[CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx

[zebedee]

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

Here's the deal: all other assets listed everywhere else either claim or pretend to claim whatever to you. Each and every one such other asset then breaches that claim, when push comes to shove.

You are free to take as much time as you wish to learn this lesson, but eventually you will have to come to the realization that there's exactly two types of people in this world: those who promise exactly what can be enforced no matter what you do, and those who promise whatever you wish with no intention of ever living up to it. Which of these you favor will decide whether you're poor or not. This irrespective of whether you know it or not, whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not.

Such is life, take your time.

I'm waiting for the bit where you point out where I got it wrong.  Where you point out those feeling shafted haven't really been shafted.  Take your time.

[RationalSpeculator]

We signed up to pay EV directly, and in return we get some dividends from his business.  There is no board, we don't get votes, we don't even get an annual shareholders' meeting or detailed quarterly financial reports.  The SEC isn't checking to see where the revenue from these shares goes, and we don't know either.  EV could just be buying a ton of fur coats, I don't know.

What do you mean with 'revenue from the shares', the shares Erik owned and sold to others? The shares you own and sell to others? Or the revenue/profits the company makes?

Why is it important that we know what EV does with the money he gets from selling his shares?

[RationalSpeculator]

Well this is quite astonishing.  That Erik should see fit to effectively abandon his creation, as is evidenced in the last 7 weeks of this thread, and despite the fact it is still printing a reasonable amount of money, is incredible.

I'm not a shareholder, simply because like everything listed on MPEX, it seems like it is just a one-way gentleman's agreement, with anyone other than EV and MP holding the short straw no matter what.  Many events like succession, business purchase etc. are simply not discussed and no obligation is (claimed) to be owed to you.

I posted about my valuation thoughts before.  But I never suspected I'd see it lose value through abandonment in this way.  We can disagree about valuation, and I always said my valuation P/E was 2 or 3, but this is just ... very surprising.

Fancy letting the domain expire.  That tells you the "representatives" (90% Erik) of the "thing" that is Satoshidice don't really give a shit; they've made enough money that other sexier things are now getting their attention, and you paid them the BTC, and they're doing just fine thank you very much.  And you the SD "share"holders are left swinging in the wind.

I thought it'd turn out badly but not in this way.

Did anyone mention "Feedzebirds"?  Another example I think.  Buyer beware.

How do you know that the shares are going down in value due to bad management?

Are the shares even going down in value?

Why do you buy when what is offered is not what you like? (mpex, sdice)

Did you take your own advice 'buyer beware'? If yes, how?

[RationalSpeculator]

Here is what I see happening.

From a positive angle:

You buy something, sdice, and you try to raise it's value by complaining to management what they should do.

How is that working for you?


From a negative angle:

You did not buy something, sdice, and try to lower it's value by pointing out the errors the company makes.

How is that working for you?

[dooglus]

Evorhees, why not get a PR rep?  Maybe even converse with dooglus and come up with a solution to your #1 problem that is communicating.  It's a simple fix, one that will be met (I imagine) with praise from the likes of us (your shareholders).

Not really my strong point, communication.

It just illustrates how poor the official SD communication has been if people think having me as PR would be an improvement! 

[Korbman]

What frustrates me, is that as a BUSINESS, evorhees ought to know by know that transparency, or some semblance of transparency is really great, particularly for shareholders.

EV has been here long enough, so I presume this is something he understand well.

With that in mind, my guess is that there's something going on that a) consumes 100% of his time, b) could be detrimental to the business if brought to the public's attention without first being resolved, c) received advice to temporarily cease communication (such as what happened with Nefario and GLBSE), or d) a mix of any or all of these situations (as well as others I may have missed).

[evoorhees]

Agreed with zebedee.

Maybe behind the scenes work IS being done (intangible work?).
What frustrates me, is that as a BUSINESS, evorhees ought to know by know that transparency, or some semblance of transparency is really great, particularly for shareholders.
If you can just come in here and remind people that you're alive, and the project has your attention, that's all we ask.  Any thing more is a bonus.

Hey all, I apologize for my absence on the forum. I am indeed alive and well, and I am indeed moving forward with SD development.

- I am no longer employed with BitInstant, but have joined Ira Miller (who is also no longer with BI) to expand and grow Coinapult. More details on this in the future. Coinapult and BitInstant are strong business partners with a great relationship, but we needed to be separate entities, with Coinapult HQ'd in Panama for a number of reasons. So yes this means that I am not a US resident anymore.

