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Author Topic: Nefario  (Read 198249 times)
mc_lovin
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October 10, 2012, 12:36:03 AM
 #781

we're talking about like ~8900 BTC, like $105,000, this is a crime taking place.

If bitcoin securities are illegal because bitcoin is now officially money,

then Nefario has stolen >$100k,

and that is a crime,

and he will go to jail,

I made an appointment with my lawyer today, we'll see what he says.

You have over 100,000$ on GLBSE?

No he has an illegal gambling security on glbse  Tongue

You sure are quite a troll.  You have no right to say what is and isn't legal on GLBSE, from what I hear like 100% of the tickers on GLBSE were either legal or illegal, depends who you ask.  

No I dont. But Im sure you dont have all the registration documents for offering a security to the public.

*given what we now know.

Well, I think you remember that night when you tried to steal my idea by copy/pasting my business model on bitcointalk as your own idea?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98743.0

you said "I don't see why not" when asked if gambling securities were allowed on GLBSE.

YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

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October 10, 2012, 12:38:29 AM
 #782

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Nefario is acting independently. He stole GLBSE from BitcoinGlobal, but BitcoinGlobal still exists. I continue to hold the operating funds as treasurer (presumably to be distributed among shareholders once we're sure there are no more outstanding debts), and CHM is still acting as secretary and accountant. But Nefario is not working with us except to get the funds we have.

Have you reported this theft of customer funds you were responsible for as treasurer to the proper authorities?

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October 10, 2012, 12:42:07 AM
 #783

I am reminded of this. Nefario was fighting for his monthly wage just days before shutting down GLBSE.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

No I'm NOT ok with no wages.

Anyway, I've just spoken to the lawyer who has just heard back from
the FSA. So all this talk is moot and should wait until the meeting on
Friday, which I will be attending.

I suggest everyone be there, it's going to be essential.

Nefario.

On 02/10/12 16:51, theymos wrote:
> So you're OK with not taking a wage for September?
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Nefario wrote: I have not
> requested to be paid any wages.
>
> On 02/10/12 16:44, theymos wrote:
>>>> Nefario has requested that I pay him 269.91 BTC from the
>>>> treasury as previously agreed to by shareholders. But
>>>> considering that BitcoinGlobal's *gross* income was only
>>>> 360.33 BTC in September and BitcoinGlobal only has ~1000 BTC,
>>>> I feel that we cannot afford to lose this much money.
>>>> Therefore, I move that Nefario not be paid for September.
>>>> This would improve BitcoinGlobal's net income in September
>>>> from -657.93 BTC to -388.02.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a contract violation with Nefario because we do
>>>> not have an agreement with him to pay him BTC for his work.
>>>> We only agreed amongst ourselves to send him money.
>>>>
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Bitcoin Oz
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October 10, 2012, 12:43:05 AM
 #784

we're talking about like ~8900 BTC, like $105,000, this is a crime taking place.

If bitcoin securities are illegal because bitcoin is now officially money,

then Nefario has stolen >$100k,

and that is a crime,

and he will go to jail,

I made an appointment with my lawyer today, we'll see what he says.

You have over 100,000$ on GLBSE?

No he has an illegal gambling security on glbse  Tongue

You sure are quite a troll.  You have no right to say what is and isn't legal on GLBSE, from what I hear like 100% of the tickers on GLBSE were either legal or illegal, depends who you ask.  

No I dont. But Im sure you dont have all the registration documents for offering a security to the public.

*given what we now know.

Well, I think you remember that night when you tried to steal my idea by copy/pasting my business model on bitcointalk as your own idea?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98743.0

you said "I don't see why not" when asked if gambling securities were allowed on GLBSE.

YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

Why would it not be given all the other shit that was listed ? GLBSE was a platform not a judge of what is allowed in canada or any other geographical location you are in with its own local mafia rules.

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October 10, 2012, 12:45:34 AM
 #785

I am reminded of this. Nefario was fighting for his monthly wage just days before shutting down GLBSE.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

No I'm NOT ok with no wages.

Anyway, I've just spoken to the lawyer who has just heard back from
the FSA. So all this talk is moot and should wait until the meeting on
Friday, which I will be attending.

I suggest everyone be there, it's going to be essential.

Nefario.

