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Author Topic: Nefario  (Read 198249 times)
psilan
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October 06, 2012, 04:12:35 AM
 #121

So why do people want to hide their identities?

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keystroke
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October 06, 2012, 04:18:08 AM
Last edit: October 06, 2012, 04:40:18 AM by keystroke
 #122

So why do people want to hide their identities?
They value their privacy.

Edit: And what firefop said below Smiley

"The difference between a castle and a prison is only a question of who holds the keys."
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October 06, 2012, 04:19:23 AM
 #123

So why do people want to hide their identities?

Because if 'the feds' are targeting an exchange, the next step is to go after the users of the exchange, I'd encourage everyone to just take the loss and move on... as that's the only sane thing to do.

Bitcoin Oz
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October 06, 2012, 04:23:46 AM
 #124

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

What nonsense. I hold a very small percentage of user funds. 600-800 BTC. He can't even start paying back users without that? And I already said I'd send that part to him. He hasn't given me an address yet.

I wouldnt call it voting so much as pointless agreement since it wouldnt have changed the outcome.

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October 06, 2012, 04:25:09 AM
 #125


He didn't inform me. He illegally spent GLBSE user deposits with the expectation that he would replace this money from the BitcoinGlobal treasury later. Which he's unfortunately correct about -- I can't withhold the money from him when this means that there won't be enough money for GLBSE users.

But GLBSE doesn't have a lot of money (only about 600 BTC IIRC). If he continues paying for stuff, this money will run out.

Could you clarify this a bit please theymos.  How did he have access to the user deposits?  If he was "borrowing" them without authorisation, that's straight up embezzlement regardless of whether he intended to return them at a later time.  When did the shareholders become aware that he was spending user deposits and how did you become aware of his intention to replace them with money from BitcoinGlobal?  I'm confused about whether the shareholders effectively authorised him taking a "loan" from the business post hoc by agreeing that he would pay back the misappropriated funds from BG money.

I hate to say it, but if you send Nefario user funds knowing full well that he has already misappropriated funds, you're laying yourself wide open to liability. His access to funds needs to be blocked and a way of returning user deposits worked out which doesn't involve Nefario.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 06, 2012, 04:28:10 AM
 #126

STOP U GUYS THERE'S A COMPANY AT STEAK!!!

When Nefario blackmailed me & the IceHill team by saying he'd unlock our securities if we allowed a swap option, he kept writing "equity steak." I've never forgiven him for repeatedly writing "steak" -- if nothing else, he needs a scammer tag for that.

inb4 "oh, look who's talking!"

(ETA: Fwiw, Nefario's been pretty helpful with me in solving problems since then)
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October 06, 2012, 04:31:46 AM
 #127

GLBSE should have been a black market operation, no offense. The fact that the founder is known and visible and that the exchange is centralized is a big red flag.
Thats no magic bullet.  It may be protective against "omg regulators exist; PANIC!" ... but it greatly increases exposure to  "Hm. Think I'll just take everyone's funds."

"securely anonymous" identity is cheap... and it must be cheap if anonymity is to be functionally available for people... so an operator of such a venue could just open up a second supposedly independently run clone and when people start to trust the second a bit they just pop the first and vanish with the funds. People then switch to the second, and they quitely spin up a third. etc.

The better advice is don't skirt laws when you're not pre-prepaired to deal with the consequences; and don't put your funds with obvious centralization targets which aren't at least making comforting sounds about their legal status.  (I've cautioned people about various webwallets which offer secondary services like "mixing" and gambling frontends as risk factors— asset seizure for these other things will give you a bad day none the less).
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October 06, 2012, 04:35:44 AM
 #128

Nefario was a family man. He has a wife. Possibly kids.

Him chickening out in the face of the government is expected. We should of known.
Tell us then, what would you do in the face of potential serious convictions over a bitcoin enterprise?

Shrug?

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 06, 2012, 04:42:10 AM
 #129

Could you clarify this a bit please theymos.  How did he have access to the user deposits?  If he was "borrowing" them without authorisation, that's straight up embezzlement regardless of whether he intended to return them at a later time.  When did the shareholders become aware that he was spending user deposits and how did you become aware of his intention to replace them with money from BitcoinGlobal?  I'm confused about whether the shareholders effectively authorised him taking a "loan" from the business post hoc by agreeing that he would pay back the misappropriated funds from BG money.

I hate to say it, but if you send Nefario user funds knowing full well that he has already misappropriated funds, you're laying yourself wide open to liability. His access to funds needs to be blocked and a way of returning user deposits worked out which doesn't involve Nefario.

Nefario has always held onto most of the user funds so he could top up the hot wallet when necessary. Exactly what funds I should hold was never clearly-defined. I ended up holding all BitcoinGlobal cash on hand plus some of the user funds for when Nefario was away and the hot wallet needed to be refilled.

I assume he's spending user deposits. Maybe he's using his own money, but I don't think he has enough to cover lawyer fees. He said in the meeting that he wants BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer.