- I'm still in the process of getting legal advice and working out the corporate structure for the SD entity going forward. I wish everything was as simple and elegant as Bitcoin itself, but hopefully this groundwork will set the game up nicely for the future.

- I've hired a full time developer and admin for SD, who started on the 15th of April. He's been building test servers, learning the system from the prior admin (fireduck, who is staying on to consult in various ways since he's done a great job with security). I've also hired a manager who has significant gaming industry experience. He'll be taking over my role over time so that my busyness is not adversely affecting the site.

- The satoshidice.com domain had expired several days ago (thought it was auto-renewed but clearly not). Problem was sorted immediately and no lingering issues there.

- The developer's main initial project is undisclosed right now for competitive reasons, but I hope to have it ready in a month.

- SatoshiDice is a leading sponsor of the Conference in San Jose next month. Look for considerable brand exposure there.

- I am quite satisfied with SD's handling of attempted double-spend attacks. This took some work to fine-tune, and we continue to monitor it, but it's a well-contained issue at the moment.

- I do not actively monitor this thread, though I probably should. I apologize.

- I agree SD needs a formal PR/customer service rep. I will work on this. If any of you think you'd be good for this role, please contact me on skype. You cannot be a US resident.

- To those of you who have contacted me to convey potential security issues or have other types of recommendations, thank you sincerely. It is inspiring every day to be part of this community that continually, and charitably, builds and improves the various projects and companies that constitute Bitcoin. This movement gets stronger every day.

- I've never been more bullish on Bitcoin. Things are getting out of control, in a good way

As always, people are welcome to contact me via email or skype (skype is preferred). My skype ID is the same as my forum name.

Kind regards,
-Erik

[Zebulon Pike]

Erik, I am going to go ahead and say that this was overdue, but thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.

Have you considered a mailing list for shareholders, or some method of pushing out communications?  When the homepage for the site goes down, a week or two is a long time to wait for any information.

[evoorhees]

Erik, I am going to go ahead and say that this was overdue, but thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.

Have you considered a mailing list for shareholders, or some method of pushing out communications?  When the homepage for the site goes down, a week or two is a long time to wait for any information.

I would love for MPEx to add a feature that enables an asset owner to send simple, occasional messages to the shareholders (maintains anonymity and guarantees that only shareholders get access).

Please put (polite) pressure on Mircea to consider improving the MPEx platform in this way

[rini17]

Erik, I am going to go ahead and say that this was overdue, but thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.

Have you considered a mailing list for shareholders, or some method of pushing out communications?  When the homepage for the site goes down, a week or two is a long time to wait for any information.

I would love for MPEx to add a feature that enables an asset owner to send simple, occasional messages to the shareholders (maintains anonymity and guarantees that only shareholders get access).

Please put (polite) pressure on Mircea to consider improving the MPEx platform in this way

You might as well consider putting polite pressure on bitcoin foundation to get access to send simple, occasional messages to the users and shareholders alike directly via bitcoin network

[evoorhees]

Erik, I am going to go ahead and say that this was overdue, but thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.

Have you considered a mailing list for shareholders, or some method of pushing out communications?  When the homepage for the site goes down, a week or two is a long time to wait for any information.

I would love for MPEx to add a feature that enables an asset owner to send simple, occasional messages to the shareholders (maintains anonymity and guarantees that only shareholders get access).

Please put (polite) pressure on Mircea to consider improving the MPEx platform in this way

You might as well consider putting polite pressure on bitcoin foundation to get access to send simple, occasional messages to the users and shareholders alike directly via bitcoin network

+1  I've heard rumors the bitcoin network will enable messages at some point, this will be extremely helpful for SD.

[Abu22]

- The developer's main initial project is undisclosed right now for competitive reasons, but I hope to have it ready in a month.

- I do not actively monitor this thread, though I probably should. I apologize.

Mind giving us a dash of insight as to what this undisclosed project is themed around? eg. new games etc, site stability, alt coin implimentation, chat feature? I understand if you might wish to be vague but please at least provide some detail of the illusive new project.

Another thing you missed mentioning in your bulk reply was the issue surrounding the 100btc /month payment for the I.T guy/s. You of all people should be well aware of the issue of a flat rate in btc. After working with bitinstant who's main goal is to facilitate a workaround to the constantly fluctating price of bitcoin, you'd imagine you'd take into account the fact that 100 bitcoins are almost certaintly not going to have the same spending power each month. And in the case of a massive spike in value that 100 bitcoin could the total profit of the site (while still being inline with the average profit value)

Care to make a comment on any of this please Erik?

[evoorhees]

- The developer's main initial project is undisclosed right now for competitive reasons, but I hope to have it ready in a month.