On 02/10/12 16:51, theymos wrote:
> So you're OK with not taking a wage for September?
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Nefario wrote: I have not
> requested to be paid any wages.
>
> On 02/10/12 16:44, theymos wrote:
>>>> Nefario has requested that I pay him 269.91 BTC from the
>>>> treasury as previously agreed to by shareholders. But
>>>> considering that BitcoinGlobal's *gross* income was only
>>>> 360.33 BTC in September and BitcoinGlobal only has ~1000 BTC,
>>>> I feel that we cannot afford to lose this much money.
>>>> Therefore, I move that Nefario not be paid for September.
>>>> This would improve BitcoinGlobal's net income in September
>>>> from -657.93 BTC to -388.02.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a contract violation with Nefario because we do
>>>> not have an agreement with him to pay him BTC for his work.
>>>> We only agreed amongst ourselves to send him money.
>>>>
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Perhaps you could release all messages and transcripts rather than selectively releasing things to make the whistleblower look bad.  Of course he would want to appear as if it was business as usual.  I'm not sure why your plan to scam someone out of their wages is material here.

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October 10, 2012, 01:11:44 AM
 #786

Perhaps you could release all messages and transcripts rather than selectively releasing things to make the whistleblower look bad.  Of course he would want to appear as if it was business as usual.  I'm not sure why your plan to scam someone out of their wages is material here.

I would want more transcripts as well, every detail is adding to the big picture.

Whistleblower?
 
I think he's a something-else blower.  

I think you have the wrong word there.

If he was just blowing his whistle, we should be expecting our money back.

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October 10, 2012, 01:14:56 AM
 #787

What about the possibility of other current copies of the asset ownership database?  Can you comment on whether any may exist, and the possibilities of obtaining such?

I doubt the contingency plan which would have allowed shareholders to access the database still works. The plan allowed shareholders to get passwords (to the server and maybe the off-site backup service), but Nefario changed his passwords if he has any sense whatsoever. And to even try this I'd need to convince one of Nefario's two strongest supporters among the shareholders.

Nefario is acting independently. He stole GLBSE from BitcoinGlobal, but BitcoinGlobal still exists. I continue to hold the operating funds as treasurer (presumably to be distributed among shareholders once we're sure there are no more outstanding debts), and CHM is still acting as secretary and accountant. But Nefario is not working with us except to get the funds we have.

Given that things have schismed this badly, I don't think it's inappropriate to ask just who these supporters are.

I think we should know who all the GLBSE officers are, and I think that we need to hold every one of them fully responsible for our losses.

If GLBSE were still a whole entity, they could reasonably hide behind it, but the fact is that GLBSE the entity is broken.

Our management team is as follows:[/b]
CEO:nefario (ME HAHA)
Treasurer:theymos
First Secretary:ColdHardMetal
Second Secretary:BitCoinPurse

A few are listed here, though the data is old.  Can anyone tell if this list is complete and accurate?

Also I'm confused about the distinction and relationship between GLBSE and BitcoinGlobal. Huh

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October 10, 2012, 01:26:17 AM
 #788

Quote
If he was just blowing his whistle, we should be expecting our money back.

Your fastest course of action is to contact a lawyer and law enforcement to help finish what Nefario has started and bring this criminal organization down. 

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 10, 2012, 01:30:22 AM
 #789

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If he was just blowing his whistle, we should be expecting our money back.

Your fastest course of action is to contact a lawyer and law enforcement to help finish what Nefario has started and bring this criminal organization down. 

lol @ criminal organisation.

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October 10, 2012, 01:31:15 AM
 #790

That's a good idea - time for full disclosure. It's looking more and more like your 'company' was taking advantage of nef, and when he didn't get something(s) he was promised he turned the tables on you by going to the authorities and revealing your grey-market-ness.

Also - tho bitcoinglobal may have been operating at a loss -  I'm fairly certain that GLBSE was turning a tidy profit. Also the dishonestly of everyone involved in this whole fiasco shows through, when people are trying to sell shares in a defunct company (insider trading at the very best).

~

On that note - Nefario can keep the balance of my account on GLBSE, all shares I owned etc. Consider it my personal gift to Nefario for the good work he's done up to and including going to the authorities.

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October 10, 2012, 01:31:52 AM
 #791

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If he was just blowing his whistle, we should be expecting our money back.

Your fastest course of action is to contact a lawyer and law enforcement to help finish what Nefario has started and bring this criminal organization down. 


"criminal organization" that is a bold statement Rarity.  I see you dodged my earlier question to you.   Here it is encase you missed it:


Quote from: Rarity on October 09, 2012, 05:19:42 PM
That is what they claim, however the true motive is quite obviously revenge on Nefario for blowing the whistle and preventing Theymos from dumping the stock on the forums.  Had Nefario allowed that final scam to go through, Theymos would never have complained just like he never complained before about the illegal activity they were engaged in.



