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Tulkas (OP)
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April 18, 2013, 03:35:29 AM |
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Well ok 0.5 btc late fee per payment, that is not enough, what do I get from that! Nothing?
Phil
On the contrary, the late fee goes 100% to investors. |
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Tulkas (OP)
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April 18, 2013, 03:37:36 AM |
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Just FYI, I work at a lender and have worked with many others, and this is how it's typically done:
If an early payment or an extra payment is made, next payment amount doesn't change. What changes is the outstanding balance, which gets recalculated at the time the payment is received. The end result is just that the loan gets paid off easily. That automatic outstanding balance recalculation shouldn't be too difficult to add in software, and since only the payoff date changes, lenders should still have time to look for other loans.
On rare occasions some loans do have scheduled interest instead of simple interest, in which case you can prepay early, but the interest schedule doesn't change. Typically those loans specify that exactly when you sign up for the loan, however, those loans are extremely uncommon now. The last time I saw one was in 2002, and it was an old loan that we were refinancing for someone.
Yes, this is a great solution since the lender can look for other opportunities, sounds it's the way to go. |
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Newar
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
https://gliph.me/hUF
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April 18, 2013, 06:52:25 AM |
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It's only possible to rate a user once? Even I had several investments with him?
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sal002
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April 18, 2013, 11:58:37 AM |
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Just FYI, I work at a lender and have worked with many others, and this is how it's typically done:
If an early payment or an extra payment is made, next payment amount doesn't change. What changes is the outstanding balance, which gets recalculated at the time the payment is received. The end result is just that the loan gets paid off earlier. That automatic outstanding balance recalculation shouldn't be too difficult to add in software, and since only the payoff date changes, lenders should still have time to look for other loans.
On rare occasions some loans do have scheduled interest instead of simple interest, in which case you can prepay early, but the interest schedule doesn't change. Typically those loans specify that exactly when you sign up for the loan, however, those loans are extremely uncommon now. The last time I saw one was in 2002, and it was an old loan that we were refinancing for someone.
+1 |
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dance4x
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April 18, 2013, 12:40:20 PM |
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About the 0.0045 left on the account, its yours, we will not touch it, we do not allow zero fee transactions because they can take a long time to be processed and we think miners deserve the fee.
The fee processing code will be updated soon to handle full withdraw. I'm sorry for your inconvenience, if you need the 0.0045 right now please PM me and i will send it to you.
Any new information on that update to let users withdraw all of their bitcoins from BTCJAM? |
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yellowdog213
Newbie
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Activity: 32
Merit: 0
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April 18, 2013, 02:02:58 PM |
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It's only possible to rate a user once? Even I had several investments with him?
You can delete your rating and create a new one to reflect the newer investments you have had. |
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wolongong
Member
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Activity: 66
Merit: 10
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April 23, 2013, 09:13:55 PM |
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But my point on that is the terms of the loans DO NOT make it clear that prepayments DO NOT have an impact on the calculation of interest. So, by default, people who prepay are overpaying if you are not adjusting the total amount they pay.
No, they are not overpaying as the natural interest of the deflationary bitcoin is negative. Before even being compensated for the time value of money I need to charge 33% risk premium just to cope with the 25% default risk on this site. I understand you don't want to pay interest over money not owed, but otoh it is also common to pay a fee for early redemption. |
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sal002
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April 23, 2013, 10:23:42 PM |
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But my point on that is the terms of the loans DO NOT make it clear that prepayments DO NOT have an impact on the calculation of interest. So, by default, people who prepay are overpaying if you are not adjusting the total amount they pay.
No, they are not overpaying as the natural interest of the deflationary bitcoin is negative. Before even being compensated for the time value of money I need to charge 33% risk premium just to cope with the 25% default risk on this site. I understand you don't want to pay interest over money not owed, but otoh it is also common to pay a fee for early redemption. Most consumer loans do not have an early payment penalty nowadays, but if it is agreed to in advance it can apply. However, it is not on BTCJam. In simple math, they are overpaying until there are terms that expressly state prepayment is not allowed. Your other points are valid from a risk management perspective, but not from an actual agreed upon terms perspective. I have contacted the owner of BTCJam several times with my straight calculations showing the overpayment that is occurring, yet the loan terms still allow this. It is especially important in the terms of my loan which was 2% every 7 days for 90 days for an 11 BTC Loan. I made substantial payments in the beginning reducing the principal available for the interest rate calculation, yet I still end up paying the same as if I held on to the money longer. That runs contrary to the fact their is interest and was not expressly stated at the outset. By my calculations, I have already overpaid, but BTCJam has one more payment left. However, all lenders have had their money back earlier than had I held on to it, and could have invested in other loans. Fact is, BTCJam is doing a poor job on defining its loan terms which will lead to issues if it ever tries to become reputable and force collections on defaults. There are a reason there are a lot of terms on normal consumer loans, including credit cars and other short-term loans are more than a paragraph. If BTCJam cares at all about collectability, it will emulate a lot of what sites like Prosper.com has done (including putting together a formalized promissory note like the one at http://www.prosper.com/legal/promissory-note-sample/). Right now, it seems to encourage poor behavior and the owner feigns ignorance. Rant done. |
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yellowdog213
Newbie
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Activity: 32
Merit: 0
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April 26, 2013, 01:16:59 PM |
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Is anyone else have any problems with issuing notes? I have previously issued a sell order successfully, but now when I click 'issue sell order' absolutely nothing happens. I have tried various times with different loans over the past two days and nothing happens--no pop-up or page change or anything (I don't remember what had happened before, but still something should probably happen...)