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October 06, 2012, 04:54:48 AM
 #130

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"We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order."


Nefario put this up on glbse.com


What does it mean? what does he want from theymos?

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October 06, 2012, 05:03:34 AM
 #131

What a fuster cluck. Will you need to ID to get your confirmation number to get assets from individual issuers?
Bitcoin Oz
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October 06, 2012, 05:07:23 AM
 #132

What a fuster cluck. Will you need to ID to get your confirmation number to get assets from individual issuers?

I hope you can see what assets you are holding so you now which to contact.

I had several accounts for different purposes.

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October 06, 2012, 05:08:39 AM
 #133

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GLBSE has been closed

I'm sorry to inform all our users that GLBSE is no longer able to continue operating, and has now closed.

Q: What does this mean if I'm an issuer?

We will do everything in our power to make the process of moving off GLBSE as smooth as possible, we are currently working on a simple, safe, and easy to use method that will allow you to continue your relationship with your asset holders

Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold.

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

Quoted from GLBSE.com
It must be put up by Nefario.

No ID, AML, KYC requirements.

What does the last paragraph mean?

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psilan
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October 06, 2012, 05:31:28 AM
 #134

So why do people want to hide their identities?

Because if 'the feds' are targeting an exchange, the next step is to go after the users of the exchange, I'd encourage everyone to just take the loss and move on... as that's the only sane thing to do.

What's wrong with using an exchange?

dip
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October 06, 2012, 05:57:40 AM
 #135

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A Bitcoin stock exchange is a good idea, though. I hope that someone will create something better than GLBSE and MPEx.

There is something bether out there created by vircurex. Its called cryptostocks.com. You can deal not only with BTC securities but allso LTC and DVC.
Im realy glad that im positioned on https://cryptostocks.com
The identity check is optional there.

repentance
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October 06, 2012, 06:09:37 AM
 #136

I assume he's spending user deposits. Maybe he's using his own money, but I don't think he has enough to cover lawyer fees. He said in the meeting that he wants BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer.

So he's not telling you what he needs a lawyer for, but he wants BG to pay for it?  I hate to sound like a bitch, but he needs to produce evidence of the need for a lawyer first - something quite specific and in writing - and user funds can't be used to pay for it even if there is a legitimate need.  Even if BG has some of its own reserves which could be used for this purpose, they should not be channelled towards legal fees for Nefario until you have a written legal opinion stating that none of the shareholders are in legal jeopardy - otherwise you're all screwed if Nefario gets legal advice on BG's dime and you guys find yourselves facing legal problems later.

Honestly, the shareholders - and especially you - themselves need legal advice at this point.  At the very least, you want the other shareholders to indemnify you against any liability which arises as a result of you complying with their demand for you to hand funds over to Nefario.  And you want that indemnity drafted by your lawyer, not theirs.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 06, 2012, 06:22:24 AM
 #137

I assume he's spending user deposits. Maybe he's using his own money, but I don't think he has enough to cover lawyer fees. He said in the meeting that he wants BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer.
Well, it's one thing for BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer and quite another to pay the lawyer with users' money. John Corzine (CEO of MF Global) got away with it, but I don't think that Mr. McCarthy can bribe the regulators like Mr. Corzine did.

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October 06, 2012, 06:24:42 AM
 #138

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Well according to the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 you can go to fucking jail for trading on an unlicensed securities exchange. Even small exchanges that are granted an exemption from licensure must apply for a license and then seek exemption or they are breaking the law. Its crazy how many Forex traders boast about their vast knowledge of trading skills and don’t even understand the most basic laws surrounding trading. In a recent New York ruling you are fucked by mere association with someone that has committed securities fraud!

If Theymos goes to prison because of his role in running this illegal operation, what will happen to the forums?   Huh

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Bitcoin Oz
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October 06, 2012, 06:26:44 AM
 #139

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Well according to the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 you can go to fucking jail for trading on an unlicensed securities exchange. Even small exchanges that are granted an exemption from licensure must apply for a license and then seek exemption or they are breaking the law. Its crazy how many Forex traders boast about their vast knowledge of trading skills and don’t even understand the most basic laws surrounding trading. In a recent New York ruling you are fucked by mere association with someone that has committed securities fraud!

If Theymos goes to prison because of his role in running this illegal operation, what will happen to the forums?   Huh

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

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October 06, 2012, 06:31:24 AM
 #140

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Well according to the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 you can go to fucking jail for trading on an unlicensed securities exchange. Even small exchanges that are granted an exemption from licensure must apply for a license and then seek exemption or they are breaking the law. Its crazy how many Forex traders boast about their vast knowledge of trading skills and don’t even understand the most basic laws surrounding trading. In a recent New York ruling you are fucked by mere association with someone that has committed securities fraud!

If Theymos goes to prison because of his role in running this illegal operation, what will happen to the forums?   Huh

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

So something is only illegal if you're told to stop and you don't?  I mean, it doesn't pass the smell test, but I also don't know anything about the laws regarding securities. 
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