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Author Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx  (Read 315719 times)
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April 25, 2013, 02:55:54 PM
 #1401


All of this is highly odd.

Given the profitability of this business, I'd expect the owner to be all over it, if not directly then via dedicated management who should be.
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April 25, 2013, 04:53:50 PM
 #1402

still have not heard any response from Evoorhees. Could he at least pop into the thread and say "Hey, I noticed that, fixing it now"?

The way I look at this is that the owner of a company does not need to explain himself towards shareholders.

Shareholders vote with their money. You like the company and management, buy the shares, you don't like?, sell them.

Sure, you can ask Erik to do this and that, but I think that's not helpful for you nor him. Erik is intrinsically motivated or he is not. If he's a good leader he will follow his own preferences, not others.


My personal opinion on the website url expiring is, well a management mistake. Though, a small one, since it had barely any impact on amounts of bets placed. 

If you set up things right, you can afford to manage it less later. I think that's what happening. And it's working. sdice continues to grow.
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April 25, 2013, 05:31:21 PM
 #1403

Part of this is the nature of the market infancy that we are in.  Despite the fact that "shares" have been sold, this is nothing like the major stock markets.  There is no accountability, nor recourse here, and we are basically all just private investors, this isn't really a publicly traded company in the traditional sense.

We signed up to pay EV directly, and in return we get some dividends from his business.  There is no board, we don't get votes, we don't even get an annual shareholders' meeting or detailed quarterly financial reports.  The SEC isn't checking to see where the revenue from these shares goes, and we don't know either.  EV could just be buying a ton of fur coats, I don't know.

Is he doing a bad job of dealing with "shareholders?" Unquestionably.  Is he doing a bad job of running his own company?  Probably.  Is there anything we can do about it?  Not really.

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April 25, 2013, 07:38:20 PM
 #1404

My personal opinion on the website url expiring is, well a management mistake. Though, a small one, since it had barely any impact on amounts of bets placed. 

Anybody think maybe it was a test to see how well the business would survive a government ordered shutdown of the website?  Wink

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April 25, 2013, 08:29:37 PM
 #1405

My personal opinion on the website url expiring is, well a management mistake. Though, a small one, since it had barely any impact on amounts of bets placed. 

Anybody think maybe it was a test to see how well the business would survive a government ordered shutdown of the website?  Wink
Bravo! You got a point...

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April 25, 2013, 11:37:48 PM
 #1406

My personal opinion on the website url expiring is, well a management mistake. Though, a small one, since it had barely any impact on amounts of bets placed.  

Anybody think maybe it was a test to see how well the business would survive a government ordered shutdown of the website?  Wink

Yeah, I was actually very impressed to see the bets continue to roll in. Ca$hing  Grin

Though, I highly doubt it will survive a government attack, since in contrast to bitcoin, it depends on a single, or serveral, persons.
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April 26, 2013, 10:28:29 AM
 #1407

Well this is quite astonishing.  That Erik should see fit to effectively abandon his creation, as is evidenced in the last 7 weeks of this thread, and despite the fact it is still printing a reasonable amount of money, is incredible.

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

I posted about my valuation thoughts before.  But I never suspected I'd see it lose value through abandonment in this way.  We can disagree about valuation, and I always said my valuation P/E was 2 or 3, but this is just ... very surprising.

Fancy letting the domain expire.  That tells you the "representatives" (90% Erik) of the "thing" that is Satoshidice don't really give a shit; they've made enough money that other sexier things are now getting their attention, and you paid them the BTC, and they're doing just fine thank you very much.  And you the SD "share"holders are left swinging in the wind.

I thought it'd turn out badly but not in this way.

Did anyone mention "Feedzebirds"?  Another example I think.  Buyer beware.
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April 26, 2013, 12:28:31 PM
 #1408

Has anyone PMed evoorhees? I can't believe he or someone who works for him hasn't posted a single reply to this thread lately..

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April 26, 2013, 12:31:54 PM
Last edit: April 26, 2013, 12:53:33 PM by FTWbitcoinFTW
 #1409

Well this is quite astonishing.  That Erik should see fit to effectively abandon his creation, as is evidenced in the last 7 weeks of this thread, and despite the fact it is still printing a reasonable amount of money, is incredible.

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

I posted about my valuation thoughts before.  But I never suspected I'd see it lose value through abandonment in this way.  We can disagree about valuation, and I always said my valuation P/E was 2 or 3, but this is just ... very surprising.

