5s base price long position on Bitcoinica which would have been fine as my ZT price was in the $2s originally & I was happy to wait long term & could have kept it at 1:1 leverage np, until that was he unilaterally decided to start taxing long positions with swap charges, to me this is just Bitcoin wild west no rules rule - I'm waiting to see if his stated registration goes through because once it does I intend to claim back that swap money just removed from my account by changing without notice the conditions under which it was deposited & making my position long term untenable so that I had to close it for a big loss as I believe this sort of action is totally illegitimate in any jurisdiction

anyone else who's suffered because of this pse to let me know & we can coordinate to recuperate this blatant rip off with damages also for overall position loss if it hadn't happened once we were locked in

it's so nice atm to finally be out of that & tomorrow off for a long weekend without having to follow every price movement & the feeling of having trusted way too much money to someone who just makes the rules up to suit themselves as they go along, honestly I was amazed to get anything back out at all in that scenario - never again!

We can offer a refund if you were charged any swap for a position that you established before the rule change provided there is no new positions established after that. By continue using our service, you have already signaled the acceptance of the new rule.

Well this seems a good a time as any to claim your offer on this, yes I would like to be refunded for all swaps that I was charged on positions that I had before the rule change, you know what they are

Secondly I do not accept that by trying to get out of my position means that I accept your arbitrary change in the terms of service under which I deposited money with you, it is illegal for you to do so, therefor I hold you personally responsible along with any partners & new owners for the full amount of the swaps charged to me plus having to then liquidate my untenable position that you put me in, total loss getting on for $5,000

I was waiting for your registration to go through before pursuing this & then left it for a while so you could recover from the Linode hack but now events show it needs to be dealt with asap, so kindly confirm that you will stand by your word & refund what I have lost due to your actions

Many thanks, karma as I'm sure you are appreciating doesn't go away, it comes around & stronger each time until a just restitution is made, your call

Well Zhou Tong are you planning to honor your public pledge to refund me or are you not, I would really like to know - it won't just go away if you ignore it, instead it will escalate & follow you for the rest of your career & life, I'm asking you now for the third time & PMing this to you now as well.

Thanks,
Otoh

[Otoh]

yesterday I received this reply from ZT by PM which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting here:

You need to contact Bitcoinica Consultancy for this, and make sure you outline all the losses you incurred.

I started the swap system under Bitcoinica LP's approval and I was a full power representative at that time. However I did not have financial incentive - I can't touch a single cent of your swap money.

OK, now I need to think about this & how to proceed, I don't actually really even understand it, any helpful input would be welcome, many thanks ZT for responding, so it seems though that Bitcoin Consultancy which I now guess is called Bitcoinica Consultancy were not the owners & operators until after Zhou Tong's promise of the 22nd March 2012 to refund for swaps, but that he had already secretly sold Bitcoinica = Bitcoinica LP to T. Seale's investment group & was at that time effectively an employee of them

"Bitcoin Consultancy was first retained to perform a comprehensive security audit on March 27 and they became owners and operators of Bitcoinica LP on April 24. As General Partner, they have exclusive legal authority to manage the company." - Quoted from tseale speaking for the investment group that took over from ZT

[zhoutong]

yesterday I received this reply from ZT by PM which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting here:

You need to contact Bitcoinica Consultancy for this, and make sure you outline all the losses you incurred.

I started the swap system under Bitcoinica LP's approval and I was a full power representative at that time. However I did not have financial incentive - I can't touch a single cent of your swap money.

OK, now I need to think about this & how to proceed, I don't actually really even understand it, any helpful input would be welcome, many thanks ZT for responding, so it seems though that Bitcoin Consultancy which I now guess is called Bitcoinica Consultancy were not the owners & operators until after Zhou Tong's promise of the 22nd March 2012 to refund for swaps, but that he had already secretly sold Bitcoinica = Bitcoinica LP to T. Seale's investment group & was at that time effectively an employee of them

"Bitcoin Consultancy was first retained to perform a comprehensive security audit on March 27 and they became owners and operators of Bitcoinica LP on April 24. As General Partner, they have exclusive legal authority to manage the company." - Quoted from tseale speaking for the investment group that took over from ZT

I believe that when they take over the company, they should continue the unresolved disputes with customers. I designed the system because someone asked me to, and I gave the promise on behalf of the company because I had power to do so and it's consistent with Bitcoinica's usual dispute resolution attitudes.

