[BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]

[Ytterbium]

There has already been a ruling which is more relevant to the current situation than whether or not pirate misled its investors and ran a ponzi (that is what is yet to be proven, but no one seriously doubts the outcome):

....

the judge sided with the SEC, giving Bitcoin his stamp of approval as real world money.[/i]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/08/07/federal-judge-rules-bitcoin-is-real-money/

One judge, in one case, that hasn't even gone to trial.  That was just a pre-trial motion about whether or not he could even be prosecuted. It's still not clear he'll actually be convicted. It's only relevant to that trial.  

One judge in one case in one courtroom does not make the law for the entire united states.  Let alone the entire world.

BF isn't even in the US.  What is it with people who think the SEC has global authority?

Does it matter where the site is hosted, where the operator lives, or where the business is being conducted? Similar regulations exist all over the world too.
Moreover, many of the asset issuers are in the US.

Yes, similar regulations exist around the world, but they are not identical.  Not by a long shot. Additionally the SEC cannot over-step it's bounds when it comes to the borders of the United States.  

That said, yes it's a huge problem for US asset issuers like ActM.  That's one of the reasons why I thought it was a bad investment.  It's hugely risky to do a virtual company based in the U.S.  

[crumbs]

...That said, yes it's a huge problem for US asset issuers like ActM.  That's one of the reasons why I thought it was a bad investment.  It's hugely risky to do a virtual company based in the U.S.   Belize, lol.

[AtlasONo]

Every share holder contacting the issuer is not going to help the process or speed things up, it is probably best to give them a few days(the ones you trust anyway) to sort alternatives and figure things out for themselves as i doubt BS gave them anymore notice than the shareholders.

Contacting any other parties in advance was not an option.  There should be plenty of time to figure things out.

I don't understand. What prevents you from telling us now? Did the sec put a gag order on you?

[Peter Lambert]

Paging MPOE-PR to tell us all "I told you so"

[drawingthesun]

Paging MPOE-PR to tell us all "I told you so"

I can't wait!

[pedrog]

Wait, WTF did happen while I was sleeping?

[crumbs]

Paging MPOE-PR to tell us all "I told you so"

See here.

[Pompobit]

Wait, WTF did happen while I was sleeping?

btct shuts down due th sec, all shares being dumped, owners of btc-trading and ltc trading shares are bagholders... missed something?

[pedrog]

Wait, WTF did happen while I was sleeping?

btct shuts down due th sec, all shares being dumped, owners of btc-trading and ltc trading shares are bagholders... missed something?

Catching up with this topic...

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!111!

[velacreations]

btct shuts down due th sec, all shares being dumped, owners of btc-trading and ltc trading shares are bagholders... missed something?

smart people are cashing in on cheap securities...

[Pompobit]

btct shuts down due th sec, all shares being dumped, owners of btc-trading and ltc-trading shares are bagholders... missed something?

smart people are cashing in on cheap securities...

sure, the question is, which are cheap shares and which bag shares?

If I was btc-trading-pt holder, I would have dumped to 0.00001 all my shares and bought Asicminer-pt, that have direct shares to refuge back.

But actually I only have activemining shares and I'm not sure how the things will go for those, Ken seems to have a backup plan, but who knows

[Vigil]

btct shuts down due th sec, all shares being dumped, owners of btc-trading and ltc-trading shares are bagholders... missed something?

smart people are cashing in on cheap securities...

sure, the question is, which are cheap shares and which bag shares?

If I was btc-trading-pt holder, I would have dumped to 0.00001 all my shares and bought Asicminer-pt, that have direct shares to refuge back.

But actually I only have activemining shares and I'm not sure how the things will go for those, Ken seems to have a backup plan, but who knows

ActM already has a contingency plan -> BF.

[mobile]

smart people are cashing in on cheap securities...

+1 this. Weak hands + Panic Sells = Sweet Profit  

But actually I only have activemining shares and I'm not sure how the things will go for those, Ken seems to have a backup plan, but who knows

+1 on this. I am impressed how Ken has been dealing with this situation and has definitely instilled confidence on the matter.

[Deprived]

Every share holder contacting the issuer is not going to help the process or speed things up, it is probably best to give them a few days(the ones you trust anyway) to sort alternatives and figure things out for themselves as i doubt BS gave them anymore notice than the shareholders.

