[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[cosmicone]

It is really ok, that your jealous that we can pick loans and you can't with your little 4 btcs. Just own it and move on to something else cause your trolling yet it aint working LOL

Not sure why you're even replying to my posts.  Tulkas has been replying to people with real suggestions/comments, and making changes when necessary to improve the site.  I have no idea who you are, or if you're even a stakeholder in BTCJam... I assume you're not though. 

Which would lead me to think.. who is the troll?

[gweedo]

It is really ok, that your jealous that we can pick loans and you can't with your little 4 btcs. Just own it and move on to something else cause your trolling yet it aint working LOL

Not sure why you're even replying to my posts.  Tulkas has been replying to people with real suggestions/comments, and making changes when necessary to improve the site.  I have no idea who you are, or if you're even a stakeholder in BTCJam... I assume you're not though. 

Which would lead me to think.. who is the troll?

Not a stakeholder but made enough bitcoins off the site that I am good. I am replying to you cause you should like the biggest idiot ever, and you obviously have no idea of how P2P loaning works so yea I am going to reply to you and show you how your being a moron LOL That would lead me to you who I think is being a troll, cause you have no idea what you are talking about.

[cosmicone]

Not a stakeholder but made enough bitcoins off the site that I am good. I am replying to you cause you should like the biggest idiot ever, and you obviously have no idea of how P2P loaning works so yea I am going to reply to you and show you how your being a moron LOL That would lead me to you who I think is being a troll, cause you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'll ignore your grammar and assume English is not your first language.  Oh, while I'm at it, I'll just ignore your userid.. there that solves a lot of problems.

Tulkas, I apologize for taking your thread off course.  I look forward to your continued improvement of BTCJam, and hope that my suggestions can help.

[ThaddeusB]

ZOMG SHOOP!

I agree with what your saying, there is a skill in picking out the non-scammers. the total I have been scammed for is <0.5BTC (those loans were mainly "for the lulz"). I had around 80BTC invested in the site at one point. The only thing I don't like about BTCJam is the lack of comeback against scammers as they will not release the docs, which is why I've decided to stop using it.

Thank goodness I haven't started investing yet.

John,

The lender cannot have the documents, this is illegal, BTCJAM can't handle they to you and even if you decide to lend on the forums, every time you ask for documents in order to lend money to U.S., U.K or Russian (and many other) citizens you are breaking the law!

It's illegal in all the above countries (plus 140 more) to conduct this kind of non anonymous, non arbitrated lending activities. After all, what you intend to do with the documents?? Go after the borrowers and do what? It's illegal to lend anything in this fashion, let alone contact the person asking for payments.

The purpose of the identity verification is to create an ecosystem of trusted peers, this is already happening. We are also working to get a collection procedure in place, this is being made in a legal fashion, backed by international laws.

Do not do it by yourself, you cannot go after the borrower because lending money directly to another person in this fashion is illegal to begin with, our system is a safer and legal way to do that.

Um, it most certainly is not illegal to ask to see someone's ID in the United States.  You probably can't hand over the docs to lenders, but is only because you didn't tell people upfront that you would do so.  It is NOT because of some law forbidding non-anonymous lending.

[ThaddeusB]

Did I hear someone say "Put-up or Shut-up"?

Congrats on your profits and I hope your remaining 177 is paid (honestly).  Looks like you've made wise choices, at least so far.  On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd be bragging about my judgement if I got scammed out of 45 BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135929.0), but hey everyone makes mistakes. 

Of course, even with a 45 coin loss, you are a million times better than gweedo.  He is all air and trolling, and doesn't have the guts to post his full record. 

[gweedo]

Of course, even with a 45 coin loss, you are a million times better than gweedo.  He is all air and trolling, and doesn't have the guts to post his full record. 

LOL yeah sadly I am all air LOL Dude I am not comfortable to have my wealth records out in the public, if you want to pay me 10btcs I will show you my uncensored document.

[LoweryCBS]

...even with a 45 coin loss...

No loss on that one: PayPal reversed it. But I've experienced some losses in the past, absolutely!

(go even further back in my posting history, you'll find more )

I'm sure I'll have losses in the future, otherwise I'm not managing credit risk properly.

