2025 NBA Season

[hashrateproducts]

That is what every Filipino hopes for, Kai Sotto entering NBA. As long as he does not stop developing his game and developing his body to be better suited for NBA, I think he will be able to get into the league one day. He is still young and there is no telling what the limit is to this guy. Anyway, draft is not the only way to get into NBA. There are other great players who did not get drafted but were scouted by other teams and were offered a contract. There are plenty of chances where Kai can show his talents in the future. He should improve his minutes in his team in NBL and he can also showcase his talent come FIBA world in 2023.

Im just hoping that NBA will be more entertaining this  summer. NBA is not an easy competition for players but one needs absolute consistency in games inother to prove himself. Some players are drafted before making their debut for teams while some are lucky that they're scouted by agents inother to establish him. Kai is a promising player and many teams will open contract with him since he's a youngster and knows exactly when to come to limelight.

[danherbias07]

Sorry to say that there's no other team that Draymond Green is fit but only to Warriors. That's the problem with him, he is just effective on the court when both Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are present too.

Yes, I believe that is true. He looks good because of the players surrounding him and the play that was made by Steve Kerr especially for him as a centerpiece of it. But everyone could do that, I mean even Iguodala had the chance to make the same plays as he did when he became the Finals MVP.
Defensively he is good, other teams are targeting that kind of player.

It's nice to see Duncan Robinson being himself again after a win against the Grizzlies yesterday.
But my eyes are locked on Nikola Jovic. The rookie has so much room for improvement.
Lovely to watch Ja Morant's high-flying dunks again.

[TravelMug]

Sorry to say that there's no other team that Draymond Green is fit but only to Warriors. That's the problem with him, he is just effective on the court when both Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are present too.

Yes, I believe that is true. He looks good because of the players surrounding him and the play that was made by Steve Kerr especially for him as a centerpiece of it. But everyone could do that, I mean even Iguodala had the chance to make the same plays as he did when he became the Finals MVP.
Defensively he is good, other teams are targeting that kind of player.

Yeah, but I guess he really portray that role in the Warriors so effectively that everyone give him credit for doing that. However, we have to understand that it's only a cohesive team when they work together as a unit, when one is absent or injured they are not the Warriors that we know off.

It's nice to see Duncan Robinson being himself again after a win against the Grizzlies yesterday.
But my eyes are locked on Nikola Jovic. The rookie has so much room for improvement.
Lovely to watch Ja Morant's high-flying dunks again.

Thanks for mentioning that rookie, I will have to take a look and hope good (or bad)  he is. But so far there is hype so let's see how it goes.

[YuginKadoya]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Well it is really unprofessional to do it and while doing practice Green should be the better man here and just let the heated argument stay backstage where there are no cameras and just the two of them, but he let his emotions get to him, if that Punch would cost injury to Jordan Poole then that could be a big problem to the team, But we can not put all the blame in Draymond Green aswell because there are two sides to the coin and we don't know why Draymond Green has led in punching Poole that hard, although it is all said and done, it is for the both of them to say their sincere apologies, now that the regular season is close by,

Well, talking about Kai, I believe, this is time... taking one step at a time he gets better and better...

I also believe he still needs to improve some of his attributes, but I also have no doubts that he could be in the NBA soon, he is tall, young and has a great future ahead of him!
Gaining more experience, improving his footwork, shooting and gaining muscle mass could make a difference if he participates in the draft again

Well for me what I have seen and observed about Kai Sotto he surely got his offense and back it up with his height he surely got it all, well his footwork will eventually improve and I think he needs experience with that, but 1 thing is for sure on the exhibition game against the Oklahoma Thunders he has exposed even though he just played 8:39 minutes inside the court I really think he needs to improve his defense I think he lacks defense the NBA wants a guy who can do both offense and defense that good if he is struggling in making big with his offense defense is the key,

[gagux123]

Im just hoping that NBA will be more entertaining this  summer. NBA is not an easy competition for players but one needs absolute consistency in games inother to prove himself. Some players are drafted before making their debut for teams while some are lucky that they're scouted by agents inother to establish him. Kai is a promising player and many teams will open contract with him since he's a youngster and knows exactly when to come to limelight.

