Nefario

[oldschool]

See, the problem with this is you guys are knowingly transferring stolen funds to people who you are not willing to disclose, you should all get scammer tags, this forum is full of crooks and it appears to be run by a crook also.

Actually, the funds transferred were BG's operating funds (shareholder investments and operating income). Nefario already has all of the client funds.

Why would he need operating income for a site thats been SHUTDOWN??

As far an I am concerned, it doesn't matter what the funds were labeled, he has stolen more than enough bitcoins to make up for his operating funds balance, that balance is the only bitcoin that is touchable as of right now by the owners of glbse and the way I see it is glbse owes a lot of people money right now, that should be distributed properly among the people who glbse owes money to.

[1714057175]

1714057175

[oldschool]

Theymos, can you tell us whether you control the ~675 BTC currently in GBLSE address 1FX22c76vybHJSJdCCjKHDHhcMDhDX87nw, or if Nefario does (or none of the above)?

I am seeing conflicting information.

I hold ~800 BTC in "anonymous" user funds. It doesn't belong to anyone in particular. If I had the GLBSE user database, I would send this BTC proportionally to all GLBSE users.

Nefario has, I would guess, 4000-8000 user BTC in total.

And I call fucking bullshit, Theymos said the funds are "anonymous user funds"  they are not operating expenses and shareholder funds.

[chrisrico]

Why would he need operating income for a site thats been SHUTDOWN??

As far an I am concerned, it doesn't matter what the funds were labeled, he has stolen more than enough bitcoins to make up for his operating funds balance, that balance is the only bitcoin that is touchable as of right now by the owners of glbse and the way I see it is glbse owes a lot of people money right now, that should be distributed properly among the people who glbse owes money to.

So, what would you prefer be done with those funds? Theymos keep them and be liable for distributing them back to customers without any information about balances?

[niko]

Although not interested so much in the scammer tag discussion I am not quite sure how would such an exchange *know* it's being illegal without there being any actual legal precedent (AFAIA bitcoins are still legally undefined)?

This is being discussed in a dozen other threads. The legal issue is actually not  related to bitcoins. The issue is that GLBSE was trading unregistered securities. Whether these were traded for dollars, or bitcoins or anything else (including swaps with other securities) doesnt even matter, as long as you accept they were traded for something of value, which bitcoin undeniably is.

Yes, but these are all opinions and fantasies of armchair lawyers like you and me.

[chrisrico]

And I call fucking bullshit, Theymos said the funds are "anonymous user funds"  they are not operating expenses and shareholder funds.

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

The address is: 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

theymos: If you feel that is a secure address, then send away.

Nefario: Note that this means all of BG's operating funds are in my
hands once they arrive at that address. If you spend any of the BTC
you are holding, you are spending client funds. While I now realize
you really don't care about the proprieties of that, I hope you will
at least try and do the right thing.

In addition, this was the beginning of the email

Nefario now seems to believe that if I'm not willing to take receipt
of the funds theymos holds I need to resign my position as
Secretary/Accountant.

As I don't really feel that's fair to the rest of you, I'm not going
to do that. All I'm really concerned with at this point is client
funds being returned, and if Nefario feels he can somehow use my
reluctance to hold these funds as an excuse to delay that, I'm forced
to take possession of them.

[oldschool]

Why would he need operating income for a site thats been SHUTDOWN??

As far an I am concerned, it doesn't matter what the funds were labeled, he has stolen more than enough bitcoins to make up for his operating funds balance, that balance is the only bitcoin that is touchable as of right now by the owners of glbse and the way I see it is glbse owes a lot of people money right now, that should be distributed properly among the people who glbse owes money to.

So, what would you prefer be done with those funds? Theymos keep them and be liable for distributing them back to customers without any information about balances?

Not have lying scammy fucks like you and some person you refuse to disclose (ColdHardMetal) have control of them so they can get hidden somewhere.  You are getting caught up in your own bullshit lies like crazy.  Who was lying, you or Theymos?  Are the funds user funds or operational funds?

At least if they stat put there is some accountability and Theymos who I thought was legit(until developments of today) could try and prove himself as legit.

[oldschool]

And I call fucking bullshit, Theymos said the funds are "anonymous user funds"  they are not operating expenses and shareholder funds.