Not bragging; No malice; Not trying to troll: I'm just suggesting that lenders take responsibility for their choices.

[ahdinosaur]

i'm having problems verifying my bitcoin-otc identity. i keep getting the error: "Error retrieving gpg keyid.", when inputting the GPG key of "C35572AAF9E6D832" found here.

am i doing something wrong or is this a bug?

[yellowdog213]

I was just looking at various listings to see where I wanted to invest, and I was looking to see if there was any way to see if a user had paid back a previous loan early or not. It wasn't a user I had invested in before, so it would not show up in my calendar or anything, I just wanted to know if the user had a reputation of paying back early. I know that this is something that can be found by looking at their reputation comments, but people don't always give detailed comments and such.

So, I guess what I am asking is if there is any way for there to be something that says if a user repaid early, and possibly how much earlier than their due date. I think that this would be an interesting feature to add...I'm not sure how plausible it is but just an idea.

Thanks!

[cosmicone]

Tulkas here is an idea:

Darkko (https://btcjam.com/users/903), for example has outstanding loans.  However, he also is a lender himself (https://btcjam.com/listings/1458), so if he has a balance of anything on his account, he cannot withdrawal any coin, while he is overdue on his own loans.

For example, he has 10BTC loaned to Galwaysteve which he did on Jan 31, 2013.  One day later his account was overdue on his 12BTC loan.. so he probably just shifted the money within his account that he received from his funding to fund another loan.  So no biggie, that's fine.

Now that he is overdue on his account, he should not be able to move any BTC back to his wallet, or to another loan.   He should be required to clean his slate first.  Doesn't stop anyone with no money in their account, but does 'somewhat' allow for a cushion for the site to play with, to credit back lenders.

What do you think?

[ThaddeusB]

...even with a 45 coin loss...

No loss on that one: PayPal reversed it. But I've experienced some losses in the past, absolutely!

(go even further back in my posting history, you'll find more )

I'm sure I'll have losses in the future, otherwise I'm not managing credit risk properly.

Not bragging; No malice; Not trying to troll: I'm just suggesting that lenders take responsibility for their choices.

Glad to hear that you recovered the coins.  No one likes a scammer. 

I have no problem with you and I agree that lenders should take some/most of the responsibility for their losses.  That does not, however, mean that BTCJam is doing its part to stop scammers.  The site is almost entirely filled with scam/highly questionable listings (of which well over 50% never get funded) for a reason - the way things are set up, there is no consequence for scamming, and its easy to cover one's tracks and run the same scam over and over again.

[ThaddeusB]

i'm having problems verifying my bitcoin-otc identity. i keep getting the error: "Error retrieving gpg keyid.", when inputting the GPG key of "C35572AAF9E6D832" found here.

am i doing something wrong or is this a bug?

I think it is a bug.  I've been having the same problem for weeks.  Tulkas asked me for my gpg key, which I provided, but hasn't replied to me again despite multiple attempts to get in touch. 

[Tulkas]

i'm having problems verifying my bitcoin-otc identity. i keep getting the error: "Error retrieving gpg keyid.", when inputting the GPG key of "C35572AAF9E6D832" found here.

am i doing something wrong or is this a bug?

I think it is a bug.  I've been having the same problem for weeks.  Tulkas asked me for my gpg key, which I provided, but hasn't replied to me again despite multiple attempts to get in touch. 

This is because we switched servers after the attack, the gpg software is not properly configured. Sorry about that, will fix and notify you.

[vampire]

ZOMG SHOOP!

I agree with what your saying, there is a skill in picking out the non-scammers. the total I have been scammed for is <0.5BTC (those loans were mainly "for the lulz"). I had around 80BTC invested in the site at one point. The only thing I don't like about BTCJam is the lack of comeback against scammers as they will not release the docs, which is why I've decided to stop using it.

Thank goodness I haven't started investing yet.

John,

The lender cannot have the documents, this is illegal, BTCJAM can't handle they to you and even if you decide to lend on the forums, every time you ask for documents in order to lend money to U.S., U.K or Russian (and many other) citizens you are breaking the law!

It's illegal in all the above countries (plus 140 more) to conduct this kind of non anonymous, non arbitrated lending activities. After all, what you intend to do with the documents?? Go after the borrowers and do what? It's illegal to lend anything in this fashion, let alone contact the person asking for payments.