So this is an interesting variable!
I believe, many players drafted to the NBA suffer from some differences in relation to NBA basketball compared to various leagues around the world
Mainly with regard to the time of each game and also because of the number of games there are in the regular season, it is a very significant amount.

Therefore, when a player intends to migrate to the NBA, physical preparation is extremely important.

[Pamadar]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Whatever Poole's decision, it will still reflect on the entire squad. We don't know what really the reason behind it

and if we just judge it from the video, it can create two-way opinions. Green might not punch Poole if he didn't push him
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

[danherbias07]

Thanks for mentioning that rookie, I will have to take a look and hope good (or bad)  he is. But so far there is hype so let's see how it goes.

I have been following him even before the drafts and yes he is good. I think it's just a matter of how the Miami Heat could maximize his skills and how they will train him to be better.

Well it is really unprofessional to do it and while doing practice Green should be the better man here and just let the heated argument stay backstage where there are no cameras and just the two of them, but he let his emotions get to him, if that Punch would cost injury to Jordan Poole then that could be a big problem to the team, But we can not put all the blame in Draymond Green aswell because there are two sides to the coin and we don't know why Draymond Green has led in punching Poole that hard, although it is all said and done, it is for the both of them to say their sincere apologies, now that the regular season is close by,

Everyone is talking about Draymond now.
NBA fans and analysts are asking why he was so talkative when he is trash-talking players in his podcast and on Twitter. Now that he did something worse, he cannot be seen anywhere anymore. 

Some say this may not be fixed anymore.
Some say trade him.
Some say forgive and forget. It should not be a big deal because it happens.
How can they even play well if there's beef in the locker room? I bet there will be those who will take Draymond's side while others for JP.

Edit: He already talked. It's long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NqfXQyZcPI

[Japinat]

Woah, this is something new and I thought that there won't be any issue like this as it seems they have good chemistry in the team. Well, this isn't a good sign for the Warriors if one of them is acting like he's full of himself.
It's possible that they'll trade him later but with a better value since he's shown good performance during the finals. We'll see how they'll mend this ruckus that Poole has made.

And guess what, there's some rumor surfacing in the internet today that Jordan Poole allegedly said to Draymond Green that it's time to pack his things. I don't know the real reason behind their altercation but Poole should know his place and being boastful won't help his situation as that will only call another misunderstanding in the future.

Draymond Green is now facing disciplinary action and Joe Lacob is also considering a suspension to Green because of his unprofessionalism. This could be a problem to the team because they are showing some weakness and the other teams in the league will surely use that.

We're getting the sides of them, some of the news that I've read said that Poole has changed his attitude and that's why the incident happened.
But on the other side, it's said that Poole did nothing wrong and it's Draymond that's aggressive. I guess everyone will understand that Poole won't do anything bad because he's about to get a very profitable extension so, he's not in a position to compromise it.
Well, all of the news that is coming out are all speculations and we're all guessing what really happened because it's unclear. Although we've got some glimpse of it because there's the video but that's not enough to understand what's the actuality.

Good point! We don't know the whole story yet and what led Draymond Green to punch Jordan Poole, the leaked video is somehow one-sided because it only shows that Poole was assaulted and nothing shows how it started and nobody can confirm who started it before the altercation happened. Also, I think this is the first time that Green hasn't controlled himself towards his teammate. Either way, this is bad for the team.

[Russlenat]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Whatever Poole's decision, it will still reflect on the entire squad. We don't know what really the reason behind it

and if we just judge it from the video, it can create two-way opinions. Green might not punch Poole if he didn't push him
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

Green was planning on attacking him, Poole also has pride so pushing him is expected from him based on the video we saw, however, punching Poole with a very accurate shot, was unacceptable, it's pure violence. Green is really a dirty player, even his teammates are not exempted.

Now, I'm convinced that Draymond was probably the reason why Durant left the Warriors.