Rarity - How is it "obvious" that was the true motivation?  It is a theory but it is not obvious.   Also Nefario said this was a majority of his income so why would he kill his proverbial "golden goose" on purpose?

From what we can find in public record, would support that he tried to go legit and got shut down OR he had something other game plan going and this was part of it.


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October 10, 2012, 01:35:38 AM
 #792

Quote
Rarity - How is it "obvious" that was the true motivation?

Because had Theymos been pure of heart and purely motivated by the desire to end scams he would not have been a part of this illegal organization in the first place and he would not have been trying to scam people out of wages to try and extort them not to go to police and he would not have been trying to dump worthless shares on a forum he holds a position of power over.  This is the internal politics of a criminal conspiracy spilling out on the Innocent members of this forum, nothing more.

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October 10, 2012, 01:35:49 AM
 #793


Given that things have schismed this badly, I don't think it's inappropriate to ask just who these supporters are.

I think we should know who all the GLBSE officers are, and I think that we need to hold every one of them fully responsible for our losses.

If GLBSE were still a whole entity, they could reasonably hide behind it, but the fact is that GLBSE the entity is broken.

Our management team is as follows:[/b]
CEO:nefario (ME HAHA)
Treasurer:theymos
First Secretary:ColdHardMetal
Second Secretary:BitCoinPurse

A few are listed here, though the data is old.  Can anyone tell if this list is complete and accurate?

Also I'm confused about the distinction and relationship between GLBSE and BitcoinGlobal. Huh

Theymos said earlier that there are 8-9 shareholders.  We know who 4 of the shareholders are:
Nefario
Theymos
ColdHardMetal
bitcoin.me


I tried to remove him as CEO, but there wasn't enough shareholder support. 5-6 people supported removing him against three (including Nefario) who didn't, but our side didn't have enough shares for a motion. Three large shareholders weren't at the meeting, so it was difficult to get the 51% required.

Later on in the meeting, Nefario somehow managed to convince 1-2 of the people who had supported removing Nefario, which is how he was able to pass a motion to order me to give him the treasury funds. So I doubt a motion to remove Nefario is possible now even if the absent shareholders voted.

It doesn't matter anyway, since Nefario said that he would ignore the shareholders and shut down GLBSE. And shutting down GLBSE is against the bylaws, so he needs a 66% vote. He didn't even pursue a 50% vote.

What would I do with the money if I kept it? I don't have the user database.

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October 10, 2012, 01:37:17 AM
 #794

It's looking more and more like your 'company' was taking advantage of nefario (full username added), and when he didn't get something(s) he was promised he turned the tables on you by going to the authorities and revealing your grey-market-ness.

Also - tho bitcoinglobal may have been operating at a loss -  I'm fairly certain that GLBSE was turning a tidy profit. Also the dishonestly of everyone involved in this whole fiasco shows through, when people are trying to sell shares in a defunct company (insider trading at the very best).

~

On that note - Nefario can keep the balance of my account on GLBSE, all shares I owned etc. Consider it my personal gift to Nefario for the good work he's done up to and including going the the authorities.


It looks like Nefario was working with the company with a 24% ownership stake.   A member of a LLC or a Executive doesn't not need a salary in all situations.  There are many CEOs that only accept $1 as compensation because of their equity position.

Also using the statement fairly certain means nothing and just adds to speculation on your part.  This is serious so you need to do better.

Nefario likely thanks you for your gift, send him an email to make sure he knows which account has been gifted to him.

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October 10, 2012, 01:38:26 AM
 #795

Are people seriously thinking Nefario is the good guy in this?  Are you all sheep?  This has got to be some troll bait, no one can be that stupid...

In no way is Nefario anything but a crook, its just a matter of if the thief stole from his fellow thieves or if the other parties are innocent.

Nefario is the one with all the money and not talking.  This was far too quick for a government agency to get involved any more than a very tip of a start of an investigation, there was no time for gag orders or imprisonment or anything even close to causing Nefario to only have communication via his index.html page which he failed to meet his own deadline.

Come on sheep, wake up, he took your money, he is a thief and we will only see more of the truth in the coming days/weeks....
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October 10, 2012, 01:40:29 AM
 #796

Are people seriously thinking Nefario is the good guy in this?  Are you all sheep?  This has got to be some troll bait, no one can be that stupid...

