IOTA

[Come-from-Beyond]

How would you describe your goal?

Creation of IoT industry backbone for better expansion of Jinn and preparation of the foundation for the future projects.

[iotatoken]

We can also go the same way as wikipedia (or other foundations) - gathering funds every year.

I'm looking at https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/

Amount Raised: $214,267
Goal: $1,250,000
Donors: 431

And it's also possible to get help from IOT companies using IOTA.

May be David's approach all or nothing is too hardcore - how about this: run foundation until there is funds. If there is no funds - nobody work at foundation.

You know, view this more like funding multiple projects under foundation, not just regular job.

Stas (probably foundation member) is, for example, in Wings project. He will never spend 100% of his time on IOTA.

Indeed in the long run the plan is to have IoT companies fund the foundation as they will be members of it.

And yes, I'm very uncompromising when it comes to this due to the fact that I only have 365 days per year, I will not spend them on futile efforts. We created IOTA because it's a part of the IoT stack needed for those visions. The tech works. If the IOTA community is incapable of funding the foundation efforts after all this time then I will not be sticking around to spend several hours daily on the effort and instead move onto another strategy to enable this aspect of IoT with companies. Everyone else is free to choose their strategy, if the community decides they'll rather use the nxt approach, then that is their free choice. We offer the foundation movement as an option and the community will vote on it with donations, if enough donations is not achieved it won't happen.

Stas is not a foundation member due to his other duties, but he's still an active community member. Every foundation member must have a certain amount of dedicated hours per week, it's the first requirement, the actual foundation will be ran very strictly in this regard to ensure that the momentum keeps growing and doesn't come to a halt.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I think the problem is that for the 2nd transfer have given the same Address, but my intention was to have all my IOTA at the same address

Claim iotas again if they haven't appeared. In the worst case you'll get your share doubled.

[gernat]

I agree, a 5% premine would suit me fine.

Agree. It´s the best solution.

Agreed.

Agreed

I'm also agree. So it would be better for all. It is still possible to deduct 5% from all in Tangle. Then we could solve this problem quickly and go forward.

[bizz]

I agree, a 5% premine would suit me fine.

Agree. It´s the best solution.

Agreed.

Agreed

I also agree. So it would be better for all. It is still possible to deduct 5% from all in Tangle. Then we could solve this problem quickly and go forward.

Also agree.

[farl4web]

How would you describe your goal?

Creation of IoT industry backbone for better expansion of Jinn and preparation of the foundation for the future projects.

More future projects...?!  Exciting times! 

[Come-from-Beyond]

It is still possible to deduct 5% from all in Tangle.

It's impossible.

[gernat]

It is still possible to deduct 5% from all in Tangle.

It's impossible.

If the iotas are claimed, we can make donation and than it's stored in Tangle. Is it really impossible to deduct anyway one sum? imo that would be pity.

Maybe we can vote for it just to clarify who is agreed with it and then find a way for positive decision?

[Warren.Buffet]

if the community decides they'll rather use the nxt approach, then that is their free choice. We offer the foundation movement as an option and the community will vote on it with donations, if enough donations is not achieved it won't happen.

ICO that didn't raise enough for ongoing development, followed by a foundation & donation funding model that leads to bitterness and people leaving ... hate to tell you iotatoken but it looks like YOU already decided on the NXT approach for everyone else already

why didn't you just add a 5% premine?

will there be an IOTA 2.0 once you realise the error?

[50cent_rapper]

Are you really talking here now that there is impossible to cut 5% of your share to fund IOTA promotion  

[LitcoinCollector]

The idea behind a no premine is great.

But things can change along the way, no big deal imo.


Lets just do a 5% premine, no hastle everybody donates the same, small or big holder. It is in everybodies best interest.

I think it also will have a positive effect, since it will mean moving forward.


We are all part of this great project. I think if more that 50% wants a premine, lets do it and move on.

[iotatoken]

if the community decides they'll rather use the nxt approach, then that is their free choice. We offer the foundation movement as an option and the community will vote on it with donations, if enough donations is not achieved it won't happen.

