[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[boonies4u]

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks.  More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made.  I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I am in this situation. I won't go into detail here though.

[Smoovious]

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks.  More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made.  I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I am in this situation. I won't go into detail here though.

I'm also in this situation, and at this point, I am unable to keep the repayment schedule, no matter how I try to do the math it isn't possible... the remainder of the payments on my loan are going to be late... and the more the exchange rate rises, the later they will be.

Nothing else I can do... sucks... I barely stayed on time as it is.

I considered the possibility of BTC rising to 20 USD, or 30 USD on the outside... almost 110 USD? WAY beyond any schedule I can keep.

At the current price, it is 1000% more than what I cashed out the BTC from my loan for, not including the loan interest itself.

-- Smoov

[sal002]

Perhaps some sort of forced refinancing if approved by a percentage of lenders or something would address this in a smooth way without bankrupting people.  This would require lender approval, but might address the issue.

[Snipes777]

I think there should be some way of lenders forgiving their portion of the loan- or part of their loan. This way, people can work out deals with individual lenders for lower amounts and then their portion of the loan can be forgiven. At such a point loans may be able to be paid back. Of course, this also would require the upcoming user to user messaging system. I would forgive some of my late loans or portions of the loans to get something back- especially if I'm up overall because of exchange rate. Obviously it should be a lender's choice to participate in this, and rating would be available if they do it. At least during such an exponential period this could be a possible feature.

I would like to work things out with borrowers, but I can't then remove the amount they owe me according to the system.

[gweedo]

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks.  More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made.  I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I am in this situation. I won't go into detail here though.

I'm also in this situation, and at this point, I am unable to keep the repayment schedule, no matter how I try to do the math it isn't possible... the remainder of the payments on my loan are going to be late... and the more the exchange rate rises, the later they will be.

Nothing else I can do... sucks... I barely stayed on time as it is.

I considered the possibility of BTC rising to 20 USD, or 30 USD on the outside... almost 110 USD? WAY beyond any schedule I can keep.

At the current price, it is 1000% more than what I cashed out the BTC from my loan for, not including the loan interest itself.

-- Smoov

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

[sal002]

SCAMMER indicates someone who is not using best faith efforts to repay.  Economics hitting hard in a historical matter does not indicate a "scammer".  However, it does indicate someone who has not paid on a loan becuase the world around them crashed down.   

That being said, BTCJam needs to figure this out.  Along with the inaccurate interest calculations on early payments, this will kill the site unless we see a huge BTC crash soon.

[Rassah]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

[Miademora]

I searched quite a bit but i cant find what happens when a loan defaults. Where on the site is it?

Do we get access to the documents they used for identity verification?

[gweedo]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

[creativex]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

There's a right way and a wrong way to handle it if you get in over your head. If a borrower posts as says "look I fukked up, I'm sorry and can we please work something out" I got no problem with that. Doubling the duration of the loan or cutting the interest are possibilities. Just walking away is bs scammer behavior, but that's what most are doing.

[gweedo]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

There's a right way and a wrong way to handle it if you get in over your head. If a borrower posts as says "look I fukked up, I'm sorry and can we please work something out" I got no problem with that. Doubling the duration of the loan or cutting the interest are possibilities. Just walking away is bs scammer behavior, but that's what most are doing.

People need to take risk more seriously, and these people obviously didn't do that. Saying "Hey looked I didn't take the volatility seriously" is correct then saying "I messed up" I think I wouldn't accept any of that BS and probably sue them on capital loss.

[sal002]

I am not saying there shouldn't be repercussions, similar to what happens in any scenario that involves mis-payment on a loan (settlement, notation on credit report, etc), but just saying the "SCAMMER" tag is not appropriate. 

As for me - I am hoping for a large BTC crash

[Smoovious]

I'm also in this situation, and at this point, I am unable to keep the repayment schedule, no matter how I try to do the math it isn't possible... the remainder of the payments on my loan are going to be late... and the more the exchange rate rises, the later they will be.

Nothing else I can do... sucks... I barely stayed on time as it is.

I considered the possibility of BTC rising to 20 USD, or 30 USD on the outside... almost 110 USD? WAY beyond any schedule I can keep.

At the current price, it is 1000% more than what I cashed out the BTC from my loan for, not including the loan interest itself.

-- Smoov

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

No I don't...

The scammer tag belongs to those who set out to defraud from the start.

It doesn't get tacked onto people who are making an honest effort to honor his obligations, but due to circumstances beyond his control, is no longer able.

If I just walked away, with no more effort to repay, not even bothering to communicate? Then yes, you can make an argument for the scammer tag.

This isn't that situation, and your position completely ignores realities that can't just be tossed aside.

-- Smoov

[boonies4u]

If i'm going to be getting a scammer tag I really don't have any incentive to pay back at all.

[Rassah]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

Who took the risk though? The person accepting a loan in a rapidly appreciating currency, or the person giving out an unsecured loan to an almost anonymous person online? (The same question is still being asked regarding housing bubble, with borrowers v.s. banks)

[gweedo]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

Who took the risk though? The person accepting a loan in a rapidly appreciating currency, or the person giving out an unsecured loan to an almost anonymous person online? (The same question is still being asked regarding housing bubble, with borrowers v.s. banks)

Well we are talking about two different types of risk. While yes there is a lot of risk sending anonymous person online coins, I was just focusing on the risk of converting coins to dollars. The market is too crazy look the market was hovering in the teens and 20's then shot up $30 then $50 and now we are sitting in the hundreds. I am just saying I think people need to understand the market better, before doing loans to convert to dollars.

[boonies4u]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

Who took the risk though? The person accepting a loan in a rapidly appreciating currency, or the person giving out an unsecured loan to an almost anonymous person online? (The same question is still being asked regarding housing bubble, with borrowers v.s. banks)

Well we are talking about two different types of risk. While yes there is a lot of risk sending anonymous person online coins, I was just focusing on the risk of converting coins to dollars. The market is too crazy look the market was hovering in the teens and 20's then shot up $30 then $50 and now we are sitting in the hundreds. I am just saying I think people need to understand the market better, before doing loans to convert to dollars.

The price was pretty stable when I got my loan.

[gweedo]

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

Who took the risk though? The person accepting a loan in a rapidly appreciating currency, or the person giving out an unsecured loan to an almost anonymous person online? (The same question is still being asked regarding housing bubble, with borrowers v.s. banks)

Well we are talking about two different types of risk. While yes there is a lot of risk sending anonymous person online coins, I was just focusing on the risk of converting coins to dollars. The market is too crazy look the market was hovering in the teens and 20's then shot up $30 then $50 and now we are sitting in the hundreds. I am just saying I think people need to understand the market better, before doing loans to convert to dollars.

The price was pretty stable when I got my loan.

Do you even know what makes a market stable? Cause bitcoin is more stable then it used to be but it is not completely stable, when your converting to fiat and back you need to know the risk with that. If you know if it goes up and you can't pay the investors back then maybe you shouldn't take the loan.

[boonies4u]

The price was pretty stable when I got my loan.

Do you even know what makes a market stable? Cause bitcoin is more stable then it used to be but it is not completely stable, when your converting to fiat and back you need to know the risk with that. If you know if it goes up and you can't pay the investors back then maybe you shouldn't take the loan.

I was meaning to highlight that the price was stable in comparison to prices lately. There weren't 20 dollars jumps in either direction in a single day.

[BurtW]

How do I change the password on my BTCJam account?