I'm giving 100% ROI away to anyone who thinks pirate is a fraud

[nimda]

"scammed" ... or "Owed a debt that will be chased"?

Nobody has sued or even found pirate, despite the number of people who claimed to know him.
Legal action against Bitcoinica has stalled (??), despite the owners' identities being known.
Nobody has sued Bitfloor, despite the owner's identity being known.

Nobody will sue MNW; nobody will break his legs either, because he's in South Korea.

[1714218065]

1714218065

[1714218065]

1714218065

[conspirosphere.tk]

Some people may have bought bad pirate debt etc to hedge against matt.  This was a serious scam ad should not be played down.  I did not bet with Matt, btw.

I don't think that anyone could be _that_ dense and would actually put their own money on such a chain of unlikely outcomes.  But I could be wrong.  Anyone want to step up and claim this mode of harm?

Yes, me. I bought some FOO.PPPPT at .50 BTC each (which are now worthless) just after my bet with Matthew, since I was seriously ready to pay in case of loss. Now prove me that Matthew would say that it was just a joke in case he won.

[Raoul Duke]

Nobody will sue MNW; nobody will break his legs either, because he's in South Korea.

He'll be in London Sep. 15-16. It's only a 2hours flight that costs €100 round-trip from most of Europe.
I wouldn't be so sure about that lol

[Gyrsur]

One important point to consider is what happened at the moment when MNW started to take new bets over the initial 10kBTC.
If I remember correctly that happened AFTER pirate first quite clearly announced he is having trouble paying.

I believe MNW was running an honest bet for 10kBTC until that moment and when it become clear that he cannot win the bet fair and square, he went insane and thought about this silly scam and started taking bets in excess of the 10k as a joke to himself knowing he would not be honouring the bet.

The important thing to consider is that I believe if pirate would not have announced his troubles and if pirate would have paid out, the bet would have remained capped to the original 10kBTC and MNW would have got 10k of real BTCs and he would had been harrassing everyone entered the bet to pay up real BTCs to MNW.

The real nature of the bet was really either 10kBTC for MNW if he wins or nothing to others if they win.

exactly, this means he has to pay 10k BTC. we have one debitor more in the line.

[Yolocoin]

There's an amazing amount of butthurt in this thread over a guy who did what he said he'd do according to the letter of his posts.  And now you guys are starting a witch hunt over him when he's not stolen anything from anyone unlike the several exchange "hacks" and investment scams?

Hell yeah, if governments ran on Bitcoin, MNW would definitely be in power because you guys are suckers.

[AndrewBUD]

Yeah.... I am starting to be afraid of you people...


He didn't take anyone's money..... He played a bad prank and lost a lot of respect.....

[elux]

One important point to consider is what happened at the moment when MNW started to take new bets over the initial 10kBTC.
If I remember correctly that happened AFTER pirate first quite clearly announced he is having trouble paying.

I believe MNW was running an honest bet for 10kBTC until that moment and when it become clear that he cannot win the bet fair and square, he went insane and thought about this silly scam and started taking bets in excess of the 10k as a joke to himself knowing he would not be honouring the bet.

The important thing to consider is that I believe if pirate would not have announced his troubles and if pirate would have paid out, the bet would have remained capped to the original 10kBTC and MNW would have got 10k of real BTCs and he would had been harrassing everyone entered the bet to pay up real BTCs to MNW.

The real nature of the bet was really either 10kBTC for MNW if he wins or nothing to others if they win.

My thoughts exactly.

[Gyrsur]

There's an amazing amount of butthurt in this thread over a guy who did what he said he'd do according to the letter of his posts.  And now you guys are starting a witch hunt over him when he's not stolen anything from anyone unlike the several exchange "hacks" and investment scams?

Hell yeah, if governments ran on Bitcoin, MNW would definitely be in power because you guys are suckers.

if pirateat40 did the full payment back I guarantee you MNW catch what he can.

[Frankie]

The only lesson you taught the community was that you are not a reliable business partner.

No, I'm pretty sure if anyone is learning a lesson right now, it's the loud mouths who were attacking Pirate investors for being "ignorant". I guess they too are getting a dose of their own medicine!

No, I'd be willing to bet (hah) that most of the people who got scammed where pirate investors looking to hedge.

Indeed.  It was pretty clear to me he wouldn't pay a loss from the get-go, and quickly became an obvious self-parody.

