[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[maincoon]

Best advice steer clear of BTCJam...total fraud at this point. Try building a rep up over on BTC Pop or Getline... something with a more active and communicative community that actively help each other point out and prevent scams, BTCJam is in its death throws and will be hopefully soon dead and buried...Serious investors are leaving or have left which is probably why Jam had to lower your rating in order to generate more interest in your loan with the promise of a better return.

Thank you for getline information.
https://getline.in/u/1925

Thanks for kind words. Active community at chat.getline.in is making GetLine different. We are also very picky at approving borrowers and not giving stars to anybody. But if you want to build rep Getline is way to go

What is stopping "Scammers" by gently build up their rep with small loans, then once they have good rep, loan large amounts then run away with the funds? 

Exactly, rep means nothing. Cause not only people who intent to scam, actually scam. There re bunch of people who ask for a loan with full intention to repay it. Then somebody unpredictable happen and they stop paying. Negative rep s not going to prevent them from doing this if they have no other option. Even if you differentiate and out of 10 loans, 1 becomes non performing, you re gonna lose money. So, unless there is some form of collateral, stay away.

Good advice...I am watching one guy on getline right now who is just teetering on going full scam...he has debts all over and keeps borrowing from getline to pay off his other arrears on Pop and Jam (and who knows elsewhere...eventually it will explode in his face) I do not think he started with an intention to scam- but he is a bullshit artist and wants everyone to think he is a master of industry when in fact he sometimes can`t get a payment in on a 2 BTC loan. Best stick to loans with collateral and if not make sure the purpose for the loan makes sense: investments in crypto should be like investments in fiat: if you don't know about what you are investing in  then don't invest!!

Can you provide link to his getline profile?

[1714164536]

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[btiAndy]

Best advice steer clear of BTCJam...total fraud at this point. Try building a rep up over on BTC Pop or Getline... something with a more active and communicative community that actively help each other point out and prevent scams, BTCJam is in its death throws and will be hopefully soon dead and buried...Serious investors are leaving or have left which is probably why Jam had to lower your rating in order to generate more interest in your loan with the promise of a better return.

Thank you for getline information.
https://getline.in/u/1925

Thanks for kind words. Active community at chat.getline.in is making GetLine different. We are also very picky at approving borrowers and not giving stars to anybody. But if you want to build rep Getline is way to go

What is stopping "Scammers" by gently build up their rep with small loans, then once they have good rep, loan large amounts then run away with the funds?  

Exactly, rep means nothing. Cause not only people who intent to scam, actually scam. There re bunch of people who ask for a loan with full intention to repay it. Then somebody unpredictable happen and they stop paying. Negative rep s not going to prevent them from doing this if they have no other option. Even if you differentiate and out of 10 loans, 1 becomes non performing, you re gonna lose money. So, unless there is some form of collateral, stay away.

Good advice...I am watching one guy on getline right now who is just teetering on going full scam...he has debts all over and keeps borrowing from getline to pay off his other arrears on Pop and Jam (and who knows elsewhere...eventually it will explode in his face) I do not think he started with an intention to scam- but he is a bullshit artist and wants everyone to think he is a master of industry when in fact he sometimes can`t get a payment in on a 2 BTC loan. Best stick to loans with collateral and if not make sure the purpose for the loan makes sense: investments in crypto should be like investments in fiat: if you don't know about what you are investing in  then don't invest!!

Can you provide link to his getline profile?

Talking about dsmillie, he comes up in the top five on getline because of the high interest rate he promises... take a serious look at his business plan and you will see he is nothing but a used car salesman!

[btiAndy]

Dear Tulkas,

Everytime I make a withdrawal the system rightly says that I must hold back .0005 for the network fee. This is acceptable and understood from the terms of service. However, when the transfer is sent it deducts an additional .0005 from the desired transfer amount and then leaves the already allocated .0005 account balance hanging in the account.

When I wish to withdraw .01 from my account I wish to withdraw the full .01 from my account, not .0095 as occurs now.

Please fix this Problem. I am no longer an active user on Jam and wish to eventually close out my account once all of my Notes are sold. Leaving even a few Cents worth of Bitcoin in my account on your site just pisses me off in the end.

Please confirm when this problem has been fixed.

