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Author Topic: Nefario  (Read 198253 times)
Mushoz
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October 06, 2012, 08:47:02 AM
 #181

Nefario has defrauded me and others in several different ways and deserves a scammer tag.

- He has stated that he would ignore any motion to remove him as CEO.

One thing I constantly warn people about is self-censorship. If you think it is a good thing to remove Nefario as CEO, then put up a motion, and let him ignore it and take responsibility for this. By not putting up a motion because "he would ignore it", you are simply letting him go on as CEO.

Please do not censor yourself, and do what you think is right for GLBSE regardless of what you think Nefario might do then. That could protect you in the future.

(disclaimer: I don't have any coin or share on GLBSE)

Theymos, please read this post. I also urge you not to give any BTC to Nefario. Thanks.

www.bitbuy.nl - Koop eenvoudig, snel en goedkoop bitcoins bij Bitbuy!
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October 06, 2012, 08:48:42 AM
 #182

I haven't had the chance to make it through this whole thread, but if any of you were at the conference and saw the GLBSE talk, you would understand pretty quickly why it can't actually last in the long run. I asked some pretty pointed questions in the Q&A that essentially convinced me GLBSE would never work.

a) They publicly said in one form or another they would purposefully avoid laws that would regulate them. He thought this meant future legislation that  might come into force and then GLBSE would just move to another jurisdiction. However existing  financial regulations probably already cover them. The kicker was, he didn't have any idea about that.

b) anonymity can't work for stocks. Users can never be sure they aren't actually just investing in GLBSE itself, IE: GLBSE could just make fake companies and list it self and take the money paying out interest a-la ponzi scheme. They are the market itself so they would be in an excellent position to convince people the securities were fabulous deals.

c) they really didn't seem to know much about financial services: maybe it was nerves in front of the crowd, but a good deal of basic financial terminology escaped the speaker.

d) they didn't have a lawyer yet, nor had wanted to talk to a lawyer.

It's a good idea, but it's an already well regulated field. If we're going to have Bitcoin stock exchanges, either someone has to come up with some super clever way of doing it (micro-lending?) that gets around the obvious problems AND legalities, or it needs to be run like a real stock exchange, in which case it's going to get regulated by the state.

If people don't want to be regulated, it needs to be based somewhere other then the UK.

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October 06, 2012, 08:49:12 AM
 #183

Nefario has defrauded me and others in several different ways and deserves a scammer tag.

- He has stated that he would ignore any motion to remove him as CEO.

One thing I constantly warn people about is self-censorship. If you think it is a good thing to remove Nefario as CEO, then put up a motion, and let him ignore it and take responsibility for this. By not putting up a motion because "he would ignore it", you are simply letting him go on as CEO.

Please do not censor yourself, and do what you think is right for GLBSE regardless of what you think Nefario might do then. That could protect you in the future.

(disclaimer: I don't have any coin or share on GLBSE)

Theymos, please read this post. I also urge you not to give any BTC to Nefario. Thanks.

afaik: as he already paid his lawyer with user funds that would mean that not all users get their btc.
do you really want that?
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October 06, 2012, 08:57:28 AM
 #184


((...snip...))

As I had proposed in another thread, the claim codes should...

((...snip...))

Any better ideas?

((...snip...))


Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.


WHAT!??! SRSLY?!?!  Cheesy  Shocked  Huh  Roll Eyes

...

For comic relief, I'm just pointing this out:

((person 1)) ... blah blah ... secure process ... prove you own shares ... continue doing business ... Any better ideas?

((person 2)) Get one person to (( submit Anti Money Laundering documentation)) for lots of different accounts for a cut.

...



Now that's what I call a (( REALLY BAD )) plan:

This plan should be called the "let's pile a bunch of money together, launder it and then... oh crap the feds are here we're all screwed" plan:


...



@bitcoin.me

Thanks, I needed that laugh. The GLBSE shutdown was making me sad.

How is that different to people selling pirate debt ?

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October 06, 2012, 09:02:36 AM
 #185

The closing of GLBSE is a big kick to the bitcoin economy and also to the image that bitcoin is giving to the rest of the world.

Lately, lots of problem have ocurred in the bitcoin economy the thing with pirate, bitcoinica and now this.
As a person that believes that bitcoins have a big potential, I'm extremely afraid of this. Each of these events (closing of GLBSE, BS&T, etc.)
makes the bitcoin economy closer to the cliff. Maybe the next big fail in the bitcoin world could push it down the cliff and then it's all lost.

And why?
Because mediocre people are put in front of important points of the bitcoin economy. And that's what happened to Nefario in my opinion.

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October 06, 2012, 09:07:37 AM
 #186

The closing of GLBSE is a big kick to the bitcoin economy and also to the image that bitcoin is giving to the rest of the world.

Lately, lots of problem have ocurred in the bitcoin economy the thing with pirate, bitcoinica and now this.
As a person that believes that bitcoins have a big potential, I'm extremely afraid of this. Each of these events (closing of GLBSE, BS&T, etc.)
makes the bitcoin economy closer to the cliff. Maybe the next big fail in the bitcoin world could push it down the cliff and then it's all lost.