The purpose of the identity verification is to create an ecosystem of trusted peers, this is already happening. We are also working to get a collection procedure in place, this is being made in a legal fashion, backed by international laws.

Do not do it by yourself, you cannot go after the borrower because lending money directly to another person in this fashion is illegal to begin with, our system is a safer and legal way to do that.

It isn't illegal in Russia. It's quiet normal for a Russian company to ask for a passport. Let put this way noone would give a credit in Russia without a passport. You cant even open any accounts like mobile or cable without a passport.


Nor its illegal in USA, since they will even ask for your SSN.

[Tulkas]

It isn't illegal in Russia. It's quiet normal for a Russian company to ask for a passport. Let put this way noone would give a credit in Russia without a passport. You cant even open any accounts like mobile or cable without a passport.

Nor its illegal in USA, since they will even ask for your SSN.

Yes, you can ask for documents. In bars they ask for ID to sell drinks.

Its illegal to ask for documents with the purpose of collecting debt if you are not licensed to do so. search google for "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act".



 

[cosmicone]

Tulkas, any thoughts on my idea posted a few posts up?

[Tulkas]

I was just looking at various listings to see where I wanted to invest, and I was looking to see if there was any way to see if a user had paid back a previous loan early or not. It wasn't a user I had invested in before, so it would not show up in my calendar or anything, I just wanted to know if the user had a reputation of paying back early. I know that this is something that can be found by looking at their reputation comments, but people don't always give detailed comments and such.

So, I guess what I am asking is if there is any way for there to be something that says if a user repaid early, and possibly how much earlier than their due date. I think that this would be an interesting feature to add...I'm not sure how plausible it is but just an idea.

Thanks!

Yes, it can be done, all the payment dates are logged. Please can you enter this idea on our uservoice feature? So other users can vote for it and you can follow the implementation progress.

[Tulkas]

Tulkas here is an idea:

Darkko (https://btcjam.com/users/903), for example has outstanding loans.  However, he also is a lender himself (https://btcjam.com/listings/1458), so if he has a balance of anything on his account, he cannot withdrawal any coin, while he is overdue on his own loans.

For example, he has 10BTC loaned to Galwaysteve which he did on Jan 31, 2013.  One day later his account was overdue on his 12BTC loan.. so he probably just shifted the money within his account that he received from his funding to fund another loan.  So no biggie, that's fine.

Now that he is overdue on his account, he should not be able to move any BTC back to his wallet, or to another loan.   He should be required to clean his slate first.  Doesn't stop anyone with no money in their account, but does 'somewhat' allow for a cushion for the site to play with, to credit back lenders.

What do you think?

Not sure about that, imagine if your mobile operator had the power to move money from your account to pay overdue bills?

[cosmicone]

Tulkas here is an idea:

Darkko (https://btcjam.com/users/903), for example has outstanding loans.  However, he also is a lender himself (https://btcjam.com/listings/1458), so if he has a balance of anything on his account, he cannot withdrawal any coin, while he is overdue on his own loans.

For example, he has 10BTC loaned to Galwaysteve which he did on Jan 31, 2013.  One day later his account was overdue on his 12BTC loan.. so he probably just shifted the money within his account that he received from his funding to fund another loan.  So no biggie, that's fine.

Now that he is overdue on his account, he should not be able to move any BTC back to his wallet, or to another loan.   He should be required to clean his slate first.  Doesn't stop anyone with no money in their account, but does 'somewhat' allow for a cushion for the site to play with, to credit back lenders.

What do you think?

Not sure about that, imagine if your mobile operator had the power to move money from your account to pay overdue bills?

You're not moving anything.. you only disallow someone to withdraw 'their' funds to their wallet, or fund a loan to another member (which could be their second account), until their account is in good standing.

Now that doesn't stop fraud, but does give the site a way to help protect lenders. 

Of course people will just game the system, but they are doing that now, so I don't see how it would hurt.

[gweedo]

Of course people will just game the system, but they are doing that now, so I don't see how it would hurt.

FUD, they are just gaming stupid people like you You clearly are still very dumb just be quiet and use the site if you like it, otherwise stop you have terrible ideas.