Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud)

[hdbuck]

I never claimed that the economic majority is presently siding with XT, I am not in a position to know that, furthermore I suspect that January will be a very informative month in that regard. So you are arguing a straw man here, for the rest of your post you have not actually made any arguments.

Nobody is going to be siding with XT, so how about you stop with that 'we will see' nonsense? After the last conference it is pretty obvious where we're going. Even Hearn abandoned his project. It is time to admit defeat and move on.

More people are going to be siding with BIP101 than the BIPwaitandsee. After the last conference it is pretty obvious where we're going.

You seriously need to lay the pipe down. That crystal getting to your head.

BIP101 has been abandoned by even one of its most ardent defender:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011875.html

The 1MB-joke has also been abandoned by some 1MB proponents. Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

The 1MB is not a joke, it is still in place..

[1715691928]

1715691928

[1715691928]

1715691928

[1715691928]

1715691928

[1715691928]

1715691928

[Carlton Banks]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

[tl121]

The core developers absolutely do believe the market should decide upon the blocksize limit and direction of the codebase. I have never heard the argument from one of them that their should only be one implementation and people should be restricted to only using their repisitory.

I recall some discussions a while ago in which  one core developer defended a single reference implementation as defining Bitcoin.  As I recall, there were two separate discussions, one why the alternative approach used by the IETF (protocol specifications) was not appropriate to bitcoin and another indicating the risks of network forks due to alternate implementations, e.g. btcd.  I have not seen any change in this viewpoint in the form of public documents or forum posts.

[tl121]

I'd like to send a big warm middle finger to:

1. All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin. If 8mb was designed to be for 2 years, I guess they will shut up for 1 year, with 4x more transactions in 1mb blocks, and let the fee market develop.

This is a shell game being played by technocrats who are trying to fool the rubes.  The solution involves an accounting change of what is to be counted as belonging in a block.  It does not affect the amount of data that needs to be transmitted across the network and verified quickly by the nodes.

[Zarathustra]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

I paint jtoomim and jgarzik as people who could organize a compromise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vxb89/jonathan_toomim_can_kick_proposal_block_size/cxricv5

[Carlton Banks]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

I paint jtoomin and jgarzik as people who could organize a compromise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vxb89/jonathan_toomim_can_kick_proposal_block_size/cxricv5

Who?

[Zarathustra]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

I paint jtoomin and jgarzik as people who could organize a compromise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vxb89/jonathan_toomim_can_kick_proposal_block_size/cxricv5

Who?

Who, if not them? I'm leaning more toward a divorce. The difference between the two sides is too big:

http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=672

[brg444]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

I paint jtoomin and jgarzik as people who could organize a compromise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vxb89/jonathan_toomim_can_kick_proposal_block_size/cxricv5

Who?

Who, if not them? I'm leaning more toward a divorce. The difference between the two sides is too big:

http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=672

That's what we were waiting for all along. So.. when do you fork off? Maybe VeritasSapere can help you with the whitepaper?

[Zarathustra]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

I paint jtoomin and jgarzik as people who could organize a compromise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vxb89/jonathan_toomim_can_kick_proposal_block_size/cxricv5

Who?

Who, if not them? I'm leaning more toward a divorce. The difference between the two sides is too big:

http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=672

That's what we were waiting for all along. So.. when do you fork off? Maybe VeritasSapere can help you with the whitepaper?

We will fork you off, but not tonight, dear.

[hdbuck]

Some people are now ready for a compromise, some are not.

Are you seriously trying to paint yourself as compromising? You've easily been the most intransigent debater on bitcointalk.org by an exceptionally wide margin for several months.

I paint jtoomin and jgarzik as people who could organize a compromise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vxb89/jonathan_toomim_can_kick_proposal_block_size/cxricv5

Who?

Who, if not them? I'm leaning more toward a divorce. The difference between the two sides is too big:

http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=672

That's what we were waiting for all along. So.. when do you fork off? Maybe VeritasSapere can help you with the whitepaper?

We will fork you off, but not tonight, dear.

