**MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade

[JordanLee]

Can the BlockShare holders get dividends in thier lightweight BTC wallets? Peershares export private keys to the Peercoin satoshi wallet. I hope the BlockShare shareholders don't have to have updated BTC satoshi wallet with its monster size blockchain.

I'm certainly aware that few BlockShare holders will be interested in hosting a Bitcoin node. While the B&C Exchange client will support export to the Bitcoin reference client because it requires no additional development, other Bitcoin key export methods are needed. The difficulty is every client that can handle Bitcoin keys will have a different way of permitting adding keys to the wallet. Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file. Then the shareholder can import that to whatever Bitcoin client they choose to use. It is possible that later the B&C Exchange client will support automated export of Bitcoin keys to a number of popular wallet applications.

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[bumpk1nK]

ohh I only noticed this now, what a wonderful project. I want to be a part of this. what's the best way to do so?

[mhps]

Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file.

I prefer to the clipboard or just display it so the user can copy. Saving to text file will leave  security risks even after the file is deleted.

[BCExchange]

ohh I only noticed this now, what a wonderful project. I want to be a part of this. what's the best way to do so?

Hi bumpk1nK. We're glad you think our project is worthwhile, thanks for joining us here.

There are two ways to help us out and be part of the B&C Exchange project:

1) If you'd like to one day be a partial owner of B&C Exchange, meaning you would own BlockShares and receive Bitcoin dividends, you can place a bid in our ongoing auction for NuShares. Auction rules are specified in the original post. The proceeds from the auction will be used to create the protocol and user interface for B&C Exchange. When that is complete, the B&C Exchange blockchain (BlockShares) will be created as a fork of the NuShares blockchain. At the moment the B&C Exchange blockchain is created it will have the exact same shareholders as the NuShares blockchain. The B&C Exchange client will allow you to select your NuShares wallet and convert it to a BlockShares wallet.

2) If you don't want to bid in our auction, you can greatly help our project by spreading word of this announcement thread to any cryptocurrency communities you are part of. We need to raise 200,000 USD from our auction to fund development of this innovation.

If you have any questions we haven't already answered, we're happy to address them here. In the meantime, keep visiting this thread to stay up to date on any current news related to B&C Exchange development.

[BCExchange]

Do we get an email confirmation if the bid is valid or not?

Yes we will be sending confirmations that a bid is received and valid. If you have not heard from us within 24 hours of entering your bid, please send us another message to confirm receipt.

[bumpk1nK]

ohh I only noticed this now, what a wonderful project. I want to be a part of this. what's the best way to do so?

Hi bumpk1nK. We're glad you think our project is worthwhile, thanks for joining us here.

There are two ways to help us out and be part of the B&C Exchange project:

1) If you'd like to one day be a partial owner of B&C Exchange, meaning you would own BlockShares and receive Bitcoin dividends, you can place a bid in our ongoing auction for NuShares. Auction rules are specified in the original post. The proceeds from the auction will be used to create the protocol and user interface for B&C Exchange. When that is complete, the B&C Exchange blockchain will be created as a fork of the NuShares blockchain. At the moment the B&C Exchange blockchain is created it will have the exact same shareholders as the NuShares blockchain. The B&C Exchange client will allow you to select your NuShares wallet and convert it to a BlockShares wallet.

2) If you don't want to bid in our auction, you can greatly help our project by spreading word of this announcement thread to any cryptocurrency communities you are part of. We need to raise 200,000 USD from our auction to fund development of this innovation.

If you have any questions we haven't already answered, we're happy to address them here. In the meantime, keep visiting this thread to stay up to date on any current news related to B&C Exchange development.

I do want to help, I will see what I can do Right now I cant really afford to invest in to many offers but I will be selling some alts tonight. I have been ill and not on the forum really in a long time so I need to clean up my old holdings and maybe I will have a nuff to invest and be a part owner. I like that idea great job

[bruter]

Any estimation on the snapshot date of Bitcoin blockchain?

[BonTonPlease]

How many people do have access to the information about the bids that have been or will be submitted? Who are those people?
I would like to know that as certain types of market movements during that auction could likely be leading to certain conclusions.

[BCExchange]

How many people do have access to the information about the bids that have been or will be submitted? Who are those people?
I would like to know that as certain types of market movements during that auction could likely be leading to certain conclusions.

The person or persons who control the primary email/BitMessage accounts are prohibited from placing bids and will conduct no market activities with NuShares during the auction period. We obviously want to avoid harming the fundraising of this important project.

[Bisha]

Any estimation on the snapshot date of Bitcoin blockchain?

Already asked on previous page. no eta

[jubalix]

So, What if I buy nushares from an exchange and send it to my local/controlled address....is that much more expensive than bidding?

[BCExchange]

There are now 11 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far. If you are planning on bidding, please submit it as early as possible to ensure that you are given priority in the event of a tie bid.

[JordanLee]

Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file.

I prefer to the clipboard or just display it so the user can copy. Saving to text file will leave  security risks even after the file is deleted.

Agreed. We will display it in a way that it can be copied to the clipboard.

Perhaps in a later iteration we can make the B&C Exchange minting client also support Bitcoin as a light client so that Bitcoin balances can be viewed and transferred from it.

[bumpk1nK]

yay man. im so happy today. i found out i will get more btc in two days so I think i will invest here not that i have the extra btc to do so.