- I do not actively monitor this thread, though I probably should. I apologize.

Mind giving us a dash of insight as to what this undisclosed project is themed around? eg. new games etc, site stability, alt coin implimentation, chat feature? I understand if you might wish to be vague but please at least provide some detail of the illusive new project.

Another thing you missed mentioning in your bulk reply was the issue surrounding the 100btc /month payment for the I.T guy/s. You of all people should be well aware of the issue of a flat rate in btc. After working with bitinstant who's main goal is to facilitate a workaround to the constantly fluctating price of bitcoin, you'd imagine you'd take into account the fact that 100 bitcoins are almost certaintly not going to have the same spending power each month. And in the case of a massive spike in value that 100 bitcoin could the total profit of the site (while still being inline with the average profit value)

Care to make a comment on any of this please Erik?

The agreement was 100btc with a cap of USD $5k in value. So the next expense will be significantly lower, and will be changed in the near future again as the new head developer takes over.

[lebing]

- The developer's main initial project is undisclosed right now for competitive reasons, but I hope to have it ready in a month.

- I do not actively monitor this thread, though I probably should. I apologize.

Mind giving us a dash of insight as to what this undisclosed project is themed around? eg. new games etc, site stability, alt coin implimentation, chat feature? I understand if you might wish to be vague but please at least provide some detail of the illusive new project.

Another thing you missed mentioning in your bulk reply was the issue surrounding the 100btc /month payment for the I.T guy/s. You of all people should be well aware of the issue of a flat rate in btc. After working with bitinstant who's main goal is to facilitate a workaround to the constantly fluctating price of bitcoin, you'd imagine you'd take into account the fact that 100 bitcoins are almost certaintly not going to have the same spending power each month. And in the case of a massive spike in value that 100 bitcoin could the total profit of the site (while still being inline with the average profit value)

Care to make a comment on any of this please Erik?

The agreement was 100btc with a cap of USD $5k in value. So the next expense will be significantly lower, and will be changed in the near future again as the new head developer takes over.

Great, thanks Erik.

[Abu22]

The agreement was 100btc with a cap of USD $5k in value. So the next expense will be significantly lower, and will be changed in the near future again as the new head developer takes over.

Soooo March's system operator fee (100btc) shouldn't be deducting the full 100 btc from the sites net profit? Half the month of march was above $50/btc...And don't tell me you pay at the start of each month...Not only because that would be a ill advised move but also because that would set the precedent for a much much smaller payment for the first of April (~$100/btc)

I'm sorry for being so picky about all this business that's going on, but if I could see some proof of what your claiming instead of finding proof that discounts what you've claimed then my mind would be at ease... Also you missed out the comment about the project...even if it is that you're still unwilling to disclose anything about it... If it's that top secret I hope your promises are more than that of a politicians.

[Slushpuppy]

hello erik I am the moderator of reddits /r/litecoin board. My traffic stats have been exploding this month so either litecoin is a really big fad or the market wants it to stick around. how difficult would it be to add litecoin support to satoshidice?

[RationalSpeculator]

Erik,

There is a new cost charged for April: 'SatoshiRoller IP rights'

I was under the impression SD owned the IP rights themselves. How high will these IP costs be over time?

[Abu22]

Erik,

There is a new cost charged for April: 'SatoshiRoller IP rights'

I was under the impression SD owned the IP rights themselves. How high will these IP costs be over time?

Thinking the same thing...

But again, no word for almost a week...

This has got to be a joke...

For April:
Earnings   3813.93462751   btc
Hosting/Tech Expenses   12.2   btc
Head IT April Pro-Rated   52.945   btc
Systems operator   91.7   btc
Legal   25.51   btc
IP Rights to SatoshiRoller   40.46   btc   
Loss Carryover   0   btc
---------------------------------
Net Profit   3591.11962751


The pro-rated Head IT expenses ( max cap/52.945 )..So $5000/52.945 btc = $94.4376 average price... April was below $100/btc for maximum 5 days.  You're not averaging the month because March's average was higher than $50/btc. Which does not correlate with the 100 btc payment.

And now you're adding another Systems operator...whos (cap?) is $8660..If you're using the same averaging technique as above...It seems like your just letting 'The Ghost of Satoshi roll the dice and pick a Lucky Number' that you claim as the fee's.

This is appalling.

[nebulus]

This is appalling.

Dude, you are overeacting. SD having pro-staff is a good thing.

[ColdHardMetal]

This is appalling.

Dude, you are overeacting. SD having pro-staff is a good thing.

Sure, but a little more transparency wouldn't hurt either.