[gmaxwell]

I paint jtoomim

You're going to need a lot of paint, because misrepresenting the relative software complexity of blocksize increases and Segwit is not a great start: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vwalg/andreasmantonopoulos_on_twitter_this_presentation/cxs5g2g?contex=1

[Zarathustra]

I paint jtoomim

You're going to need a lot of paint, because misrepresenting the relative software complexity of blocksize increases and Segwit is not a great start: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vwalg/andreasmantonopoulos_on_twitter_this_presentation/cxs5g2g?contex=1

It's pretty obvious that jtoomim and jgarzik are better suited to organize a compromise than a gmaxwell. That you are not interested is crystal clear. Thanks for the confirmation.
I also think a fork of the so called community would be better. You cannot have good relations with a side who is supported by censors, DDoSers, node fakers and cheerleaders who are in complicity with such practices.

[hdbuck]

I paint jtoomim

You're going to need a lot of paint, because misrepresenting the relative software complexity of blocksize increases and Segwit is not a great start: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vwalg/andreasmantonopoulos_on_twitter_this_presentation/cxs5g2g?contex=1

It's pretty obvious that jtoomim and jgarzik are better suited to organize a compromise than a gmaxwell. That you are not interested is crystal clear. Thanks for the confirmation.
I also think a fork of the so called community would be better. You cannot have good relations with a side who is supported by censors, DDoSers, node fakers and cheerleaders who are in complicity with such practices.

what are you still doing here?

[Carlton Banks]

I paint jtoomim

You're going to need a lot of paint, because misrepresenting the relative software complexity of blocksize increases and Segwit is not a great start: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vwalg/andreasmantonopoulos_on_twitter_this_presentation/cxs5g2g?contex=1

It's pretty obvious that jtoomim and jgarzik are better suited to organize a compromise than a gmaxwell. That you are not interested is crystal clear. Thanks for the confirmation.
I also think a fork of the so called community would be better. You cannot have good relations with a side who is supported by censors, DDoSers, node fakers and cheerleaders who are in complicity with such practices.

what are you still doing here?

Zara's a masochist par excellence, he is constantly spitting vitriol about how contemptible he finds Bitcoin users, yet he spends nearly every waking minute amongst them so he can tell them.

Maybe you'd get more out of life, Zara, if you did things that you do like, with people that you like also? It would improve your ability to get along with others a great deal.

[Zarathustra]

I paint jtoomim

You're going to need a lot of paint, because misrepresenting the relative software complexity of blocksize increases and Segwit is not a great start: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vwalg/andreasmantonopoulos_on_twitter_this_presentation/cxs5g2g?contex=1

It's pretty obvious that jtoomim and jgarzik are better suited to organize a compromise than a gmaxwell. That you are not interested is crystal clear. Thanks for the confirmation.
I also think a fork of the so called community would be better. You cannot have good relations with a side who is supported by censors, DDoSers, node fakers and cheerleaders who are in complicity with such practices.

what are you still doing here?

Zara's a masochist par excellence, he is constantly spitting vitriol about how contemptible he finds Bitcoin users Pseudo bitcoin users,

You have to be a bit masochistic if you want to fight against pseudo-bitcoiners (Cheerleaders of censorship/DDoS/faked nodes/Front National and all such disgusting things).

[sgbett]

I'd like to send a big warm middle finger to:

1. All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin. If 8mb was designed to be for 2 years, I guess they will shut up for 1 year, with 4x more transactions in 1mb blocks, and let the fee market develop.

This is a shell game being played by technocrats who are trying to fool the rubes.  The solution involves an accounting change of what is to be counted as belonging in a block.  It does not affect the amount of data that needs to be transmitted across the network and verified quickly by the nodes.

Perhaps there is an implicit assumption here that network/bandwidth constraints as a proxy for increased centralisation risk is not all its cracked up to be.

What I do like is that segwit does address the very valid concern of people parking everything including the kitchen sink in the blockchain, which is direct threat to how many transactions can fit in a block (and therefore TPS).