[yazher]

By the way, the longest suspension (86 games) for a fight in NBA history was given to Ron Artest after that famous fight during the Detroit-Pacers game in 2004. It's clear that the conflict between Green and Poole is much simpler, so the Warriors management definitely won't suspend Green for the entire season because it would be too much of a punishment for his inappropriate action. Nevertheless, I think this conflict may affect the Warriors' decision on a future contract extension with Green.

No doubt because this is clearly a sign that he doesn't respect them and he doesn't care about the franchise when he took some unnecessary action out there. I think their apologies to each other are just some kind of propaganda to make us believe that they are fine and as if nothing has ever happened. But in reality, they cannot trust each other anymore and he should be punished and face the consequences of what he has done to Jordan Poole and any other new members of the team.

[jakelyson]

[...]
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

It is a normal reaction for a person whose personal space is being invaded. You can see by how Green approaches that he intends to hurt Poole. That is why you can see other coaches also started walking near them while Green is approaching, maybe because they can already sense that there will be altercations coming. Poole should have defended himself better.

Thanks for mentioning that rookie, I will have to take a look and hope good (or bad)  he is. But so far there is hype so let's see how it goes.

I have been following him even before the drafts and yes he is good. I think it's just a matter of how the Miami Heat could maximize his skills and how they will train him to be better.

I was not aware of this rookie so his performance will have to speak for him. I will look out for him during the regular season and see if he can have a good contribution to Miami.

Edit: He already talked. It's long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NqfXQyZcPI

It is indeed a very lengthy video. Overall, he admitted that he was wrong, and he apologized. We did not get any reason why he did what he did because he does not want to change any opinions which I think was good because he is owning up to his actions and the reason is not important but what he did. Hopefully, after this, the team can move on and still have the same chemistry as before the incident.

[Pamadar]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Whatever Poole's decision, it will still reflect on the entire squad. We don't know what really the reason behind it

and if we just judge it from the video, it can create two-way opinions. Green might not punch Poole if he didn't push him
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

Green was planning on attacking him, Poole also has pride so pushing him is expected from him based on the video we saw, however, punching Poole with a very accurate shot, was unacceptable, it's pure violence. Green is really a dirty player, even his teammates are not exempted.

Now, I'm convinced that Draymond was probably the reason why Durant left the Warriors.

On that side, even there's a video stream with KD and Green. I also agree that he's the reason why KD left.

He's acting like a boss, but for sure if he will be traded or if there's no Steph and Klay around him, he can't bring this team up,
we saw that way back when Klay is not around and Steph is not 100%.

We will see how things will turn after this. Maybe they will have a solid partnership or maybe it will also be the same case with
KD, Poole might ask for a trade.,

[wheelz1200]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

I get where you are coming from but most of these guys won't ever even make $20million, no way fines can be that high for punching someone.  Agreed something needs to be done but that ain't happening.  Same thing with entire season bans won't happen either unless it's something crazy.

Draymond makes around $25,000,000 per year, and next year he'll be making $27 million (if he accepts his player option).  A $20 million dollar fine seems a bit much, but I could see suspending him for 2 weeks without pay or something along those lines, which would be about a million dollar loss for him.  Don't worry though, he'll definitely regret punching Poole come negotiation time.  He was supposed to be having a career season this year to go for a max extension, but now it looks more likely that he'll sign a lower paying deal to go to a team he wants to like the Lakers, or might even have to not accept his $27 million player option to sign with a team he wants to play for.  One thing I will say now, I don't believe that both Jordan Poole and Draymond Green will be on the Warriors next season.

That's draymond yes he makes that much but you can't scale a fine based on how much someone makes per year.  Most guys only ay a couple years and a lot of the bench players make maybe a mil a year before taxes.  20 million would bankrupt most all of these guys outside of the top 10% of the league.  Moot point though a fine like that would never be agreed upon anyway.

[stadus]

Currently, Kai Sotto's skills aren't enough to take him to the NBA and that may be the reason why he haven't got drafted recently. He got the height and advantage compared to the other players who are seeking NBA but he need to do more so that he will rise above others. Kai is now groomed up and his teammates even help him achieve his dreams. But Victor is different, teams in the league are already drooling to get him. Let's see who will be the lucky team soon.

