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Author Topic: Nefario  (Read 198253 times)
Bogart
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October 06, 2012, 06:44:24 PM
 #261

Did this just get added to GBLSE?

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.


Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?

This was there when the statement was first posted.

Nef is using strong words to try and get Theymos to give him these monies, which are really our monies.

IMO, any monies he sends to Nef we can all kiss goodbye.

I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds.  He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all.  Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO.

Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded.  Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage.

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario!  Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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October 06, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
 #262

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario!  Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

Because you already know Nefario is misusing our funds, I second this.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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October 06, 2012, 06:58:38 PM
 #263

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

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October 06, 2012, 07:08:09 PM
 #264

The shit is just piling up

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October 06, 2012, 07:10:34 PM
 #265

He deserves the "King Of Scammers" tag since more or less made all the other ones possible.
O Rei do Scammers
Shit!!!!!
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October 06, 2012, 07:14:40 PM
 #266


I tried to remove him as CEO, but there wasn't enough shareholder support. 5-6 people supported removing him against three (including Nefario) who didn't, but our side didn't have enough shares for a motion. Three large shareholders weren't at the meeting, so it was difficult to get the 51% required.

Later on in the meeting, Nefario somehow managed to convince 1-2 of the people who had supported removing Nefario, which is how he was able to pass a motion to order me to give him the treasury funds. So I doubt a motion to remove Nefario is possible now even if the absent shareholders voted.

It doesn't matter anyway, since Nefario said that he would ignore the shareholders and shut down GLBSE. And shutting down GLBSE is against the bylaws, so he needs a 66% vote. He didn't even pursue a 50% vote.

What would I do with the money if I kept it? I don't have the user database.

As Nefario is in contempt of the operating bylaws, I request that the shareholder minutes and records of shareholders be posted here.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
SlaveInDebt
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October 06, 2012, 07:15:01 PM
 #267

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

"A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain." - Mark Twain
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October 06, 2012, 07:31:38 PM
 #268

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors.
Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.?
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October 06, 2012, 07:36:20 PM
 #269

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors.
Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.?

Seems more likely he does not want to work with some people anymore (asset issuers and shareholders) and make a clean scrub of his past responsibilities.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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October 06, 2012, 07:38:29 PM
 #270

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors.
Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.?

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

"A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain." - Mark Twain
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October 06, 2012, 07:47:31 PM
 #271

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong.  All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC.  Then boom, it's all gone.  I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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October 06, 2012, 07:51:14 PM
 #272

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong.  All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC.  Then boom, it's all gone.  I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

I feel your pain, sucks when a exchange confidence scam decides its time to pack up shop before the restless natives decide to burn your house to the ground. I had not even accomplished anything on the site due to their terrible customer service. And then Nefario decides to close up shop and pocket my btc.

BTC 1JASiNZxmAN1WBS4dmGEDoPpzN3GV7dnjX DVC 1CxxZzqcy7YEVXfCn5KvgRxjeWvPpniK3                     Earn Devcoins Devtome.com
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October 06, 2012, 07:57:10 PM
 #273

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong.  All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC.  Then boom, it's all gone.  I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

You became involved with an illegal activity as soon as you deposited. You got in the dirt. Not your fault for what has occurred but it's the law intervening that is at fault. Not being diligent enough to know the risk involved was yours however.

I'm not here to cast blame on anyone other than the law. Just pointing out where one's responsibility ends and where another's begins.

"A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain." - Mark Twain
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October 06, 2012, 08:01:18 PM
 #274

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong.  All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC.  Then boom, it's all gone.  I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

You became involved with an illegal activity as soon as you deposited. You got in the dirt. Not your fault for what has occurred but it's the law intervening that is at fault. Not being diligent enough to know the risk involved was yours however.

I'm not here to cast blame on anyone other than the law. Just pointing out where one's responsibility ends and where another's begins.

Where are these laws? Bitcoins has no laws, and no fiat currency was used in GLBSE.

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October 06, 2012, 08:01:32 PM
 #275

All this talk about GLBSE being illegal is nonsense. All that happened was the exchange of bitcoins, someone said its because its unregulated securities where a security is anything of value. Well if thats the case then every transaction of bitcoins is also an illegal transaction of a security, so watch out what your so quick to measure out, all those who consider themselves oh so pure.