The people he hurt were the hedgers.

I suspect most of Team Ponzi realized that Matthew was more likely than not full of shit, but reckoned it was even less likely Pirate would pay back depositors. It would be rational to make a "bet" where you're 99% sure Matthew won't pay if you also think there's only a 0.1% chance Pirate will pay back his "investors." EV for such a bet is 1.009.

[Junko]

http://www.satoshisuperstars.com/matthew-n-wright/

“…Since I’ve come into Bitcoin I’ve taken every bit of aggression and doubt towards me as a direct challenge and gone from creating the first fighting game for Bitcoin to the largest incubator and support group Bitcoin has. Currently I’m head of the Bitcoin Magazine, the DCAO, co-owner of DialCoin, founder of Smallpla.net, founder of the (codename) BitDex (the world’s first dedicated handheld bitcoin transaction device), and am otherwise known as the biggest troll/devil’s advocate in Bitcoin…”

https://angel.co/matthewnealwright

Safebit
Bitcoin Magazine
Ellet Systems

http://www.facebook.com/matthew.n.wright

[conspirosphere.tk]

He didn't take anyone's money..... He played a bad prank and lost a lot of respect.....

He took advantage of his "bet" to dump his Pirate's debt while pumping up the price. So it's a double scam.

[Yolocoin]

He didn't take anyone's money..... He played a bad prank and lost a lot of respect.....

He took advantage of his "bet" to dump his Pirate's debt while pumping up the price. So it's a double scam.

How so?  No money changed hands as a result of MNW's bet, (other than the example 20BTC) so technically he hasn't stolen anything from anyone... UNLIKE the multiple ponzi schemes and fake exchange hacks.  If MNW didn't actually take anyone's BTC up front, how did he "dump his Pirate's debt"?

[tvbcof]

Some people may have bought bad pirate debt etc to hedge against matt.  This was a serious scam ad should not be played down.  I did not bet with Matt, btw.

I don't think that anyone could be _that_ dense and would actually put their own money on such a chain of unlikely outcomes.  But I could be wrong.  Anyone want to step up and claim this mode of harm?

How is it a "chain of unlikely outcomes"??

If pirate pays, you lose the bet with Matt but pirate paid back your (discounted) "bad debt" so no loss

If pirate doesn't pay, you win the Matt bet.  There is no additional risk to this hedging, the only risk is that Matt renigs on his bet.


Granted, this shows how ridiculous Matt's bet was in the first place, if he really thought pirate would pay he would have just bought bad pirate debt.  Thus why I wouldn't bet without escrow.

And I'll grant that a negative outcome was at least not a multiplicative function of two very very low probability events (that is, Pirate paying and Matt paying.)  This was my mistake when I formulated the text.

I do hold, however, that the only reason to give Pirate any of your money in the first place would be in hopes of being in early enough in his Ponzi to come out in the black.  And if that didn't pay off, the appropriate response would be to consider it a sunk cost and not try to remedy the situation by getting involved with Matt's fairly obvious scam.  And to hope to capitalize on things by jumping into the fray by picking up discounted Pirate dept after the fact would be silly beyond belief.

Of course it make sense to take Matt's bet with the intent if reneging in the unlikely event that it turns against one.  Makes sense in a numbers kind of way but not ethically (to me.)  Anyone who entered any of this idiocy with that intent deserves scorn...and loss of money if possible.

[conspirosphere.tk]

He didn't take anyone's money..... He played a bad prank and lost a lot of respect.....

He took advantage of his "bet" to dump his Pirate's debt while pumping up the price. So it's a double scam.

How so?  No money changed hands as a result of MNW's bet, (other than the example 20BTC) so technically he hasn't stolen anything from anyone... UNLIKE the multiple ponzi schemes and fake exchange hacks.  If MNW didn't actually take anyone's BTC up front, how did he "dump his Pirate's debt"?

Because with his "bet" he slowed the rate of decrease of the price of (phucked) Pirate's debt, just enough for him to sell the amount he owned with minimum loss for him and maximum loss for who took his words as serious. Clear enough? It's called "pump and dump".

[jwzguy]

I believe MNW was running an honest bet for 10kBTC until that moment and when it become clear that he cannot win the bet fair and square, he went insane and thought about this silly scam and started taking bets in excess of the 10k as a joke to himself knowing he would not be honouring the bet...