[Sentinelrv]

Has anybody here done any personal calculations like Jordan suggested? I'm really curious to see what people think, no matter how off the projections may be in the end.

Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

There are two issues with creating projections. First, even back-of-envelope calculations would create informal expectations on the part of bidders that may not ever be achieved. We are keen to avoid that, just as we did with the original distribution of NuShares. Bidders should generate their own forecasts and bid (or not bid) accordingly.

The second issue is that there are simply too many dynamic variables that are controlled by shareholders and not the developers. For example, a transaction fee of 1.00 BKC could be set by shareholders per trade, for which projections could be made based on reasonable assumptions of the market share that would be taken from centralized exchanges. However, shareholders could decide to raise it to 3.00 BKC next month if that rate would still be competitive, or drop it to 0.20 BKC next month if strong competitors emerged. There is a tremendous amount of variance in projected revenue. We also don't know yet what transaction fee rates shareholders will conclude is optimal.

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions. It would be very easy for us to generate an optimistic prediction of how shareholders will vote, but it is unlikely to be very accurate.

Edit: This is probably important in figuring this out...

If the trade fees in credits a percentage of the exchanged quantity or is it a fixed fee regardless of the quantity?

Neither*. B&C will not charge commission fees on trades, only the transaction fees on the messages sent through the blockchain (charged by the byte, instead of per kilobyte like in Nu or Peercoin). The size of the fee per "trade" will have more to do with the number of signers used and the type of message being sent ("trade", "confirmation", etc.) than the amount of tokens being traded between the separate blockchains.

* Initially. It's entirely within the B&C shareholders' right to vote on a motion that requires a percentage-based or flat commission fee at some point in the future.

[mhps]

Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions.

Assuming the "effective transaction fee per trade" is similar to centralized exchanges at 0.25%, for every $1M/day trading volume, the average revenue is $2500 per day. If 80% of it goes to dividends , then with 900M shares, dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) is

$2000 * 30 / 900,000,000 * 10,000 = $0.67 (per $1M/day trading volume)

If B&C volume is 1% of  today's total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex), divendends is $0.2/10k/mo. Reaching 10% (BTC-e) the dividends will be $2/10k/mo. Reaching 30% (Bitfinex) it will be $6.7/10k/mo.

[Sentinelrv]

Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions.

Assuming the "effective transaction fee per trade" is similar to centralized exchanges at 0.25%, for every $1M/day trading volume, the average revenue is $2500 per day. If 80% of it goes to dividends , then with 900M shares, dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) is

$2000 * 30 / 900,000,000 * 10,000 = $0.67 (per $1M/day trading volume)

If B&C volume is 1% of  today's total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex), divendends is $0.2/10k/mo. Reaching 10% (BTC-e) the dividends will be $2/10k/mo. Reaching 30% (Bitfinex) it will be $6.7/10k/mo.

So when NuShares were first distributed, the maximum amount people could buy in a lot was 5 million shares, which cost about $9,000 for the full lot. As we know when B&C launches, shares will be given on a 1:1 ratio based on how many NuShares you own. So let's assume that there are a lot of people that bought the maximum lot amount of 5 million NuShares. These people would then eventually own 5 million shares in B&C. So in your examples, let's replace 10,000 shares with 5 million and see what the totals come out to then.

$2000 * 30 / 900,000,000 * 5,000,000 = $333 (per $1M/day trading volume) This should still be only 80% dividends like in mhps's example. That's an important point. Shareholders will be able to vote to set aside portions of the profit for anything they want to use it for.

If B&C volume is 1% of today's total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex), divendends is $100/5m/mo. Reaching 10% (BTC-e) the dividends will be $1,000/5m/mo. Reaching 30% (Bitfinex) it will be $3,350/5m/mo.

Please let me know if I screwed something up here. Math is not my strongest area. Also as said before, this was just based on today's volume. I wonder what it would be with the average volume. It also doesn't take into account the possibility that daily volume might increase over the next several years as more people get into crypto. We can't count on that of course though.

[mhps]

Please let me know if I screwed something up here. Math is not my strongest area. Also as said before, this was just based on today's volume. I wonder what it would be with the average volume. It also doesn't take into account the possibility that daily volume might increase over the next several years as more people get into crypto. We can't count on that of course though.

I think the math is OK. The uncertainty is in severeal related areas. We have seen daily volume 10 fold of today's.
Since B&C reduces single point of failiure that centralized exchanges have against theft (hack or insider's job) so I expect more people are willing to trade often on B&C, trade larger amount, and leave their fund longer "on exchange", hence creating greater liquidity.  All these have a non-linear positive effect on trading volume. However there is a limit. B&C plan to distribute security risks to ~15 signers. It is much easier to fortify security of one centralized exchange than to have ~15 anonymous signers do it. It does seem difficult to compromize 8 of 15 signers or addresses. However there is a lot of incentive to steal from these high value online wallets owned by amateurs, if I understand the signers' deposit addresses right. If theft becomes a systemic issue, the cost will ends up  in the fee (as insurance) charged to B&C.

edit: note that the volume on centralized exchanges are mostly driven by relatively high frequency trades. The B&C exchange will be slower and there will be transaction fees charged by bitcoin network etc. So daily volume is expected to be lower due to this factor, all else being equal. The problems is "all else" are not equal.

[BCExchange]

There are now 10 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far.

[jubalix]

hi bumping my previous question.

Whats the diff between bidding and buying nushares on the open market?