If the amount is not large, I think they will honor. Otherwise you may need to explain very carefully to make it reasonable.

[Otoh]

yesterday I received this reply from ZT by PM which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting here:

You need to contact Bitcoinica Consultancy for this, and make sure you outline all the losses you incurred.

I started the swap system under Bitcoinica LP's approval and I was a full power representative at that time. However I did not have financial incentive - I can't touch a single cent of your swap money.

OK, now I need to think about this & how to proceed, I don't actually really even understand it, any helpful input would be welcome, many thanks ZT for responding, so it seems though that Bitcoin Consultancy which I now guess is called Bitcoinica Consultancy were not the owners & operators until after Zhou Tong's promise of the 22nd March 2012 to refund for swaps, but that he had already secretly sold Bitcoinica = Bitcoinica LP to T. Seale's investment group & was at that time effectively an employee of them

"Bitcoin Consultancy was first retained to perform a comprehensive security audit on March 27 and they became owners and operators of Bitcoinica LP on April 24. As General Partner, they have exclusive legal authority to manage the company." - Quoted from tseale speaking for the investment group that took over from ZT

I believe that when they take over the company, they should continue the unresolved disputes with customers. I designed the system because someone asked me to, and I gave the promise on behalf of the company because I had power to do so and it's consistent with Bitcoinica's usual dispute resolution attitudes.

If the amount is not large, I think they will honor. Otherwise you may need to explain very carefully to make it reasonable.

Many thanks, I shall explain it very carefully & reasonably, my previous posts & screen shots show how much I lost due to the T&C under which I had deposited money & opened positions with Bitcoinica being changed without notice to then make those same positions untenable, I have filled a claim for a token holding on the Bitcoinica site which I assume would be the first steps in establishing that my ID, email, password, etc is unaffected by the latest events - I appreciate your open & honorable manner of dealing with this & sincerely hope that those who asked you to implement the changes that caused me this unfair loss also recognize their responsibility to put this right, respect your promise at the time on their behalf to do so & that we can reach a fair & just conclusion here.

[Otoh]

a couple of days ago finally got out of the nightmare scenario of being trapped in a large high $5s base price long position on Bitcoinica which would have been fine as my ZT price was in the $2s originally & I was happy to wait long term & could have kept it at 1:1 leverage np, until that was he unilaterally decided to start taxing long positions with swap charges, to me this is just Bitcoin wild west no rules rule - I'm waiting to see if his stated registration goes through because once it does I intend to claim back that swap money just removed from my account by changing without notice the conditions under which it was deposited & making my position long term untenable so that I had to close it for a big loss as I believe this sort of action is totally illegitimate in any jurisdiction

anyone else who's suffered because of this pse to let me know & we can coordinate to recuperate this blatant rip off with damages also for overall position loss if it hadn't happened once we were locked in

it's so nice atm to finally be out of that & tomorrow off for a long weekend without having to follow every price movement & the feeling of having trusted way too much money to someone who just makes the rules up to suit themselves as they go along, honestly I was amazed to get anything back out at all in that scenario - never again!

We can offer a refund if you were charged any swap for a position that you established before the rule change provided there is no new positions established after that. By continue using our service, you have already signaled the acceptance of the new rule.