In no way is Nefario anything but a crook, its just a matter of if the thief stole from his fellow thieves or if the other parties are innocent.

Nefario is the one with all the money and not talking.  This was far too quick for a government agency to get involved any more than a very tip of a start of an investigation, there was no time for gag orders or imprisonment or anything even close to causing Nefario to only have communication via his index.html page which he failed to meet his own deadline.

Come on sheep, wake up, he took your money, he is a thief and we will only see more of the truth in the coming days/weeks....

Nobody is a good guy here, but all sides have admitted Nefario is the one thief who was willing to blow the whistle and contact the authorities.  Punishing the whistleblower will only promote more scams.  Punish instead the folks who have been going out of their way to stop him by trying to extort him using his wages and launching this public smear campaign full of selective leaks of information. 

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October 10, 2012, 01:40:33 AM
 #797

Sometimes you have to let whistleblowers and informants off the hook for the greater good.  The other choice is our current path, in which we punish people for trying to end scams because the scammers request it. 

So he "blew his whistle" and ended the scam by taking our funds, in effect scamming us?  That's a good one.  I guess you consider the Greater Good to have been served by this?

Have you reported this theft of customer funds you were responsible for as treasurer to the proper authorities?

Except that theymos seemingly was not made responsible for holding those funds.  If he were, he should have them in hand right now.

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October 10, 2012, 01:41:18 AM
 #798

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Rarity - How is it "obvious" that was the true motivation?

Because had Theymos been pure of heart and purely motivated by the desire to end scams he would not have been a part of this illegal organization in the first place and he would not have been trying to scam people out of wages to try and extort them not to go to police and he would not have been trying to dump worthless shares on a forum he holds a position of power over.  This is the internal politics of a criminal conspiracy spilling out on the Innocent members of this forum, nothing more.


Is it illegal or criminal now?   Legality is something that is determined by enforcers of law, criminality is doing something with the intent to do harm or fraud.


Scam people out of wages, your the 2nd person to put this on here, where is the backup to this calm, I read the details just released, I didn't get that sense?

Until the exchange shutdown, the shares had value.


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October 10, 2012, 01:42:28 AM
 #799

Are people seriously thinking Nefario is the good guy in this?  Are you all sheep?  This has got to be some troll bait, no one can be that stupid...

In no way is Nefario anything but a crook, its just a matter of if the thief stole from his fellow thieves or if the other parties are innocent.

Nefario is the one with all the money and not talking.  This was far too quick for a government agency to get involved any more than a very tip of a start of an investigation, there was no time for gag orders or imprisonment or anything even close to causing Nefario to only have communication via his index.html page which he failed to meet his own deadline.

Come on sheep, wake up, he took your money, he is a thief and we will only see more of the truth in the coming days/weeks....

Nobody is a good guy here, but all sides have admitted Nefario is the one thief who was willing to blow the whistle and contact the authorities.  Punishing the whistleblower will only promote more scams.  Punish instead the folks who have been going out of their way to stop him by trying to extort him using his wages and launching this public smear campaign full of selective leaks of information. 

Nefario set the whole thing up in the first place so dont go bullshitting that anyone else put him up to it.

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October 10, 2012, 01:44:10 AM
 #800

Are people seriously thinking Nefario is the good guy in this?  Are you all sheep?  This has got to be some troll bait, no one can be that stupid...

In no way is Nefario anything but a crook, its just a matter of if the thief stole from his fellow thieves or if the other parties are innocent.

Nefario is the one with all the money and not talking.  This was far too quick for a government agency to get involved any more than a very tip of a start of an investigation, there was no time for gag orders or imprisonment or anything even close to causing Nefario to only have communication via his index.html page which he failed to meet his own deadline.

Come on sheep, wake up, he took your money, he is a thief and we will only see more of the truth in the coming days/weeks....

Nobody is a good guy here, but all sides have admitted Nefario is the one thief who was willing to blow the whistle and contact the authorities.  Punishing the whistleblower will only promote more scams.  Punish instead the folks who have been going out of their way to stop him by trying to extort him using his wages and launching this public smear campaign full of selective leaks of information. 

He may have contacted a lawyer, I didn't see anywhere it said he contacted the authorities or any proof of that at all.  Who knows if he was being honest about contacting a lawyer or just giving himself an excuse for needed time without talking.... regardless his deadlines are up and there is nothing that should be preventing him from explaining what is going on, if he was able to update his webpage and able to log into the forums he can comment.

Please do show me where he contacted the authorities?
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