[Pro Gamers]

Dear Tulkas,

Everytime I make a withdrawal the system rightly says that I must hold back .0005 for the network fee. This is acceptable and understood from the terms of service. However, when the transfer is sent it deducts an additional .0005 from the desired transfer amount and then leaves the already allocated .0005 account balance hanging in the account.

When I wish to withdraw .01 from my account I wish to withdraw the full .01 from my account, not .0095 as occurs now.

Please fix this Problem. I am no longer an active user on Jam and wish to eventually close out my account once all of my Notes are sold. Leaving even a few Cents worth of Bitcoin in my account on your site just pisses me off in the end.

Please confirm when this problem has been fixed.

Widthrawal fee is 0.0005 of you want to widthraw 0.01 in full you have to add 0.0005 for the fee so it should be 0.0105 to avoid charging from your desired amount.

[btiAndy]

Dear Tulkas,

Everytime I make a withdrawal the system rightly says that I must hold back .0005 for the network fee. This is acceptable and understood from the terms of service. However, when the transfer is sent it deducts an additional .0005 from the desired transfer amount and then leaves the already allocated .0005 account balance hanging in the account.

When I wish to withdraw .01 from my account I wish to withdraw the full .01 from my account, not .0095 as occurs now.

Please fix this Problem. I am no longer an active user on Jam and wish to eventually close out my account once all of my Notes are sold. Leaving even a few Cents worth of Bitcoin in my account on your site just pisses me off in the end.

Please confirm when this problem has been fixed.

Widthrawal fee is 0.0005 of you want to widthraw 0.01 in full you have to add 0.0005 for the fee so it should be 0.0105 to avoid charging from your desired amount.

@Pro Gamers, not what I am saying here. I understand the basic math of allocating a network fee, what is happening here is as follows:

Let's say I have an account balance of .0110. I click the withdrawal button and the dialogue comes up with the information that of my .0110 account balance, .0105 is able to be withdrawn, the remaining .0005 is used to cover the network fee. The dialogue also explicitly says that BTCJam does not have a service fee for withdrawals, .0005 is only to cover the network fees. It does not allow me to enter .0110 and then make the deduction, it only allows me to enter the maximum allowable amount as displayed in the dialog box at .0105.

When I enter .0105 in the withdrawal screen and click send I discover that the .0005 is actually removed from the transfer amount, leaving the actual transfer amount of .01. 0005 remains in my account; this essentially means there is no practical way to transfer the full balance of the account as this .0005 is always retained by BTCJam.

[Pro Gamers]

Dear Tulkas,

Everytime I make a withdrawal the system rightly says that I must hold back .0005 for the network fee. This is acceptable and understood from the terms of service. However, when the transfer is sent it deducts an additional .0005 from the desired transfer amount and then leaves the already allocated .0005 account balance hanging in the account.

When I wish to withdraw .01 from my account I wish to withdraw the full .01 from my account, not .0095 as occurs now.

Please fix this Problem. I am no longer an active user on Jam and wish to eventually close out my account once all of my Notes are sold. Leaving even a few Cents worth of Bitcoin in my account on your site just pisses me off in the end.

Please confirm when this problem has been fixed.

Widthrawal fee is 0.0005 of you want to widthraw 0.01 in full you have to add 0.0005 for the fee so it should be 0.0105 to avoid charging from your desired amount.

@Pro Gamers, not what I am saying here. I understand the basic math of allocating a network fee, what is happening here is as follows:

Let's say I have an account balance of .0110. I click the withdrawal button and the dialogue comes up with the information that of my .0110 account balance, .0105 is able to be withdrawn, the remaining .0005 is used to cover the network fee. The dialogue also explicitly says that BTCJam does not have a service fee for withdrawals, .0005 is only to cover the network fees. It does not allow me to enter .0110 and then make the deduction, it only allows me to enter the maximum allowable amount as displayed in the dialog box at .0105.

When I enter .0105 in the withdrawal screen and click send I discover that the .0005 is actually removed from the transfer amount, leaving the actual transfer amount of .01. 0005 remains in my account; this essentially means there is no practical way to transfer the full balance of the account as this .0005 is always retained by BTCJam.

Im sorry to hear that, it was never happened to me when i was using the service although im no longer using it after many complaints about scammers. That was the last time i used the widthraw and unlikely to what is happening to you i only got deducted 0.0005 for the fee. If its a new modus let us see.

