[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[sal002]

I'd like to see a detailed history on each loan, including when payments where made and the running total of the principal balance.

[hailstorm]

May I ask what the % of loans are that are overdue? I suspect it will give a very different picture than just % of payments that are overdue.

[filharvey]

At the moment 4 of the loans I supported are overdue out of the 6 I funded. The other 2's first payments are not due yet. But at the moment it looks like no-one on BTCJam is paying back their loans at all.

Phil

[sal002]

I just pre-paid a bunch of my future payments on my loan.  Although the future payment calc is now wrong taking into account these early payments (and wish there would be more details available on the site as I have no idea what the principal balance is as of today), some people are making an effort.  My issue is I should owe 2.4 BTC by my calcs, but BTCJam shows I owe about 5 (which a 2.6 BTC at the current exchange rate for a loan that started off as $300 USD in total is a bit of an extreme difference).  I am getting no response from the site anymore (even after sending a spreadsheet that shows where BTCJam is broken, so I am lead to believe all interest rate calcs are wrong.)

It was a shame - I can see a use for BTCJam, but the math is all wrong (and it makes the whole issue worse right now).

[Tulkas]

-1

Many lenders will fail to consider this. They will simply seek borrowers that seem honorable and those borrowers that are honorable or were honorable in the past will simply have no way whatsoever to repay their loans because they cannot earn or borrow enough fiat to repay their loans anymore. This situation would've been fine had BTC remained in the double digits, but at over $200 this will effect every borrower that lacks the ability to mine the coins needed to repay their debt...or borrow the coins from someone else to repay their btcjam loan.

The borrowers that don't pay will not remain reputable, people with late loans can't even create new listings.

I really understand and share your concerns, every constructive suggestion and advice will be considered.

[Tulkas]

I just pre-paid a bunch of my future payments on my loan.  Although the future payment calc is now wrong taking into account these early payments (and wish there would be more details available on the site as I have no idea what the principal balance is as of today), some people are making an effort.  My issue is I should owe 2.4 BTC by my calcs, but BTCJam shows I owe about 5 (which a 2.6 BTC at the current exchange rate for a loan that started off as $300 USD in total is a bit of an extreme difference).  I am getting no response from the site anymore (even after sending a spreadsheet that shows where BTCJam is broken, so I am lead to believe all interest rate calcs are wrong.)

It was a shame - I can see a use for BTCJam, but the math is all wrong (and it makes the whole issue worse right now).

The math is right. You can verify it at those websites (not owned by BTCJam).

There are many online calculators, this one, for example:
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/loan-calculator.aspx

They ask for annual percent rate (APR), to convert to monthly just multiply by 12 (and set the payment cycle to one of the monthly options on BTCJam):
http://www.wikicfo.com/(S(ad5nas45u0zr13fcts5u0y55))/Print.aspx?Page=Annual%20Percent%20Rate&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Early payments are not discounted. Fixed payment loans usually don't discount when payments are made early.

[sal002]

I verified it and my math is right, unfortunately.   You have to use the "Extra Payments" section, which is what my spreadsheet also showed.  If payments are made earlier (as my amortization spreadsheet attached above shows), it decreases the principal that was available for interest accumulation so the 2% interest (in my case), has less to be calced against, resulting in a decreased total payment.  BTCJam does not account for this and always assumes payments are made exactly on the date they are owned, which is incorrect (per the link you sent).  This does not decrease the amount of the fixed payments, but usually decreases the number of fixed payments (and may make the last payment smaller as well).

Please look at the spreadsheet I emailed you.

[sal002]

It would help verify the payments if we could see a ledger of all the payments that were made on a particular loan (as well as the interest rate calced at each payment and the portion applicable to principal).  Most loan sites provide that info (from mortgage companies to smaller consumer loans).  Otherwise, I can't trust the numbers at all at BTCJam since my spreadsheet reflects a large calc error.

[parseval]

I posted this question to your support email, but I figure I'll place it here as well so that others will know, if they are searching. 

The terms state that providing additional personal information outside the listing is 'not recommended' due to potential harm that can occur.  Is this outright banned?   I'd like to add a telephone number for any investors to be able to contact me at if they have questions about how their loan is being invested.


Also, as an aside, I notice that the last loan I secured did not send me back any dividends.  Are there plans to track dividends and send them to the original share owner once the loan is fully paid and the shares are returned?   