ICO that didn't raise enough for ongoing development, followed by a foundation & donation funding model that leads to bitterness and people leaving ... hate to tell you iotatoken but it looks like YOU already decided on the NXT approach for everyone else already

why didn't you just add a 5% premine?

will there be an IOTA 2.0 once you realise the error?

The software sale was to fund IOTA development until launch.

No one is bitter here, we're creating revolutionary technology that we need for our visions, if community decide on another vision that is entirely up to the community.

But obviously we've witnessed the Nxt approach, so I urge people to make a sane choice, but it's still a choice, that's the point. WE don't force anyone, IOTA is all about participation, it's not a free ride.

The reason we didn't add a premine has been explained ad nauseam: to prevent the bystander effect from kicking in. IOTA is an open source movement that is about participation. If we had allocated a premine then we expect less participation from the community due to the perception that "it's already being taken care of".

If IOTA foundation is not established and the community goes in another direction from what we need then we'll most likely just team up with the companies we have lined up on a consortium. We'd prefer to not have to take this approach though, as we got so much momentum already in the IOTA community, but at the end of the day we created IOTA for IoT tech stack that we need, so that's our goal. IOTA is not some random political movement or speculator game, it's a technology.

[Warren.Buffet]

Are you really talking here now that there is impossible to cut 5% of your share to fund IOTA promotion  

I'll donate my 5%, but a lot wont, and it'll be messy and painful, and maybe we don't reach the target and IOTA implodes. Plenty will try and free-ride, and we're all victims of the tragedy of the commons now.

If a community decides something is needed, like hospitals, schools, roads, law courts etc they work out how much it will cost, then they devise a 'fair' and efficient system of compulsory taxation to raise that amount of money. That's the best way. Donation based funding models are much harder.

A 5% premine isn't such a bad thing IMO

[yassin54]

I agree, a 5% premine would suit me fine.

Agree. It´s the best solution.

Yeah, but it's too late. ICO with other conditions was done. Now we have to deal with it.

Agree with you, a deal is a deal!!  

Now lets go for donate to foundation!!    (if you can of course)  

Yes as I said I would mean the rules have to be changed a bit. I don't see a big problem.
Again things change, it is how you deal with these changes.

A lot of Iota holders are not very comfortable, this is what is holding up the donations.

I think there are 2 options to speed up the process:
- 5% 'premine'
or
- Iota qt client for easy sending the tokens

I have not problem for other solution, just i afraid reaction people, if rules change!! 
I want the good for IOTA!! 

[gernat]

The idea behind a no premine is great.

But things can change along the way, no big deal imo.


Lets just do a 5% premine, no hastle everybody donates the same, small or big holder. It is in everybodies best interest.

I think it also will have a positive effect, since it will mean moving forward.


We are all part of this great project. I think if more that 50% wants a premine, lets do it and move on.

Yes, I definitely agree with you

[rtrtcrypto]

I'm willing to allocate 5% of my total funds via a pre-mine as well.
rtrt

edit/ps. one thing that still looks bad is that IOTA is said not to be an investment and it's just "software", but then the foundation is being funded only via this vehicle which is not supposed to be equity and/or cash. This is a bit like microsoft asking for donations in windows 95 cd roms only. Still think an option for BTC/ETH/etc donation should be made possible.

I agree, a 5% premine would suit me fine.

Agree. It´s the best solution.

Yeah, but it's too late. ICO with other conditions was done. Now we have to deal with it.

Agree with you, a deal is a deal!!  

Now lets go for donate to foundation!!    (if you can of course)  

Yes as I said I would mean the rules have to be changed a bit. I don't see a big problem.
Again things change, it is how you deal with these changes.

A lot of Iota holders are not very comfortable, this is what is holding up the donations.

I think there are 2 options to speed up the process:
- 5% 'premine'
or
- Iota qt client for easy sending the tokens

I have not problem for other solution, just i afraid reaction people, if rules change!!  
I want the good for IOTA!!  

[banqueiro]

and if foundation does not happen, what then? Does IOTA continue?

Yes, but no further engagement from CfB, David, Stas or Dominik Schiener. It's than completely up to the community to develop and marketing IOTA further. One hope is of course, CfB and David need a working IOTA as Software for Jinn. So I expect it will be silent but still somehow developed.