Fancy letting the domain expire.  That tells you the "representatives" (90% Erik) of the "thing" that is Satoshidice don't really give a shit; they've made enough money that other sexier things are now getting their attention, and you paid them the BTC, and they're doing just fine thank you very much.  And you the SD "share"holders are left swinging in the wind.

I thought it'd turn out badly but not in this way.

Did anyone mention "Feedzebirds"?  Another example I think.  Buyer beware.

100% FUD
How can you think this shit ?
He follow his project every single day.
Like anybody involved in a 1M$+  project...

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.
it has lots of buttery taste..
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April 26, 2013, 12:51:17 PM
 #1410

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

Here's the deal: all other assets listed everywhere else either claim or pretend to claim whatever to you. Each and every one such other asset then breaches that claim, when push comes to shove.

You are free to take as much time as you wish to learn this lesson, but eventually you will have to come to the realization that there's exactly two types of people in this world: those who promise exactly what can be enforced no matter what you do, and those who promise whatever you wish with no intention of ever living up to it. Which of these you favor will decide whether you're poor or not. This irrespective of whether you know it or not, whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not.

Such is life, take your time.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
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April 26, 2013, 01:54:59 PM
 #1411

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

Here's the deal: all other assets listed everywhere else either claim or pretend to claim whatever to you. Each and every one such other asset then breaches that claim, when push comes to shove.

You are free to take as much time as you wish to learn this lesson, but eventually you will have to come to the realization that there's exactly two types of people in this world: those who promise exactly what can be enforced no matter what you do, and those who promise whatever you wish with no intention of ever living up to it. Which of these you favor will decide whether you're poor or not. This irrespective of whether you know it or not, whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not.

Such is life, take your time.
I'm waiting for the bit where you point out where I got it wrong.  Where you point out those feeling shafted haven't really been shafted.  Take your time.
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April 26, 2013, 04:56:50 PM
 #1412

Agreed with zebedee.

Maybe behind the scenes work IS being done (intangible work?).
What frustrates me, is that as a BUSINESS, evorhees ought to know by know that transparency, or some semblance of transparency is really great, particularly for shareholders.
If you can just come in here and remind people that you're alive, and the project has your attention, that's all we ask.  Any thing more is a bonus.

When things go awry, come and tell us why.  When I buy into a company, that is EXACTLY why I do it.  I expect something in the way of explanations of the company's direction.
In this particular case; since I purchased S.DICE shares, I have seen nothing of the sort.  Just silence.  A few times evorhees made a post to defend himself, but never in relation to Satoshi Dice, the company.

Evorhees, why not get a PR rep?  Maybe even converse with dooglus and come up with a solution to your #1 problem that is communicating.  It's a simple fix, one that will be met (I imagine) with praise from the likes of us (your shareholders).

Cheers
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April 26, 2013, 05:38:05 PM
 #1413

We signed up to pay EV directly, and in return we get some dividends from his business.  There is no board, we don't get votes, we don't even get an annual shareholders' meeting or detailed quarterly financial reports.  The SEC isn't checking to see where the revenue from these shares goes, and we don't know either.  EV could just be buying a ton of fur coats, I don't know.

What do you mean with 'revenue from the shares', the shares Erik owned and sold to others? The shares you own and sell to others? Or the revenue/profits the company makes?

Why is it important that we know what EV does with the money he gets from selling his shares?
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April 26, 2013, 05:44:40 PM
 #1414

Well this is quite astonishing.  That Erik should see fit to effectively abandon his creation, as is evidenced in the last 7 weeks of this thread, and despite the fact it is still printing a reasonable amount of money, is incredible.

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

I posted about my valuation thoughts before.  But I never suspected I'd see it lose value through abandonment in this way.  We can disagree about valuation, and I always said my valuation P/E was 2 or 3, but this is just ... very surprising.

Fancy letting the domain expire.  That tells you the "representatives" (90% Erik) of the "thing" that is Satoshidice don't really give a shit; they've made enough money that other sexier things are now getting their attention, and you paid them the BTC, and they're doing just fine thank you very much.  And you the SD "share"holders are left swinging in the wind.

I thought it'd turn out badly but not in this way.

Did anyone mention "Feedzebirds"?  Another example I think.  Buyer beware.

How do you know that the shares are going down in value due to bad management?

Are the shares even going down in value?

Why do you buy when what is offered is not what you like? (mpex, sdice)

Did you take your own advice 'buyer beware'? If yes, how?
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April 26, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
 #1415

Here is what I see happening.