Contacting any other parties in advance was not an option.  There should be plenty of time to figure things out.

I don't understand. What prevents you from telling us now? Did the sec put a gag order on you?

Let me explain what the most likely scenario is - and what the answers are then to your question and some other common ones.

Burnside retained legal counsel to advise on what to do to ensure BTC-TC was legally fine (that's already known).
His lawyers advised that there was no way he should continue doing what he's doing and that he needed to stop doing it.  And that he needed to stop doing it without creating further liability for himself.

• At that point he CAN'T explain what his lawyers advised him - as to do so involves admitting that he was breaking the law.
• And he can't sell the exchange as a going concern to anyone else - because if his lawyers told him BTC-TC was illegal then they'd also have told him that he couldn't sell it (as a going concern) to anyone else.  It's a bit like if you'd been dealing drugs : your lawyer would very strongly advise you NOT to sell your stock to some other dealer.
• And once your lawyers have told you that you must not do something then you lose the ability to claim that you believe it to be OK.  As if your lawyers strongly advise you on a course of action and you choose not to follow it they are typically going to ask you sign a statement that they advised you NOT to do what you're doing - so their ass is covered.
• He MAY be able to sell the code-base - as that isn't illegal.  But obviously he's not going to even consider doing that until the exchanges are fully shut down.

It seems highly unlikely to me that he's been told to close down by the SEC or any LE.  Were that to have happened then closure would have been more of a case of pulling the plug out than the gradual winding down that has been announced.  This feels far more like being told to stop by his own lawyers than a cease-and-desist or seizure by some government agency - they don't give you a month to sort things out in, they want immediate cessation of activity.

Although I ran multiple securities on LTD-Global/BTC-TC I was provided with no more information than the rest of you (and that IS how it should be).  As recently as yesterday I was in contact with him about sorting out a problem with the locking state of a new security I was working on.  I had, of course, already realised there was a pretty decent likelihood of BTC-TC closing or removing access from US investors/issuers - that became evident as a possibility as soon as signups/creation of securities was disabled without any explanation (plus the rushed addition of withdrawal addresses for issuers).

[velacreations]

sure, the question is, which are cheap shares and which bag shares?

the securities that had backup plans in place for something like this.  AM comes to mind.

[DrGregMulhauser]

Let me explain what the most likely scenario is - and what the answers are then to your question and some other common ones...

If I were a bettin' man, I'd bet that Deprived has nailed this explanation correctly in almost every detail.

[drawingthesun]

Paging MPOE-PR to tell us all "I told you so"

I can't wait!

Time to combine two of my favorite memes with my gimpy GIMP skills.

Thanks for the laugh in this dark hour.

[Puppet]

One judge, in one case, that hasn't even gone to trial.

Yeah its all pretty meaningless isnt. Two bitcoin stock exchanges were forced closed so far, at least one of which after consulting with lawyers, the biggest asset issuer on that exchange (giga vps) got legal counsel that concluded he couldn't legally continue the way he did,  the law clearly states these bitcoin denominated assets are securities, the SEC explicitly states it, its upheld in court now (and if you like being pedantic by ALL judges in ALL bitcoin security related cases Im aware off), but somehow it just isnt true because Ytterbium, Ytterbium & Associates thinks it isnt or it shouldnt be.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[drawingthesun]

It seems highly unlikely to me that he's been told to close down by the SEC or any LE.  Were that to have happened then closure would have been more of a case of pulling the plug out than the gradual winding down that has been announced.  This feels far more like being told to stop by his own lawyers than a cease-and-desist or seizure by some government agency - they don't give you a month to sort things out in, they want immediate cessation of activity.

This sounds spot on. If it was the SEC they wouldn't allow an illegal exchange to continue operating for another month.

Deprived I have a question if you would be kind enough to answer.

What process would have Burnside had to go through to make the exchange legal?

Because exchanges are able to run in the USA. So I am sure there must be a path to create a legal compliant exchange.

Do you have any idea?

[stereotype]

Let me explain what the most likely scenario is - and what the answers are then to your question and some other common ones...

If I were a bettin' man, I'd bet that Deprived has nailed this explanation correctly in almost every detail.

Agreed. Just wondering what the catalyst could have been. Labcoin, possibly? (rhetorical question).