I still have the opinion that a solution like Lisk and Waves have done, would have been the better one (put premine aside for the foundation).
But because that is not possible I will donate now more than I have entered in the Excel sheet to make the foundation happen.

seriously? .... just do a premine of 5% and get on with it guys, why all this angst with voluntary 'donations' and 'speculators are evil' nonsense.

common sense says if you guys need 5% or it's game over, then ffs why didn't you say this before the IPO

I can understand why (psychologically) it is the best solution to ask for the needed donations from the community, as it shows engagement, support, it would clearly show that the community recognises and honours the great works being developed in IOTA (and it is undoubtful that these are amazing good and competent works).

The only thing I don't feel comfortable with is the way this donation request has been put (I am sincere when I say I feel menaced with the way the community "leaders" started to behave after the donation issue was brought). In such situations I naturally tend to dissent... oh boy, I don't accept being totally subject to my country's government threats, why would I submit to any others?

But, still, I understand that this is simply a "communication problem", and I prefer to believe that their intention is not threatening. OK. So, I told myself: overcome all this and do your best for the community.

I hope all other sincere IOTA community members will have the wisdom to make their best decision.

Anyway, even though the best case scenario would be the community recognition by the needed donations, if there is no other way, I agree that the "premine" solution above would be the rational one. And if there's an eventual "lack of recognition" from the community, this recognition will surely come when IOTA proves itself.

I would only like to request that people here abandoned this hypocritical "speculator" talk, for it helps nothing to the cohesion of the community. The community should grow, and not shink

Peace will bring us much more fruits than fights.

[Warren.Buffet]

if the community decides they'll rather use the nxt approach, then that is their free choice. We offer the foundation movement as an option and the community will vote on it with donations, if enough donations is not achieved it won't happen.

ICO that didn't raise enough for ongoing development, followed by a foundation & donation funding model that leads to bitterness and people leaving ... hate to tell you iotatoken but it looks like YOU already decided on the NXT approach for everyone else already

why didn't you just add a 5% premine?

will there be an IOTA 2.0 once you realise the error?

The software sale was to fund IOTA development until launch.

No one is bitter here, we're creating revolutionary technology that we need for our visions, if community decide on another vision that is entirely up to the community.

But obviously we've witnessed the Nxt approach, so I urge people to make a sane choice, but it's still a choice, that's the point. WE don't force anyone, IOTA is all about participation, it's not a free ride.

The reason we didn't add a premine has been explained ad nauseam: to prevent the bystander effect from kicking in. IOTA is an open source movement that is about participation. If we had allocated a premine then we expect less participation from the community due to the perception that "it's already being taken care of".

If IOTA foundation is not established and the community goes in another direction from what we need then we'll most likely just team up with the companies we have lined up on a consortium. We'd prefer to not have to take this approach though, as we got so much momentum already in the IOTA community, but at the end of the day we created IOTA for IoT tech stack that we need, so that's our goal. IOTA is not some random political movement or speculator game, it's a technology.

I hope people support the foundation with donations then, but if we're all honest here, there is no 'community opinion' really, just a collection of individuals with their own private opinion. I'd rather pay 5% in a premine and watch from the sidelines myself. That's not for any other reason than there's not a lot I can contribute other than eyeballs reading and thinking. I don't have tech skills or time now. There'll be plenty like me here too, who want to support passively. If you want an amish barn raising style of input from IOTA hodlers then looks like I'm in the wrong place.

[yassin54]

Just to say everybody IOTAERS, Solidarity!!!

Check my post if you can donate some IOTA, or wait Release!!  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1216479.msg15007209#msg15007209

[WorldCoiner]

The idea behind a no premine is great.

But things can change along the way, no big deal imo.


Lets just do a 5% premine, no hastle everybody donates the same, small or big holder. It is in everybodies best interest.

I think it also will have a positive effect, since it will mean moving forward.


We are all part of this great project. I think if more that 50% wants a premine, lets do it and move on.

Yes, I definitely agree with you

If we can a solution where the users could vote, that would be the most ideal solution.
I expect most would chose the 5% premine, including myself.
If everyone can vote with his stake it would be a great solution.