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wolongong
Member
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Activity: 66
Merit: 10
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April 26, 2013, 07:23:14 PM |
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Same here..
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supermono
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April 27, 2013, 01:29:47 AM |
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Same here. I successfully created a few notes on April 15, but I tried to create another one a few days ago, and it was no longer working.
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supermono
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April 27, 2013, 03:31:42 AM |
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I just tried to invest in a note in the marketplace, and it said "You need to verify your personal information before trading notes". I previously purchased a note on April 9 with no problem... Are unverified investors not allowed to buy notes anymore? Just invest in loans themselves during initial funding? We ARE still allowed to invest in loans, right?
I like some of the new features I have seen implemented over the last few months, but it would be nice if we could read about policy and feature changes in this thread and on the BTCJam homepage, and/or get an email notice about them, instead of randomly encountering them.
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Shermo
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April 27, 2013, 11:44:17 AM |
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It's looking as though Ziggap has died, assuming they default on their BTCJam loan that will dwarf all the other defaults as it currently has a lot outstanding.
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yellowdog213
Newbie
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Activity: 32
Merit: 0
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April 27, 2013, 02:11:25 PM |
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I just tried to invest in a note in the marketplace, and it said "You need to verify your personal information before trading notes". I previously purchased a note on April 9 with no problem... Are unverified investors not allowed to buy notes anymore? Just invest in loans themselves during initial funding? We ARE still allowed to invest in loans, right?
I like some of the new features I have seen implemented over the last few months, but it would be nice if we could read about policy and feature changes in this thread and on the BTCJam homepage, and/or get an email notice about them, instead of randomly encountering them.
Agreed. These changes occur so quickly with absolutely no information about them. It would be great if there was an FAQ page or something similar on the homepage that has information about all new features. |
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Nancarrow
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April 28, 2013, 06:05:53 AM |
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Question about the BTC deposit addresses: it says they're only valid for 24h. What happens if a user sends BTC to a deposit address that has expired? Because one current late payer is claiming that's what they did and why they're late. And that sounds like BS to me. Surely you keep the private keys to expired addresses?
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If I've said anything amusing and/or informative and you're feeling generous:
1GNJq39NYtf7cn2QFZZuP5vmC1mTs63rEW
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pentix
Newbie
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Activity: 76
Merit: 0
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April 28, 2013, 12:00:56 PM |
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Question about the BTC deposit addresses: it says they're only valid for 24h. What happens if a user sends BTC to a deposit address that has expired? Because one current late payer is claiming that's what they did and why they're late. And that sounds like BS to me. Surely you keep the private keys to expired addresses?
this question was addressed earlier in this thread. he said something like you might still get your btc but it's not guaranteed. |
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Miademora
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
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April 28, 2013, 12:41:27 PM |
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I didnt get my btc last time due to some auto payout setting
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Tulkas (OP)
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April 28, 2013, 12:51:56 PM |
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Question about the BTC deposit addresses: it says they're only valid for 24h. What happens if a user sends BTC to a deposit address that has expired? Because one current late payer is claiming that's what they did and why they're late. And that sounds like BS to me. Surely you keep the private keys to expired addresses?
This is only to prevent people from storing the address, all private keys are stored. |
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Tulkas (OP)
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April 28, 2013, 12:53:29 PM |
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Same here. I successfully created a few notes on April 15, but I tried to create another one a few days ago, and it was no longer working.
To trade notes the user must have his identity verified, sorry about the poor (missing) help page. This will probably change in the future, it is related to the arbitration agreement. |
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sal002
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April 29, 2013, 01:01:52 AM |
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Has anyone tried opening up an arbitration thru judge.me? I am not sure the exact process to do it for BTCJam (since that is the arbitration method that is now specified in the terms of use). I tried going to their site, but they say there is a fee ($299) and I am not certain if that is split between BTCJam and the person seeking arbitration and the terms of use are unclear.
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