From a positive angle:

You buy something, sdice, and you try to raise it's value by complaining to management what they should do.

How is that working for you?


From a negative angle:

You did not buy something, sdice, and try to lower it's value by pointing out the errors the company makes.

How is that working for you?

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April 26, 2013, 08:24:13 PM
 #1416

Evorhees, why not get a PR rep?  Maybe even converse with dooglus and come up with a solution to your #1 problem that is communicating.  It's a simple fix, one that will be met (I imagine) with praise from the likes of us (your shareholders).

Not really my strong point, communication.

It just illustrates how poor the official SD communication has been if people think having me as PR would be an improvement!  Smiley

Just-Dice                 ██             
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April 26, 2013, 09:48:25 PM
 #1417

What frustrates me, is that as a BUSINESS, evorhees ought to know by know that transparency, or some semblance of transparency is really great, particularly for shareholders.

EV has been here long enough, so I presume this is something he understand well.

With that in mind, my guess is that there's something going on that a) consumes 100% of his time, b) could be detrimental to the business if brought to the public's attention without first being resolved, c) received advice to temporarily cease communication (such as what happened with Nefario and GLBSE), or d) a mix of any or all of these situations (as well as others I may have missed).

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April 26, 2013, 10:03:40 PM
 #1418

Agreed with zebedee.

Maybe behind the scenes work IS being done (intangible work?).
What frustrates me, is that as a BUSINESS, evorhees ought to know by know that transparency, or some semblance of transparency is really great, particularly for shareholders.
If you can just come in here and remind people that you're alive, and the project has your attention, that's all we ask.  Any thing more is a bonus.


Hey all, I apologize for my absence on the forum. I am indeed alive and well, and I am indeed moving forward with SD development.

- I am no longer employed with BitInstant, but have joined Ira Miller (who is also no longer with BI) to expand and grow Coinapult. More details on this in the future. Coinapult and BitInstant are strong business partners with a great relationship, but we needed to be separate entities, with Coinapult HQ'd in Panama for a number of reasons. So yes this means that I am not a US resident anymore.

- I'm still in the process of getting legal advice and working out the corporate structure for the SD entity going forward. I wish everything was as simple and elegant as Bitcoin itself, but hopefully this groundwork will set the game up nicely for the future.

- I've hired a full time developer and admin for SD, who started on the 15th of April. He's been building test servers, learning the system from the prior admin (fireduck, who is staying on to consult in various ways since he's done a great job with security). I've also hired a manager who has significant gaming industry experience. He'll be taking over my role over time so that my busyness is not adversely affecting the site.

- The satoshidice.com domain had expired several days ago (thought it was auto-renewed but clearly not). Problem was sorted immediately and no lingering issues there.

- The developer's main initial project is undisclosed right now for competitive reasons, but I hope to have it ready in a month.

- SatoshiDice is a leading sponsor of the Conference in San Jose next month. Look for considerable brand exposure there.

- I am quite satisfied with SD's handling of attempted double-spend attacks. This took some work to fine-tune, and we continue to monitor it, but it's a well-contained issue at the moment.

- I do not actively monitor this thread, though I probably should. I apologize.

- I agree SD needs a formal PR/customer service rep. I will work on this. If any of you think you'd be good for this role, please contact me on skype. You cannot be a US resident.

- To those of you who have contacted me to convey potential security issues or have other types of recommendations, thank you sincerely. It is inspiring every day to be part of this community that continually, and charitably, builds and improves the various projects and companies that constitute Bitcoin. This movement gets stronger every day.

- I've never been more bullish on Bitcoin. Things are getting out of control, in a good way Wink

As always, people are welcome to contact me via email or skype (skype is preferred). My skype ID is the same as my forum name.

Kind regards,
-Erik




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April 26, 2013, 10:21:46 PM
 #1419

Erik, I am going to go ahead and say that this was overdue, but thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.

Have you considered a mailing list for shareholders, or some method of pushing out communications?  When the homepage for the site goes down, a week or two is a long time to wait for any information.
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April 26, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
 #1420

Erik, I am going to go ahead and say that this was overdue, but thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.

Have you considered a mailing list for shareholders, or some method of pushing out communications?  When the homepage for the site goes down, a week or two is a long time to wait for any information.

I would love for MPEx to add a feature that enables an asset owner to send simple, occasional messages to the shareholders (maintains anonymity and guarantees that only shareholders get access).

Please put (polite) pressure on Mircea to consider improving the MPEx platform in this way Smiley
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