Well this seems a good a time as any to claim your offer on this, yes I would like to be refunded for all swaps that I was charged on positions that I had before the rule change, you know what they are

Secondly I do not accept that by trying to get out of my position means that I accept your arbitrary change in the terms of service under which I deposited money with you, it is illegal for you to do so, therefor I hold you personally responsible along with any partners & new owners for the full amount of the swaps charged to me plus having to then liquidate my untenable position that you put me in, total loss getting on for $5,000

I was waiting for your registration to go through before pursuing this & then left it for a while so you could recover from the Linox hack but now events show it needs to be dealt with asap, so kindly confirm that you will stand by your word & refund what I have lost due to your actions

Many thanks, karma as I'm sure you are appreciating doesn't go away, it comes around & stronger each time until a just restitution is made, your call

yesterday I received this reply from ZT by PM which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting here:

You need to contact Bitcoinica Consultancy for this, and make sure you outline all the losses you incurred.

I started the swap system under Bitcoinica LP's approval and I was a full power representative at that time. However I did not have financial incentive - I can't touch a single cent of your swap money.

OK, now I need to think about this & how to proceed, I don't actually really even understand it, any helpful input would be welcome, many thanks ZT for responding, so it seems though that Bitcoin Consultancy which I now guess is called Bitcoinica Consultancy were not the owners & operators until after Zhou Tong's promise of the 22nd March 2012 to refund for swaps, but that he had already secretly sold Bitcoinica = Bitcoinica LP to T. Seale's investment group & was at that time effectively an employee of them

"Bitcoin Consultancy was first retained to perform a comprehensive security audit on March 27 and they became owners and operators of Bitcoinica LP on April 24. As General Partner, they have exclusive legal authority to manage the company." - Quoted from tseale speaking for the investment group that took over from ZT

I believe that when they take over the company, they should continue the unresolved disputes with customers. I designed the system because someone asked me to, and I gave the promise on behalf of the company because I had power to do so and it's consistent with Bitcoinica's usual dispute resolution attitudes.

If the amount is not large, I think they will honor. Otherwise you may need to explain very carefully to make it reasonable.

Many thanks, I shall explain it very carefully & reasonably, my previous posts & screen shots show how much I lost due to the T&C under which I had deposited money & opened positions with Bitcoinica being changed without notice to then make those same positions untenable, I have filled a claim for a token holding on the Bitcoinica site which I assume would be the first steps in establishing that my ID, email, password, etc is unaffected by the latest events - I appreciate your open & honorable manner of dealing with this & sincerely hope that those who asked you to implement the changes that caused me this unfair loss also recognize their responsibility to put this right, respect your promise at the time on their behalf to do so & that we can reach a fair & just conclusion here.

The above is a summary of all posts on this matter, I am now sending this claim to verify@bitcoinica.com

On 13/2/12 I held a long position with Bitcoinica of 5,000 BTC @ a base price of $5.8540
My margin deposit was 4,000 BTC + $3,002 = $22,665 & the forced liquidation (ZT) price was $2.915

I entered in to this position in good faith under the terms & conditions as stated by Zhou Tong at the time & previously, I intended to hold this position for the very long term & even add more margin in order to the lower the already low ZT price, at the time Zhou Tong was posting in the forums with his ID still claiming to be the 'Founder & CEO of Bitcoinica' & purportedly acting as such.

Then on 16/2/12 Swaps interest was introduced draining away my margin balance by changing the TOS under which it had been deposited & hence making my position long term untenable - I tried all I could to get out of this blatantly unfair situation & eventually seeing no alternative I liquidated the position for a loss of $4,842 which at the time was 1,000 BTC, note that my margin was by then all in dollars as was my loss.

As I stated at the time on the Bitcoinica forum thread, which I will attach, to change the TOS under which money is deposited & positions opened without allowing customers to withdraw it all without any loss is both unfair & illegal so I would like to lodge a claim for full reimbursement of my funds that were retained by Bitcoinica due to this act, a total of $4,842 (or 1,000 BTC as you prefer).

Zhou Tong has already agreed in his post & reply to me of 22/3/12 to refund the Swap's interest which was $456 of the $4,842

I look forward to your acknowledgement of this claim at your earliest convenience & restitution in full asap.

Many thanks,

Otoh

[Otoh]

My claim dating from the Swap's interest introduction has been received, I would be happy to submit it to this arbitration service if Bitcoinica were willing to accept this, http://www.judge.me/