Analysis and list of top big blocks shills (XT #REKT ignorers)

[Cconvert2G36]

yeo and in 2-5 years a 4tb-6tb will be under $100.. so scalability is not an issue

Scalability is not about storage only.

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

[Lauda]

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

So propagation delay is now considered a minor issue?

[Bitcoinpro]

The Gavinistas are disturbingly fixated on personal attacks (doxing, threats, etc) against Bitcoin's defenders.

Specifically and recently, I'm talking about dropt and rocks.

More generally, it's a shame they managed to force GMAX out of Core's committers.  I'm reminded of the (attribution needed) phrase 'if the system is solid, attack the people.'

There is a special level of pity reserved for those who swore to fork off from this terrible Sensor Ship forum run by HitlerThermos, yet cannot help but get bored in their rump venue ghost towns and come back just to flamebait and shitpost.   

hahahahaha

ghost towns are a huge theme these days

totally over run by shills, empty houses

empty commercial buildings and for

sale for rent signs, as they squash

and jam pack everyone into the corporatized

mega cities,

[Cconvert2G36]

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

So propagation delay is now considered a minor issue?

You'd have to ask him, I'm just the messenger. Doesn't really matter tho, there is consensus on the roadmap. 

[Fatman3001]

At least not when it comes to storage space.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W01HP4642

$124 for 4tb.

Bandwidth OTOH... But I got an offer from my isp of a 500MB/50MB line for $99 a month. Not exactly cheap, but for a drooling nerd it's a "worthwhile investment".

Your post is a fine example of faulty generalization and nonsense. You are trying to present that price point as available to everyone which is not even close in reality. Most people of the world do not have access to those prices and a single TB tends to cost ~100$ depending on where you live. With bandwidth it is much worse with the world average being 5.0 Mbps.

... we haven't even hit the 1mb limit yet. If you imagine that I live in the future then you might see how this is relevant. Except I don't. This is not available to everyone, but it is to many. Maybe not to Luke-Jr's hut in the middle of the Appalachian Jungle, but to many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds

South Korea 20.5MB
Sweden 17.5MB
United States 12.6MB
Israel  11.2MB
New Zealand 8.7MB
Thailand 8.2MB
United Emirates 6.8MB
Uruguay 5.9MB
South Africa 3.7MB

But these are averages. Which means that in low to medium income countries, especially those with large landmasses, you'll find large areas pulling down the averages.

I'm not sure how this exactly is relevant to the OP?

You're right. Ordnung Muss Sein. Especially in a thread dedicated to branding and hunting down misfits.

I guess I should be on the list as well. HA!!! How much more relevant can you get?

[franky1]

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

So propagation delay is now considered a minor issue?

sorry but propagation is not an issue.
if you can watch netflix then you got no worries about bandwidth

eg
2mb blocks = 12mb an hour
4mb blocks = 24mb an hour
8mb blocks= 48mb an hour

netflix SD = 1000mb an hour(20x-80x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )
netflix HD=3000mb an hour(60x-240x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )

and 33million people dont seem to be complaining about bandwidth issues

[Fatman3001]

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

So propagation delay is now considered a minor issue?

sorry but propagation is not an issue.
if you can watch netflix then you got no worries about bandwidth

eg
2mb blocks = 12mb an hour
4mb blocks = 24mb an hour
8mb blocks= 48mb an hour

netflix SD = 1000mb an hour(20x-80x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )
netflix HD=3000mb an hour(60x-240x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )

and 33million people dont seem to be complaining about bandwidth issues

I would think you'll send your received blocks to more than 1 other node.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

At least not when it comes to storage space.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W01HP4642

$124 for 4tb.

Bandwidth OTOH... But I got an offer from my isp of a 500MB/50MB line for $99 a month. Not exactly cheap, but for a drooling nerd it's a "worthwhile investment".

Your post is a fine example of faulty generalization and nonsense. You are trying to present that price point as available to everyone which is not even close in reality. Most people of the world do not have access to those prices and a single TB tends to cost ~100$ depending on where you live. With bandwidth it is much worse with the world average being 5.0 Mbps.

... we haven't even hit the 1mb limit yet. If you imagine that I live in the future then you might see how this is relevant. Except I don't. This is not available to everyone, but it is to many. Maybe not to Luke-Jr's hut in the middle of the Appalachian Jungle, but to many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds

South Korea 20.5MB
Sweden 17.5MB
United States 12.6MB
Israel  11.2MB
New Zealand 8.7MB
Thailand 8.2MB
United Emirates 6.8MB
Uruguay 5.9MB
South Africa 3.7MB

But these are averages. Which means that in low to medium income countries, especially those with large landmasses, you'll find large areas pulling down the averages.