[mauriek]

I need some suggestion here guys, thank you

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1708176.new#new

[Tulkas]

Mauriek, as our support have explained, your account had the email changed by using our "change email" feature that requires the user to have access to the previous email to complete the process.

We also offer 2FA but it was not enabled.

We cannot prevent an attacker if the account is not properly secured and the attacker has access to the users email, if you want extra security please enable 2FA.

[Nathan047]

Lets say someone runs off with the funds what will you do beside just ip ban them?

That's what the verification process is about, scammers will not succeed on creating multiple high score verified accounts, so care must be taken when lending to non-verified members.

So say a Tor user got a verified account through the black market (whether it was the account or just the methods of verifying it), is there any kind of insurance offered by BTCJam?

[btiAndy]

Mauriek, as our support have explained, your account had the email changed by using our "change email" feature that requires the user to have access to the previous email to complete the process.

We also offer 2FA but it was not enabled.

We cannot prevent an attacker if the account is not properly secured and the attacker has access to the users email, if you want extra security please enable 2FA.

What Tulkas, you still have support staff over there? Figured all your employees would have fucked off by now...aren't you finished now, close this thread and bury whats left of BTCJam in the ground you drove it into.

[Kanati]

I am wondering whether BTCjam (Ovo Cosmico Inc...) will disappear with a whimper and just pull the plug on the website, or with a bang when the Venture Capitalists on Jams "World Class Investor" list (https://btcjam.com/about) initiate a feeding frenzy to recoup some their squandered cash (I don't think they will use arbitration awards from Dhami Law Firm ).

Seriously though, I doubt that Jam even has any real assets for the V.C. Sharks to go after(?). The platform has become a mausoleum for bad loans, no new loans have been posted there for a looooong time. The domain name can't be worth much after Jam stopped issuing loans to U.S. borrowers, and New York State rejected their bit license application (source: http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/new-york-state-department-of-financial-65574/). Now BTCjam has something close to zero goodwill or future left in the English speaking part of the planet. The BTCjam corporate domicile address in San Francisco's pricey financial district was probably rented, so there would be no property to go after.

It would not surprise me one bit if Ovo Cósmico LTDA in Brazil turns out to be a holding company for the U.S. Ovo Cosmico Inc, and corporate money was already funneled offshore. Since Jam is privately funded they are not required to disclose very much about themselves publicly. From Google -

https://pitchbook.com/profiles/ovo-cosmico-profile-investors-funding-valuation-and-analysis
http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=249167836

Is there anyone here with a law background that has insight into how Jam might be liquidated, and what legal status (if any..) the hundreds of notes/delinquent loans on the website would have?

[derpy_frogs]

BTCJAM really can't be long for the world. No new listings in a month. Plus, I'm not too sure that doxxing debtors and encouraging people to publicly shame/contact them is legal... after all there are rules to play by when you collect a debt.

[Kanati]

Looks like Kevin Palley is throwing in the towel  ...

From: Kevin Palley
Subject: Important Notice - Site Closure
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017

To:  All BTCjam Investors seeking collection of unpaid loans

After more than a year of my best efforts, including expenditure of funds, resources and retaining staff for the purpose of pursuing these debts, I have come to the conclusion that the vast amount of time, money, and other resources already spent with more required to try to collect these delinquent bitcoin debts from defiant debtors without the support of the original lending platform, especially as the platform no longer lends funds in the United States, can no longer be justified. Sadly therefore, I am ceasing operations as of May 10, 2017.

The money for the few debts that I have been successful in collecting have been distributed among the rightful investors.

Finally, I want to thank all of you for giving this effort a chance. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

- Kevin Palley

I'm sorry to him go, but after everything BTCjam has (NOT...) done I totally understand his decision!

[Kanati]

Looks like BTCjam is finally circling the toilet. Here is a paraphrase of their blog announcement   (https://blog.btcjam.com/):

BTCJam is closing

BTCJam began with one mission: To help others while we help ourselves.

In the past four years we have serviced more than 20,600 loans in 122 countries, totaling more than 64,000 Bitcoins. We have transferred wealth from thousands of stupid investors around the world and are proud that we helped our disadvantaged and opressed borrowers screw them out of their bitcoins.