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

The address is: 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

theymos: If you feel that is a secure address, then send away.

Nefario: Note that this means all of BG's operating funds are in my
hands once they arrive at that address. If you spend any of the BTC
you are holding, you are spending client funds. While I now realize
you really don't care about the proprieties of that, I hope you will
at least try and do the right thing.

In addition, this was the beginning of the email

Nefario now seems to believe that if I'm not willing to take receipt
of the funds theymos holds I need to resign my position as
Secretary/Accountant.

As I don't really feel that's fair to the rest of you, I'm not going
to do that. All I'm really concerned with at this point is client
funds being returned, and if Nefario feels he can somehow use my
reluctance to hold these funds as an excuse to delay that, I'm forced
to take possession of them.

So now you are admitting to lying again, that Nefario does in fact have the coins now and not the secretary(ColdHardMetal)?

[chrisrico]

Not have lying scammy fucks like you and some person you refuse to disclose (ColdHardMetal) have control of them so they can get hidden somewhere.  You are getting caught up in your own bullshit lies like crazy.  Who was lying, you or Theymos?  Are the funds user funds or operational funds?

At least if they stat put there is some accountability and Theymos who I thought was legit(until developments of today) could try and prove himself as legit.

Man, you need to chill the fuck out. I've been providing information that some would probably prefer to be kept between shareholders, and in response all I get is shit from you? Welcome to the ignore list, my friend. You're in good company.

[tvbcof]

Oh, wow. I've never had a look at satoshi's posts before.

Looking at his writing style it is very consistent with one specific member here.

So, no worries guys, Satoshi's quite alive and well and doing just fine.

I looked at some a few weeks ago to see if I could confirm or deny the assertion that he was some sort of hard-core Libertarian.  As best I could determine he was mostly focused on technical matters, at least in the text that is captured on the current forum.  The most interesting thing I found was a fairly strong desire to avoid Wikileaks, though it was stated as a concern for the health of the nascent crypto-currency solution rather than any particular political bent.

I didn't recognize a particular match with any current member, though my pattern matching skills in this area are probably sub-average.  I do feel it more than likely that the primary person behind the initial Bitcoin development would continue to have enough of an interest to remain at least occasionally involved.  Whether he would waste his time on this forum is less of a certainty.

[chrisrico]

The address is: 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

theymos: If you feel that is a secure address, then send away.

Nefario: Note that this means all of BG's operating funds are in my
hands once they arrive at that address. If you spend any of the BTC
you are holding, you are spending client funds. While I now realize
you really don't care about the proprieties of that, I hope you will
at least try and do the right thing.

In addition, this was the beginning of the email

Nefario now seems to believe that if I'm not willing to take receipt
of the funds theymos holds I need to resign my position as
Secretary/Accountant.

As I don't really feel that's fair to the rest of you, I'm not going
to do that. All I'm really concerned with at this point is client
funds being returned, and if Nefario feels he can somehow use my
reluctance to hold these funds as an excuse to delay that, I'm forced
to take possession of them.

So now you are admitting to lying again, that Nefario does in fact have the coins now and not the secretary(ColdHardMetal)?

I've added emphasis to assist with your understanding of my statement.

[theymos]

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

The motion was:

Code:

[05/10/2012 18:32:35] <nefario> I propose a motion to have theymos return the user BTC which has in his posstion for the purpose of allowing me to repay users

So I sent CHM only the amount of BTC designated as user funds. I still hold the operating funds.

[oldschool]

Not have lying scammy fucks like you and some person you refuse to disclose (ColdHardMetal) have control of them so they can get hidden somewhere.  You are getting caught up in your own bullshit lies like crazy.  Who was lying, you or Theymos?  Are the funds user funds or operational funds?

At least if they stat put there is some accountability and Theymos who I thought was legit(until developments of today) could try and prove himself as legit.

Man, you need to chill the fuck out. I've been providing information that some would probably prefer to be kept between shareholders, and in response all I get is shit from you? Welcome to the ignore list, my friend. You're in good company.

I'm now ignored for pointing out complete lies like this one:

Must not have been these funds.

May we have the public address of said paper wallet please, so that we may keep an eye on them?

I don't see any reason why this cannot be released. 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

The funds tied to that address are now in control of BG's secretary.