And why?
Because mediocre people are put in front of important points of the bitcoin economy. And that's what happened to Nefario in my opinion.

These closing I think are just a natural process of the 'cleaning up' of the economy. In the beginning it's not surprising to see 'mediocre' people seeing an opportunity that isn't afforded to them in other sectors. Gradually more and more talented people will see opportunity here and will join the project.

This is why I support the foundation- we need some organizational group that at least is honestly smart and knows how these things work. It's not perfect and we certainly need more then one, but it's the start of a new chapter that is long over due.

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October 06, 2012, 09:15:30 AM
 #187

Agreed on needing more than one.  If mediocre people become involved with the foundation we need a second foundation for when the first fails.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 06, 2012, 09:59:30 AM
 #188

You can't have a market regulated strictly by market consumers i.e. a free market until you have a small group of thugs enforcing their arbitrary rules through the use of violence. You just can't.

Face it. We are at war and it's being waged against every single person who dares to have the audacity to think they are free to live, free to own and control their own body and free to own and control their property. And until this war persists, anyone who wants to act on their beliefs they must do so only if and when they understand the consequences of dong so, that living by what they believe in will put them at war and that they are going to be attacked for it. It's the only way people will start taking the necessary precautions that will allow them to operate and survive this war.

The SR route sounds like the only way one can find such protection right now so someone better start figuring out how to offer an investment platform service like that.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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October 06, 2012, 10:24:03 AM
 #189

The closing of GLBSE is a big kick to the bitcoin economy and also to the image that bitcoin is giving to the rest of the world.

Lately, lots of problem have ocurred in the bitcoin economy the thing with pirate, bitcoinica and now this.
As a person that believes that bitcoins have a big potential, I'm extremely afraid of this. Each of these events (closing of GLBSE, BS&T, etc.)
makes the bitcoin economy closer to the cliff. Maybe the next big fail in the bitcoin world could push it down the cliff and then it's all lost.

And why?
Because mediocre people are put in front of important points of the bitcoin economy. And that's what happened to Nefario in my opinion.

These closing I think are just a natural process of the 'cleaning up' of the economy. In the beginning it's not surprising to see 'mediocre' people seeing an opportunity that isn't afforded to them in other sectors. Gradually more and more talented people will see opportunity here and will join the project.

This is why I support the foundation- we need some organizational group that at least is honestly smart and knows how these things work. It's not perfect and we certainly need more then one, but it's the start of a new chapter that is long over due.

I think there is room for another foundation - something like "Bitcoin privacy and freedom foundation", the true opposite of  industry driven "Bitcoin foundation".

Gods sent us a powerful tool - cryptography - to fight with those who are trying to exploit us. USE IT!!
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October 06, 2012, 10:43:40 AM
 #190

"Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold."


But I cant remember the assets I hold, or even my username it was all autosaved, we need access even if all transactions are locked out in order to get the information.

Does anyone have a list of the issuers?
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October 06, 2012, 10:48:19 AM
 #191

"Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold."


But I cant remember the assets I hold, or even my username it was all autosaved, we need access even if all transactions are locked out in order to get the information.

Does anyone have a list of the issuers?
you should be able to see your auto saved username through your browsers settings. or even your sign up emails. i am assuming the list of your assets and account balance will be emailed to you. when you give your email username and btc address.
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October 06, 2012, 10:58:18 AM
 #192

Pirateat40 did the community a favor by defaulting sooner rather than later.  All this trouble was going to happen eventually.   By happening now it has reduced the damage.
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October 06, 2012, 11:02:50 AM
 #193

Quote
you should be able to see your auto saved username through your browsers settings. or even your sign up emails. i am assuming the list of your assets and account balance will be emailed to you. when you give your email username and btc address.

I think hes saying you can assume your investment with the issuer if you give the issuer your email user and btc addressa so they can carry on business without the interface of glbse. However we dont have any information on the issuers in order to contact them in the first place, so its immposible to do whats being asked, unless we can either access glbse or glbse emails each user with all their details.

This obviously should of happened anyway, for if someone doesnt check the website they would be none the wiser anyway, its either complete incompetence or theft.

Does anyone have the email for contacting glbse?
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October 06, 2012, 11:14:02 AM
 #194

Quote
you should be able to see your auto saved username through your browsers settings. or even your sign up emails. i am assuming the list of your assets and account balance will be emailed to you. when you give your email username and btc address.

I think hes saying you can assume your investment with the issuer if you give the issuer your email user and btc addressa so they can carry on business without the interface of glbse. However we dont have any information on the issuers in order to contact them in the first place, so its immposible to do whats being asked, unless we can either access glbse or glbse emails each user with all their details.

This obviously should of happened anyway, for if someone doesnt check the website they would be none the wiser anyway, its either complete incompetence or theft.

Does anyone have the email for contacting glbse?


support@glbse.com

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October 06, 2012, 11:18:59 AM
 #195

email support@glbse.com

However we dont have any information on the issuers in order to contact them in the first place, so its immposible to do whats being asked, unless we can either access glbse or glbse emails each user with all their details.