How did I miss this thread? I could swear I was a big block shill. What more must I do?!?!

@Fatty Edited to include hyperlink to satirical shill thread.

[franky1]

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

So propagation delay is now considered a minor issue?

sorry but propagation is not an issue.
if you can watch netflix then you got no worries about bandwidth

eg
2mb blocks = 12mb an hour
4mb blocks = 24mb an hour
8mb blocks= 48mb an hour

netflix SD = 1000mb an hour(20x-80x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )
netflix HD=3000mb an hour(60x-240x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )

and 33million people dont seem to be complaining about bandwidth issues

I would think you'll send your received blocks to more than 1 other node.

well the maths is there..

[Fatman3001]

How did I miss this thread? I could swear I was a big block shill. What more must I do?!?!

I think they got confused by your Blockstream Appreciation thread.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Not only, but it's mainly the disk space...

So propagation delay is now considered a minor issue?

Ah, the propagation delay.... That is indeed a major issue. Thanks for bringing that up.

You'd think with it being so important and all that someone might have been working on it, but... ya know...  segwit, LN, rbf...

Oh, is that "Relay Network" I hear you saying?  External solution to a problem caused by internal smelly code?

"Lets send all the transactions to a node, and then send all the same transactions to the node again as a block - just to be sure."
 - "But that causes a huge propagation delay if bitcoin ever succeeds and transactions increase. Cant we just fix it?"
"Fix it? Are you mad!! That would take, like, a 100 lines of code. Its much easier to radically change the way bitcoin works via RBF, segwit and LN first. If they all work out in 2-3 years, we might look at your crazy reckless 100 line code change."

[European Central Bank]

I like big blocks and I cannot lie.

[jonald_fyookball]

At least not when it comes to storage space.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W01HP4642

$124 for 4tb.

Bandwidth OTOH... But I got an offer from my isp of a 500MB/50MB line for $99 a month. Not exactly cheap, but for a drooling nerd it's a "worthwhile investment".

Your post is a fine example of faulty generalization and nonsense. You are trying to present that price point as available to everyone which is not even close in reality. Most people of the world do not have access to those prices and a single TB tends to cost ~100$ depending on where you live. With bandwidth it is much worse with the world average being 5.0 Mbps.

... we haven't even hit the 1mb limit yet. If you imagine that I live in the future then you might see how this is relevant. Except I don't. This is not available to everyone, but it is to many. Maybe not to Luke-Jr's hut in the middle of the Appalachian Jungle, but to many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds

South Korea 20.5MB
Sweden 17.5MB
United States 12.6MB
Israel  11.2MB
New Zealand 8.7MB
Thailand 8.2MB
United Emirates 6.8MB
Uruguay 5.9MB
South Africa 3.7MB

But these are averages. Which means that in low to medium income countries, especially those with large landmasses, you'll find large areas pulling down the averages.

I'm not sure how this exactly is relevant to the OP?

You're right. Ordnung Muss Sein. Especially in a thread dedicated to branding and hunting down misfits.

I guess I should be on the list as well. HA!!! How much more relevant can you get?

"Centralization of mining due to slow propagation with bigger blocks" is mostly a strawman argument.

Even if the blocksize went up to 8MB with no increases in Internet speed,
you're talking about 8 seconds difference between an 8mbit connection and
a 16mbit connection.  Compare to the 600 seconds required to solve a block
and you get 8/600 = .0133~.    So that's a 1.3% advantage to the faster
miner.  Quite dubious to say that would be a crushing competitive advantage
given that there are other factors involved in mining costs such as electricity,
gear, and operations.

[johnyj]

Because a 100 btc transaction consumes exactly the same resource as a 0.01 btc transaction, it is a bad idea to put any transaction on the blockchain regardless of their value. It is socialism, not market based approach

I think eventually there will be a fee market, low value transactions will go off chain. But that is a good thing, because you don't always need the 100% trust-less model that is provided by the bitcoin blockchain

At what level do you need 100% trustless

[johnyj]

i like to think outside of the box. and it seems that many people argue, if your not a XT supporter you must be a blockstream supporter.

which brings people to start a 'race war' about which community people belong to.

but think outside of the box and ask yourself,
in 2011 when mining was done on GPU, why wasnt there "security risks" and people crying when the average block went from 100kb to 200kb, when the average persons hard drive was 250gb

why in 2013 when mining was done by 60ghash miners and the blocks were 500kb average and peoples hard drives were 500gb average, that there was no big arguments?

why in 2016 where a 2TB hard drive is cheap enough for regular people to buy, suddenly there is a problem for even an increase of the blocklimit to 2mb.