The real nature of the bet was really either 10kBTC for MNW if he wins or nothing to others if they win.

I think you're probably correct. If not, then his interview on DonkDownRadio is packed solid with coldly calculated lies.

Either way, the only lesson Matthew has "taught" anyone is that he is an untrustworthy scumbag. I don't see how anyone can do business with him in the future.

Matthew actually PMd me a few days ago to ask me to invest in some of his businesses. I told him that his first action should be to resolve his bet honorably, and then we could talk business. That wasn't what he wanted to hear.

Anyone defending Matthew n douchebag should absolutely listen to the radio interview

[kibblesnbits]

Yeah.... I am starting to be afraid of you people...


He didn't take anyone's money..... He played a bad prank and lost a lot of respect.....

Actually he set up a situation where either way he wins.  

Outcome 1: pirate pays, MNW wins 400,000$.
Outcome 2: pirate doesn't pay, MNW exposes loophole in bet (if you could even call it that)

You guys are extremely naive if in Outcome 1, MNW would have refused almost 1/2 million dollars.

All I know, if he pulled something like that in my neighborhood, bags of MNW would be sinking to the bottom of the Hudson right about now.  Hopefully people don't take BTC as serious as real money.

And to top it off, post pictures of yourself flipping the bird to people that believed the bet legit?  Not smart.  I don't know if it was ego it just got out of hand, but I wouldnt want a 400k debt floating around my head.  

* I did not bet with MNW or invest with pirateat40

[novusordo]

I didn't come to this thread to complain about Matthew's bullshit.

I didn't come to this thread to argue about Matthew's bullshit.

I didn't even come to this thread to discuss Matthew's bullshit.

I came to this thread to say one thing to Matthew:

You are below Atlas.

[nimda]

Yeah.... I am starting to be afraid of you people...


He didn't take anyone's money..... He played a bad prank and lost a lot of respect.....

Breaking windows is a bad prank which doesn't take people's money. Consider this scenario:
1. Investor sees this thread
2. Investor places bet for 50 BTC
3. Investor buys 60 shares of TYGRR-BOND-P for a total of 6 BTC
4. Matthew reneges on the bet
5. Investor is forced to sell his 60 shares at a loss (probably a loss of about 3 BTC)

[FLHippy]

with his "bet" he slowed the rate of decrease of the price of (phucked) Pirate's debt, just enough for him to sell the amount he owned with minimum loss for him and maximum loss for who took his words as serious. Clear enough? It's called "pump and dump".

I might have missed something, is there proof that MNW sold his pirate liabilities?

Also, this is the wild west... Almost all is fair in the bitcoin market... there are no laws against a pump-n-dump scheme thats for sure, there is no SIC to protect you.. Or any laws at all beyond simple fraud. Would you even want to get the government involved? And if you did... which government?
 
Bitcoin isn't real to most of the world, no one signed a binding contract. A forum post isn't going to provide the same protection for any perceived liabilities you take on like a proper contract will.

Stop feeling so hurt, ya big babies. Suck it up, move on, there is another ponzi scheme just forming.. You've still got a chance to be an early adopter! (HungerCoins anyone?)

[tvbcof]

Some people may have bought bad pirate debt etc to hedge against matt.  This was a serious scam ad should not be played down.  I did not bet with Matt, btw.

I don't think that anyone could be _that_ dense and would actually put their own money on such a chain of unlikely outcomes.  But I could be wrong.  Anyone want to step up and claim this mode of harm?

Yes, me. I bought some FOO.PPPPT at .50 BTC each (which are now worthless) just after my bet with Matthew, since I was seriously ready to pay in case of loss. Now prove me that Matthew would say that it was just a joke in case he won.

I have to admit that I was wrong.  About several things:

 - nobody would put actual money on such a thing

 - conspirosphere.tk seems like a pretty together sort of person.

My personal belief is that there is probably a 20% chance that Matthew would have exploited things for personal gain if he had the opportunity and about a 1% chance that he ever had any hopes of having such an opportunity.  But I have nothing but gut feelings to rely on here and these are worth very little.  I was wholly chumped by Bruce back in the day in terms of gauging his disposition though I never lost any money to him and the MyBitcoin scam nor was I even close due to how I conceptualize Bitcoin itself and handle my own financial matters.