Which is bullshit, why send ~800btc more to be controlled by Nefario when he already has ~8000btc of illegally obtained funds?

What will giving Nefario ~800btc more do that he couldn't have done with the ~8000btc?

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario. He only accepted them reluctantly (rather than have Theymos keep them) so that Nefario would have no reason to not begin dispersing customer funds.

People need to wake up and take note of this.

[chrisrico]

My understanding is based upon the most recent email from the secretary.

The motion was:

Code:

[05/10/2012 18:32:35] <nefario> I propose a motion to have theymos return the user BTC which has in his posstion for the purpose of allowing me to repay users

So I sent CHM only the amount of BTC designated as user funds. I still hold the operating funds.

Ok, that makes sense. CHM's email was confusing, then.

[Dalkore]

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit. 

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized. 

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

[oldschool]

At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit. 

He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far.  If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized. 

I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.

Agreed.

[k3t3r]

I'm now ignored for pointing out complete lies like this one:

Must not have been these funds.

May we have the public address of said paper wallet please, so that we may keep an eye on them?

I don't see any reason why this cannot be released. 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

The funds tied to that address are now in control of BG's secretary.

Which is bullshit, why send ~800btc more to be controlled by Nefario when he already has ~8000btc of illegally obtained funds?

What will giving Nefario ~800btc more do that he couldn't have done with the ~8000btc?

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario. He only accepted them reluctantly (rather than have Theymos keep them) so that Nefario would have no reason to not begin dispersing customer funds.

People need to wake up and take note of this.

I dont see the lie, what is the lie here?

[Dalkore]

I'm now ignored for pointing out complete lies like this one:

Must not have been these funds.

May we have the public address of said paper wallet please, so that we may keep an eye on them?

I don't see any reason why this cannot be released. 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

The funds tied to that address are now in control of BG's secretary.

Which is bullshit, why send ~800btc more to be controlled by Nefario when he already has ~8000btc of illegally obtained funds?

What will giving Nefario ~800btc more do that he couldn't have done with the ~8000btc?

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario. He only accepted them reluctantly (rather than have Theymos keep them) so that Nefario would have no reason to not begin dispersing customer funds.

People need to wake up and take note of this.

I dont see the lie, what is the lie here?

Your missing the point, it doesn't matter.   What matters is that people funds are being held for pretty "thin" reasons and issuers have been given the ability to just do nothing because they don't have the records they need to move forward.   All this "he said" "she said" is dancing around the real issue and it is serving as a distraction. 

Let quit pretending to know what happened in their GBLSE shareholder meetings.   Theymos said his peace and is taking his action at this point until he get clarity along with the rest of us.   

Nefario needs to make a statement and make good on his obligations.

Sure it was odd timing on when the GBLSE shares went on the market but we don't know what was going on behind the scenes and unless you actually bought some, quit complaining.  We need to push for the right thing to happen and that is people getting paid back and issuers being able to meet their obligations. 

I feel so bad for all the users of the GBLSE.   I really do feel bad for you right now, I wish I would put on more pressure to get things moving.

[Bogart]

Regardless of the sticky issue of the user funds (which is really my chief concern here and where my vested interest lies), can we get some action on the share ownership database?

Let's see that get distributed to some trusted part(ies) who can break up the data into one set per asset issuer and hand that data over to each issuer (please).

Is there any reason not to move forward on that front?

[oldschool]

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario.

And in another post he referenced once the funds were transferred that Nefario would have complete control of them.



I don't expect you to read my posts or listen to me anyways with the crap you pulled yesterday:

however the person making this claim has in the same post as he made the claim admitted that it is fine to jump to his own concllusions with no evidence therefore IMO weaking his own allegations. If he is going to make allegations such as this after discrediting himself he should need to provide evidence if he is to be taken seriously.

Your full of false accusations and jumping to your own conclusions.  Well... who does it look like was right now?

[Dalkore]

Regardless of the sticky issue of the user funds (which is really my chief concern here and where my vested interest lies), can we get some action on the share ownership database?

Let's see that get distributed to some trusted part(ies) who can break up the data into one set per asset issuer and hand that data over to each issuer (please).

Is there any reason not to move forward on that front?

+100 - this will allow issuer and holders to start going over options.