If government wants to call it illegal then it has to first define bitcoins as a species of money or come out with an offical stance, otherwise its no different to saying you cant trade within a game.
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October 06, 2012, 08:15:32 PM
 #276

http://youtu.be/vmPD_YSQ--k

in London last month nefario talked about backups
so who will run the restored server? url please?

your ad here:
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October 06, 2012, 08:20:02 PM
 #277


You became involved with an illegal activity as soon as you deposited. You got in the dirt. Not your fault for what has occurred but it's the law intervening that is at fault. Not being diligent enough to know the risk involved was yours however.

I'm not here to cast blame on anyone other than the law. Just pointing out where one's responsibility ends and where another's begins.

Where are these laws? Bitcoins has no laws, and no fiat currency was used in GLBSE.

How where the bitcoins obtained? Through purchase with fiat sometimes?

All this talk about GLBSE being illegal is nonsense. All that happened was the exchange of bitcoins, someone said its because its unregulated securities where a security is anything of value. Well if thats the case then every transaction of bitcoins is also an illegal transaction of a security, so watch out what your so quick to measure out, all those who consider themselves oh so pure.

If government wants to call it illegal then it has to first define bitcoins as a species of money or come out with an offical stance, otherwise its no different to saying you cant trade within a game.

I'm not the law I don't know if it is or not. Grey area none the less. Maybe what we all are about find out. I would hardly consider myself pure.

The government will do as they want and iron the details out as to why later. I don't believe anyone other than Nefario knows what is going on. Could be another scam 100% with no government involvement yet. Working with what we know now government involvement seems most likely to myself at the moment could easily be wrong.

"A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain." - Mark Twain
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October 06, 2012, 08:20:41 PM
 #278

Did this just get added to GBLSE?

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.


Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?

This was there when the statement was first posted.

Nef is using strong words to try and get Theymos to give him these monies, which are really our monies.

IMO, any monies he sends to Nef we can all kiss goodbye.

I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds.  He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all.  Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO.

Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded.  Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage.

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario!  Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

No GLBSE coins not users coins.  He hasn't touched a single satoshi of users monies.  He hasn't even paid a penny in legal fees yet.  It's only fair that GLBSE (profit) coins should used to solve GLBSE legal problems.  Nafario as already lost the way he made his living.  Expecting him to cover GLBSE legal fees personally to benefit the other shareholders or else a scammer tag deserves a scammer tag.

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October 06, 2012, 08:22:29 PM
 #279

All this talk about GLBSE being illegal is nonsense. All that happened was the exchange of bitcoins, someone said its because its unregulated securities where a security is anything of value.

You should learn to read; what was said was that unregistered securities were traded for something of value (in casu, bitcoin). And that is enough to make it illegal, these securities dont have to be traded for fiat like you claimed, nor do they have to be denominated in fiat.

edit: for those that missed it:



 The term ‘‘security’’ means any note, stock, treasury
stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture,
evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation
in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate,
preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share,
investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of de-
posit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or
other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege
on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of secu-
rities (including any interest therein or based on the value
thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered
into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign cur-
rency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly
known as a ‘‘security’’, or any certificate of interest or partici-
pation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guar-
antee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any
of the foregoing.

The term ‘‘sale’’ or ‘‘sell’’ shall include every contract of
sale or disposition of a security or interest in a security, for
value
. The term ‘‘offer to sell’’, ‘‘offer for sale’’, or ‘‘offer’’ shall
include every attempt or offer to dispose of, or solicitation of
an offer to buy, a security or interest in a security, for value.

http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/sa33.pdf
legolouman
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October 06, 2012, 08:22:48 PM
 #280

Can we finally wake up and realize it's not safe to hold unregulated capital markets in centralized Web services operated by anonymous and quite possibly Nefarious individuals?


There are alternatives.  The truth is out there.

If someone can figure out how to operate anonymous corporations that are nonetheless ethical and is held responsible, they will rake in the dough.

Getting off topic, but I don't think it is possible at this point.

If you are an anonymous entity, no one will trust you.

If you are a known entity, you aren't anonymous.

It's all about the hashes.

Hashes prove you are who you say you are consistently, however an anonymous person is not necessarily accountable.


In order to get my coin back, I have to contact my security issuers? What if I can't remember them all? Why do I feel this is a bad way of going forward.

If you love me, you'd give me a Satoshi!
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