We firmly believe the words of the great P.T. Barnum that a sucker is born every minute. That said, we have made the difficult decision to close BTCJam. The heat from  Bitcoin regulatory efforts and the difficulties we face from legal challenges and investor lynch mobs around the world are simply beyond our capacity.

No new loans can be made from today onward, and if by some miracle you still have any Bitcoin left stored with us, you have until July 1, 2018 to withdraw it, if you can.

All borrowers with active loans can keep defaulting on them normally. The repayment functionality will remain available until all the loans have either reached their term and either been fully repaid or have defaulted. After that, the website will be reduced to a simpler version that will only show our middle finger, and any remaining balance will be tranferred to our new domicile in Rio de Janeiro.

We extend sincere thanks to all our suckers, borrowers, collaborators, chumps, and everyone else who believed in our dream of working together to rob lenders without borders. It’s a mission we still believe in.

Team BTCJam.

[btiAndy]

Looks like BTCjam is finally circling the toilet. Here is a paraphrase of their blog announcement   (https://blog.btcjam.com/):

BTCJam is closing

BTCJam began with one mission: To help others while we help ourselves.

In the past four years we have serviced more than 20,600 loans in 122 countries, totaling more than 64,000 Bitcoins. We have transferred wealth from thousands of stupid investors around the world and are proud that we helped our disadvantaged and opressed borrowers screw them out of their bitcoins.

We firmly believe the words of the great P.T. Barnum that a sucker is born every minute. That said, we have made the difficult decision to close BTCJam. The heat from  Bitcoin regulatory efforts and the difficulties we face from legal challenges and investor lynch mobs around the world are simply beyond our capacity.

No new loans can be made from today onward, and if by some miracle you still have any Bitcoin left stored with us, you have until July 1, 2018 to withdraw it, if you can.

All borrowers with active loans can keep defaulting on them normally. The repayment functionality will remain available until all the loans have either reached their term and either been fully repaid or have defaulted. After that, the website will be reduced to a simpler version that will only show our middle finger, and any remaining balance will be tranferred to our new domicile in Rio de Janeiro.

We extend sincere thanks to all our suckers, borrowers, collaborators, chumps, and everyone else who believed in our dream of working together to rob lenders without borders. It’s a mission we still believe in.

Team BTCJam.

Respect...nicely summarized!

[P2Pfinder]

Have little lost on JAM (about 5% of my invested amount) so i could say i was luky.

Actually bitcoin lending market offer is really poor, only available are:

- Bitbond
- Getline
- BTCpop
- Stemfund
- Xcoin

But only the first tree work better: stemfund as i wrote is not known (but i made some little profit there)  and Xcoin is not open to all country (and by using paypal as collateral is really risky).

[Kanati]

Have little lost on JAM (about 5% of my invested amount) so i could say i was luky.

Actually bitcoin lending market offer is really poor, only available are:

- Bitbond
- Getline
- BTCpop
- Stemfund
- Xcoin

But only the first tree work better: stemfund as i wrote is not known (but i made some little profit there)  and Xcoin is not open to all country (and by using paypal as collateral is really risky).

I was a member of Bitbond for a while but never made any loans there since the lending terms were actually worse than at BTCjam, they also had many of the same scammy default artists as borrowers who became famous on BTCjam.

I have also maintained an account with BTCpop throughout their turbulent history (see here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042299.0 and here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1393297.0 and here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1435851.0 for details), but I don't trust them. They still have my 0.4 BTC languishing "BTCpop collections" since January 2016, and even if BTCpop did manage somehow to collect from the Vietnamese Thief who took them I'm not sure that I would hear from them about it.

The other three you mention are unknown to me, and shall remain unknown to me  . I earn much more trading than I ever did lending, and at considerably less risk.

BTCjam R.I.P..
Let the record show that unsecured P2P lending is a failed concept.

[nrd525]

The only method that has worked is secured lending using exchanges and lending to margin traders.  That said - it can still be very risky due to the potential for hacks, a flash crash or spike (and inability to liquidate positions) or insiders running off with your money.  And often the BTC lending rate has been very low (ex. 2% APR).   Recently it has been very high (notably on Poloniex) due to the alt-coin bull market.

[statdude]

Is this site out of biz now?

[suwandichen13]

what kind identity verification will you need? can be more specific? pASsport id?