It is already a pain to verify the blockchain at current block size, it can take hours to catch up if my qt client is 2 weeks behind. You can imagine that in future no one would be able to download and install bitcoin through a normal way since it takes forever to verify those historical blocks

Most of the bitcoin data is generated in the latest 2-3 years, while in the beginning bitcoin core client was a super light application. If you don't put a limit on its growth, keep current trajectory, the grow will simply crash majority of the nodes in a couple of months. I think even a 2MB limit will be reached rather quick when we have another wave of rally at next reward halving, and still use blockchain to handle all types of transactions without prioritizing

[Lauda]

sorry but propagation is not an issue.
if you can watch netflix then you got no worries about bandwidth

eg
2mb blocks = 12mb an hour
4mb blocks = 24mb an hour
8mb blocks= 48mb an hour

netflix SD = 1000mb an hour(20x-80x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )
netflix HD=3000mb an hour(60x-240x more bandwidth requirement for netflix compared to bitcoin no matter what block size proposal goes forward )

and 33million people dont seem to be complaining about bandwidth issues

It is pretty obvious that you have no clue to what propagation delay is and why it matters for Bitcoin, else you would not be mentioning Netflix.

You'd have to ask him, I'm just the messenger. Doesn't really matter tho, there is consensus on the roadmap. 

I will. There is indeed consensus but there are still people trying to sabotage it.

"Centralization of mining due to slow propagation with bigger blocks" is mostly a strawman argument.

Even if the blocksize went up to 8MB with no increases in Internet speed,
you're talking about 8 seconds difference between an 8mbit connection and
a 16mbit connection.  Compare to the 600 seconds required to solve a block
and you get 8/600 = .0133~.    So that's a 1.3% advantage to the faster
miner.  Quite dubious to say that would be a crushing competitive advantage
given that there are other factors involved in mining costs such as electricity,
gear, and operations.

Watch the first Scaling workshop again.

[Fatman3001]

"Centralization of mining due to slow propagation with bigger blocks" is mostly a strawman argument.

Even if the blocksize went up to 8MB with no increases in Internet speed,
you're talking about 8 seconds difference between an 8mbit connection and
a 16mbit connection.  Compare to the 600 seconds required to solve a block
and you get 8/600 = .0133~.    So that's a 1.3% advantage to the faster
miner.  Quite dubious to say that would be a crushing competitive advantage
given that there are other factors involved in mining costs such as electricity,
gear, and operations.

Sry, I can't follow your numbers there with regards to block propagation. But mining centralization has already largely happened because of the economics of Bitcoin mining. If, however, someone wants to contribute with a basement space heater they can do so through the pool of their choosing with minimal network requirements to themselves.

Your last point is a good one. The chinese have cornered the market in large part due to artificially low electricity costs due to chinas centrally planned economy. If they lose out because they can't keep up with bandwidth and consistently gets stuck in the last 50th percentile when it comes to block propagation, then tough luck! If they can't compete then there is no reason for Bitcoin to keep them around. But there are ways around this problem, and the chinese miners know this, none of them are opposed to larger blocks.

[Fatman3001]

There is indeed consensus but there are still people trying to sabotage it.

...?

That's a pretty weird way of looking at it.

There are people who disagrees with the "consensus", which would lead one to believe that there isn't a consensus.

For key members of Core to come out and declare a consensus among the people who mostly agreed anyway, in order to silence the rest, sort of stinks, doesn't it?

At least if it's used the way you used it now.

[ATguy]

You'd have to ask him, I'm just the messenger. Doesn't really matter tho, there is consensus on the roadmap. 

I will. There is indeed consensus but there are still people trying to sabotage it.

Nope, no consensus at all, just majority of Bitcoin core developers which represents only small part in Bitcoin ecosystem. At least Bitcoin core developers are honest and telling clearly they cannot dictate the future of Bitcoin thus encouraging others for developing other full node clients working with (and defining) Bitcoin protocol, so no sabotaging at all, just finding full node client which gets widest popularity among Bitcoiners. There is not realistic other option than Bitcoin core today, but given the unpopular features like RBF, SegWit as scaling option, and full blocks in 2016/2017, Im pretty sure the competetion finally starts soon and we will be not in situation where one group of developers controls the future of the whole Bitcoin ecosystem anymore, especially when they are unwilling to hear substantional (if not majority) view.


About OP discussion, no wonder here is no analysis of top big blocks shills at all, beause they just worship small blocks without rational reasons behind, thus most lacking analytical skills at all.

[franky1]

seems some people are grabbing idea's from politics

its democracy because we dictate the plan, if you don't like it we will deem you saboteurs and terrorists. the community does not lead us, we lead them