You are not being asked to contact the issuer. They are working on a way (some sort of system) for the issuer and share holder to continue cooperating. you just need to "reveal your email. username and BTC address...".

see the bolded text below.
Quote
Q: What does this mean if I'm an issuer?

We will do everything in our power to make the process of moving off GLBSE as smooth as possible, we are currently working on a simple, safe, and easy to use method that will allow you to continue your relationship with your asset holders

Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold.
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October 06, 2012, 11:44:45 AM
 #196

Bring back my 8 coins for registering, you bitch!
http://blockchain.info/tx/cbd725daba2b782e76b6bf9bf04ccf1b38d0fe8252be135e8bca41e4b5cb299a
 You agent Fed, first created a startup, then robbed him. The purpose of the mission - to discredit project. You agent Fed, like many here, you - enemy BTC.
None of my investors was hurt, I did not buy assets there. Before directly you shut down a site I posted this. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115376.msg1244477#msg1244477

Donate me) 16f6iWHHkVEnDReeBQPT9GwCNwUfPTXrp2
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October 06, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
 #197

Bring back my 8 coins for registering, you bitch!
http://blockchain.info/tx/cbd725daba2b782e76b6bf9bf04ccf1b38d0fe8252be135e8bca41e4b5cb299a
 You agent Fed, first created a startup, then robbed him. The purpose of the mission - to discredit project. You agent Fed, like many here, you - enemy BTC.
None of my investors was hurt, I did not buy assets there. Before directly you shut down a site I posted this. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115376.msg1244477#msg1244477

can somebody translate this to English?  I wasn't aware that gibberish was an actual dialect.
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October 06, 2012, 12:09:55 PM
 #198

Bring back my 8 coins for registering, you bitch!
http://blockchain.info/tx/cbd725daba2b782e76b6bf9bf04ccf1b38d0fe8252be135e8bca41e4b5cb299a
 You agent Fed, first created a startup, then robbed him. The purpose of the mission - to discredit project. You agent Fed, like many here, you - enemy BTC.
None of my investors was hurt, I did not buy assets there. Before directly you shut down a site I posted this. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115376.msg1244477#msg1244477

can somebody translate this to English?  I wasn't aware that gibberish was an actual dialect.

That's googletranslatorish.

He seems to just have registered a company on glbse. Called Asic:russia or so:



Only to have GLBSE shutdown after taking his register fees.

That would piss me off, too.


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October 06, 2012, 12:15:42 PM
 #199


He didn't inform me. He illegally spent GLBSE user deposits with the expectation that he would replace this money from the BitcoinGlobal treasury later. Which he's unfortunately correct about -- I can't withhold the money from him when this means that there won't be enough money for GLBSE users.

But GLBSE doesn't have a lot of money (only about 600 BTC IIRC). If he continues paying for stuff, this money will run out.

Could you clarify this a bit please theymos.  How did he have access to the user deposits?  If he was "borrowing" them without authorisation, that's straight up embezzlement regardless of whether he intended to return them at a later time.  When did the shareholders become aware that he was spending user deposits and how did you become aware of his intention to replace them with money from BitcoinGlobal?  I'm confused about whether the shareholders effectively authorised him taking a "loan" from the business post hoc by agreeing that he would pay back the misappropriated funds from BG money.

I hate to say it, but if you send Nefario user funds knowing full well that he has already misappropriated funds, you're laying yourself wide open to liability. His access to funds needs to be blocked and a way of returning user deposits worked out which doesn't involve Nefario.

Theymos, as treasurer, shouldn't you be the one to disperse the funds to their rightful owners?  Why would you be sending the funds to Nefario in the first place, even if you had no knowledge of his treachery?


Theymos is selling his shares so he was told to send the coins to ColdHardMetal. Nefario was also going to send the coins. So neither theymos or nefario would actually control any coins.

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October 06, 2012, 12:19:13 PM
 #200

Theymos,

So if you want to remain anonymous, you go penniless?


Yes. It's a terrible betrayal.

The exact same thing happened with MtGox users, a while ago. Before MtGox had their ToS in place, they would hold your money ransom and force you to identify yourself to get it back. Nobody had been formally prevented of this. Some people honestly believed they could operate anonymously, as there was nothing saying they could not, and all of he sudden, "a terrible betrayal".
I've protested many times in the occasion, saying MtGox should at least give these people the chance of leaving with their money, if they did not agree to the new terms. There are many threads in this forum on this subject.

If MtGox didn't get a scammer tag due to that - what may be considered reasonable, since maybe they were being forced to act like that - giving a scammer tag to Nefario for the same kind of actions would be a double standard.

Plus, about violating GLBSE bylaws, Nefario is no longer liable for such break of contract if he's doing so under the threat of violence. The criminal wouldn't be him, but the person/group who's forcing him to act criminally - in the case, the state, as usual.

Theymos, I understand you're pissed off by him. He made a series of bad decisions. But if this whole mess was initiated by the state, Nefario is a victim as everybody else. Try your best to be an impartial and fair judge. I honestly have the feeling Nefario is not a scammer, at least not willingly so (of course I may be wrong).
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