Also, what?: "All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin"

That would be like me saying that all the 1MB people think that increasing the blocksize should not be any part of scaling the blockchain. OF course they don't, do they?

[Carlton Banks]

Also, what?: "All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin"

That would be like me saying that all the 1MB people think that increasing the blocksize should not be any part of scaling the blockchain. OF course they don't, do they?

bett, you talk the largest amount of shit out of almost everyone.

XT proponents dismissed every other proposition for any reason they could think of, they rejected:

• Lightning
• Decreasing the block interval
• 2-4-8
• IBLT
• Separating tx blocks from coinbase blocks
• Dynamic cap
• Countless others I cannot recall currently

"XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin" is what this thread has largely been about, you and others variously rejected a whole catalogue of more credible/responsible scaling schemes.

Oh, and what a surprise; another XT shit-talker (you, bett) has come back to say: "XT wasn't so bad!". What next? Presumably: "Have you considered that XT was the answer all along?"

[sgbett]

Also, what?: "All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin"

That would be like me saying that all the 1MB people think that increasing the blocksize should not be any part of scaling the blockchain. OF course they don't, do they?

bett, you talk the largest amount of shit out of almost everyone.

XT proponents dismissed every other proposition for any reason they could think of, they rejected:

• Lightning
• Decreasing the block interval
• 2-4-8
• IBLT
• Separating tx blocks from coinbase blocks
• Dynamic cap
• Countless others I cannot recall currently

"XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin" is what this thread has largely been about, you and others variously rejected a whole catalogue of more credible/responsible scaling schemes.

Oh, and what a surprise; another XT shit-talker (you, bett) has come back to say: "XT wasn't so bad!". What next? Presumably: "Have you considered that XT was the answer all along?"

Dearest Carlton, I have never *ever* said larger blocks is the only way. I have categorically stated the opposite on many occasions. Which begs the question are you even listening?

Let me make it clear, I think we need bigger blocks and I backed XT as the only solid implementation.

I love IBLT, if I was a shit hot bitcoin coder I would be all over it but I'm just some crappy rails dev so I'm not.
I think LN is a good idea and is probably in fact *Necessary*

Decreasing the block interval is just bigger blocks. 2-4-8 is bigger blocks. Dynamic Cap is bigger blocks. Gimme an implementation already!?

Separating tx from coinbase I don't know about off the top of my head, so I can't possibly have been against it.

If you are confused after this then I think it's you, not me that needs to think hard about post content.

[Carlton Banks]

Also, what?: "All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin"

That would be like me saying that all the 1MB people think that increasing the blocksize should not be any part of scaling the blockchain. OF course they don't, do they?

bett, you talk the largest amount of shit out of almost everyone.

XT proponents dismissed every other proposition for any reason they could think of, they rejected:

• Lightning
• Decreasing the block interval
• 2-4-8
• IBLT
• Separating tx blocks from coinbase blocks
• Dynamic cap
• Countless others I cannot recall currently

"XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin" is what this thread has largely been about, you and others variously rejected a whole catalogue of more credible/responsible scaling schemes.

Oh, and what a surprise; another XT shit-talker (you, bett) has come back to say: "XT wasn't so bad!". What next? Presumably: "Have you considered that XT was the answer all along?"

Dearest Carlton, I have never *ever* said larger blocks is the only way. I have categorically stated the opposite on many occasions. Which begs the question are you even listening?

bett, you're wriggling visibly.

I never said you said what you said you never said: in other words, you're using the same BS strawman tactics that your friends were so fond of using.

Tell me more about how all XT proponents were not essentially presenting one choice only or certain doom. Oh no, that's right, you were talking shit.

[Zarathustra]

Also, what?: "All the XT-folks who believed increasing the block size is the only way to scale Bitcoin"

That would be like me saying that all the 1MB people think that increasing the blocksize should not be any part of scaling the blockchain. OF course they don't, do they?

bett, you talk the largest amount of shit out of almost everyone.

XT proponents dismissed every other proposition for any reason they could think of, they rejected:

Stupid argument. Some did, most didn't.