Apparently, Kai Sotto is not really rushing he said that he will pursue his dreams even more, and will not get carried away with an easy option of getting into the NBA, but for me apparently, his offense is NBA-ready in terms of his height and movability, but of his defense, I think he has lapses that need to be fixed, his height is one of the advantages that he has, but his defense is still lacking I think he is ready in terms of offense but there is a big no for his defense, it is just one of the lapses I have seen in Kai Sotto,

I guess he just said that he's not rushing at all because he wasn't drafted but we know that he is already hoping to be a part of the NBA, things happen for a reason and clearly, it is not yet his time. He has the height advantage but that won't do nothing if he can't guard the center as he's still so thin, he needs to use this time to buff a bit so that he won't be cracked when someone wants to posterize him or get past him.

[mirakal]

......
And I have seen bad rumors about a trade too.
Draymond and Wiseman to Atlanta Hawks for Capela and John Collins

That would be a good move for the Warriors management after the incident. I mean the matter may have been contained for now but I doubt this would be forgotten. It may escalate at a later time so I don't think it's ideal to keep them together.

Draymond may be a valuable asset to the team but he's the most replaceable out of the three core.

A good move to avoid a possible altercation in the future but when it comes to their strength, trading Green doesn't benefit the team because they won't be having a reliable center anymore. Joe Lacob and Bob Myers also spoke about the altercation, they are just considering to give a Green a suspension and not a trade.

Draymond may be a valuable asset to the team but he's the most replaceable out of the three core.

Because he is the oldest and his age figure might affect the team but as I said, the franchise is not looking to trade him without getting a reliable replacement, so it's safe to assume that he will stay remain a Warrior for now.

[OgNasty]

......
And I have seen bad rumors about a trade too.
Draymond and Wiseman to Atlanta Hawks for Capela and John Collins

That would be a good move for the Warriors management after the incident. I mean the matter may have been contained for now but I doubt this would be forgotten. It may escalate at a later time so I don't think it's ideal to keep them together.

Draymond may be a valuable asset to the team but he's the most replaceable out of the three core.

A good move to avoid a possible altercation in the future but when it comes to their strength, trading Green doesn't benefit the team because they won't be having a reliable center anymore. Joe Lacob and Bob Myers also spoke about the altercation, they are just considering to give a Green a suspension and not a trade.

Draymond may be a valuable asset to the team but he's the most replaceable out of the three core.

Because he is the oldest and his age figure might affect the team but as I said, the franchise is not looking to trade him without getting a reliable replacement, so it's safe to assume that he will stay remain a Warrior for now.

Draymond plays a strong role on the team, but he's also a pretty huge liability.  As he's aged his shooting has gotten worse, making him a much less dangerous player.  I think they've got a good up and coming center in Wiseman, so I think they could stand to lose Draymond.  The problem is that he's making a ton of money and wants to make more, and everyone knows he would be much less valuable on any other team because of the way the Warriors harness his unique skillset.  Honestly, even without the incident they'd probably be better off trading him and trying to find someone else to set screens before he's completely worthless on the trading block.  As it is I don't see them getting much more than a few draft picks from the Lakers next year in a sign and trade.  Even then he'll be Westbrook part II.

[Jating]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Whatever Poole's decision, it will still reflect on the entire squad. We don't know what really the reason behind it

and if we just judge it from the video, it can create two-way opinions. Green might not punch Poole if he didn't push him
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

Green was planning on attacking him, Poole also has pride so pushing him is expected from him based on the video we saw, however, punching Poole with a very accurate shot, was unacceptable, it's pure violence. Green is really a dirty player, even his teammates are not exempted.

Now, I'm convinced that Draymond was probably the reason why Durant left the Warriors.

I think it's no secret that Draymond is part of the reason why Durant left, yes maybe KD wanted more money or have his own team or he didn't feel respected by the fans because they know that it is still Steph's team no matter what KD contribute. But there are games that KD and Draymond t is not on the page anymore by hlving arguments during the game itself. And so we might see the Warriors team or at least this kind of mood during the whole season and this could really be have a bad effect on them.