I ask because one problem with securing loans while the value of BTC is fluctuating is that some of the securities will have a value that fluctuates along with the price of bitcoin.  I avoided securing my last loan for this reason --  there's no way to sell when the price drops with the shares tied up as collateral.   If I were to receive dividends for my locked down shares, then I could collateralize with those securities which I believe hold long term value and pay dividends frequently without worrying about the loss of divididends for the entire time period.  As an example, I could provide Asicminer as collateral, which pay once or twice a week, rather than S.Dice, which pays out on a  monthly basis.

[yellowdog213]

I'm not the most knowledgable when it comes to bitcoins and BTCJAM, or really anything having to do with money, so I am a little confused about what this new "notes" thing is. Could someone please explain it to like as though I am five years old?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It's basically selling debt.

[sal002]

Or at least something like debt.  It is a fixed payment, quasi interest barring debt (actually not interest but fixed cost).

[yellowdog213]

It's basically selling debt.

Or at least something like debt.  It is a fixed payment, quasi interest barring debt (actually not interest but fixed cost).

Neither of these explain it to me like I am five years old. Could someone please be very explicit about it? I'm sorry that I don't understand; I am just so naive about anything related to money.
What would it mean if I were to click one of the buttons that says BUY on the Open Sell Orders? What would happen?

[sal002]

It's basically selling debt.

Or at least something like debt.  It is a fixed payment, quasi interest barring debt (actually not interest but fixed cost).

Neither of these explain it to me like I am five years old. Could someone please be very explicit about it? I'm sorry that I don't understand; I am just so naive about anything related to money.
What would it mean if I were to click one of the buttons that says BUY on the Open Sell Orders? What would happen?

Quite honestly if you are five years old, you shouldn't be using BTCJam.  It is basically a way to get a loan from your peers, or a way to offer a loan to your peers.

[yellowdog213]

It's basically selling debt.

Or at least something like debt.  It is a fixed payment, quasi interest barring debt (actually not interest but fixed cost).

Neither of these explain it to me like I am five years old. Could someone please be very explicit about it? I'm sorry that I don't understand; I am just so naive about anything related to money.
What would it mean if I were to click one of the buttons that says BUY on the Open Sell Orders? What would happen?

Quite honestly if you are five years old, you shouldn't be using BTCJam.  It is basically a way to get a loan from your peers, or a way to offer a loan to your peers.

I fully understand how BTCJam works, as I have invested quite wisely and made a good chunk of change with my investments while it seems like a lot of people have invested poorly and lost a lot. However, this new feature really confuses me and I would like some kind soul to please explain it thoroughly to me. I do not think that is too much to ask.

[sal002]

Gotcha.  I misunderstood your question.  To me BTCJam is a black box anyways as it lacks a lot of transparency on details (interest rate calcs, payments, principal balances).  One may never know what goes on there.

[Tulkas]

I'm not the most knowledgable when it comes to bitcoins and BTCJAM, or really anything having to do with money, so I am a little confused about what this new "notes" thing is. Could someone please explain it to like as though I am five years old?

We will announce it properly with a FAQ page very soon, but we have really great news and the final preparations are taking up our time.

With the note marketplace you can sell the receivables you have from other people. It's basically selling debt, in practice the remaining payments for the loan will be sent to the buyer of the note, not the original investor.

This can be useful in several cases, for example, if you made an investment but need the money back because you had some unexpected expense. Or the borrower is late and you wan't to transfer the risk to someone else.

[creativex]

Well the last borrower I had that was still paying has gone missing. I have one payment remaining on my own loan and then I'm wiping all traces of btcjam from my systems, this has been an expensive lesson in currency volatility and still people seem to be funding unsecured loans.

[sal002]

Well the last borrower I had that was still paying has gone missing. I have one payment remaining on my own loan and then I'm wiping all traces of btcjam from my systems, this has been an expensive lesson in currency volatility and still people seem to be funding unsecured loans.

You might also want to verify your payments were calced correctly.  Mine were overcalced.

[creativex]

Well the last borrower I had that was still paying has gone missing. I have one payment remaining on my own loan and then I'm wiping all traces of btcjam from my systems, this has been an expensive lesson in currency volatility and still people seem to be funding unsecured loans.

Stop with your FUD, I only fund unsecured loans cause I can assume risk, and I interview and actually talk to the people and research. So goodbye little kid, and let the big boys make make there money.

You must be dumb as a rock. The site admin just acknowledged a HUGE problem when he demonstrated a global drop in repayments of 1.4% over less than two weeks. Who's spreading FUD?

There are posters on several threads that acknowledge they've defaulted because they cannot afford to buy the coins to repay. Please follow these simple directions.

1) Think
2) Speak

When you reverse these steps stupid stuff comes out.