[wheelz1200]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Whatever Poole's decision, it will still reflect on the entire squad. We don't know what really the reason behind it

and if we just judge it from the video, it can create two-way opinions. Green might not punch Poole if he didn't push him
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

Green was planning on attacking him, Poole also has pride so pushing him is expected from him based on the video we saw, however, punching Poole with a very accurate shot, was unacceptable, it's pure violence. Green is really a dirty player, even his teammates are not exempted.

Now, I'm convinced that Draymond was probably the reason why Durant left the Warriors.

I think it's no secret that Draymond is part of the reason why Durant left, yes maybe KD wanted more money or have his own team or he didn't feel respected by the fans because they know that it is still Steph's team no matter what KD contribute. But there are games that KD and Draymond t is not on the page anymore by hlving arguments during the game itself. And so we might see the Warriors team or at least this kind of mood during the whole season and this could really be have a bad effect on them.

It's true with Durant but the steph, klay and draymond formula works.  And apparently this isn't new.  Draymond is known to get on the younger players.  Teams need someone to keep the team in line but not like this.  Be interesting to see the dynamic in the beginning of the season.  Poole was coming on strong last year let's see if he takes a backseat.

[btc_angela]

The attack Green did is unacceptable, the fact that we are still talking about how it should have stayed within the team is showing that NBA is still not finding the right mental health situation. Now you are expecting Jordan Poole to figure out a way to accept Green as who he is, sure Green will "apologize" if he is asked, if I know him, he won't be even doing that unless he got some stern warning and a punishment that is more severe than what he would normally get, and then he would do so but Poole would know he doesn't mean it. And he has to accept him as his teammate and move on.

I believe violence has no place in NBA, and players should be punished like whole season worths, or at least a serious amount of money, like 10-20 million, to make sure that nobody would ever try to do something like this ever again.

Whatever Poole's decision, it will still reflect on the entire squad. We don't know what really the reason behind it

and if we just judge it from the video, it can create two-way opinions. Green might not punch Poole if he didn't push him
but from the angle that we saw from the video that keeps circulating, it was Poole who pushed green first before Green
punch him. All we can do now is to wait for any update to know how Warriors will solve this gap between these two
stars.

Green was planning on attacking him, Poole also has pride so pushing him is expected from him based on the video we saw, however, punching Poole with a very accurate shot, was unacceptable, it's pure violence. Green is really a dirty player, even his teammates are not exempted.

Now, I'm convinced that Draymond was probably the reason why Durant left the Warriors.

I think it's no secret that Draymond is part of the reason why Durant left, yes maybe KD wanted more money or have his own team or he didn't feel respected by the fans because they know that it is still Steph's team no matter what KD contribute. But there are games that KD and Draymond t is not on the page anymore by hlving arguments during the game itself. And so we might see the Warriors team or at least this kind of mood during the whole season and this could really be have a bad effect on them.

It's true with Durant but the steph, klay and draymond formula works.  And apparently this isn't new.  Draymond is known to get on the younger players.  Teams need someone to keep the team in line but not like this.  Be interesting to see the dynamic in the beginning of the season.  Poole was coming on strong last year let's see if he takes a backseat.

And we can say that Poole is also a big part of their championship run with Wiggins. So yes, it will be interesting what will be the dynamics, if Poole will take this as a personal attack as a reason, this whole season will be very different for them because of this controversial fight, specially that there are videos. Maybe in the 80-90, this kind of altercation inside won't go out and you will just hear the story coming from the players and it could be distorted somewhat, but it's a different story if the video in this case was released publicly and Poole was clearly hurt by Green.

[Baofeng]

^^ I really thought that this could be a big issue for the Warriors team.

But according to Moody, after the incidence, Jordan Poole continue with his own practice for 2 hours. So that is kind of mindset that the Warriors want to see from him and not going to the media and bad mouth Green. And Draymond already made a public apology so maybe the team itself is glad that something positive is already happening from the background and put their difference aside.