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jibble
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March 28, 2016, 09:07:44 PM |
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Yes, I do understand all of this, but it's not really relevant to my main concern, which is about the way delegates claim their position. However, if the delegate pool was to be made substantially larger, wouldn't any centralisation claims be easier to fend off?
Here's an interesting little thing about predicting voters turnouts... at least, I find it interesting:
There is an (admittedly disputed) formulae for this:
PB + D > C,
P is the probability that an individual's vote will affect the outcome of an election,
B is the perceived benefit that would be received if that person's favored political party or candidate were elected,
D originally stood for democracy or civic duty, but today represents any social or personal gratification an individual gets from voting, and
C is the time, effort, and financial cost involved in voting.
For an average Lisk voter, we can already see that both P and B are essentially zero and I can't imagine D would be very high. C would likely be quite/very high due to the effort of reading about delegates and especially paying to vote.
Now look at it from a (selfish) large Lisk holders/group point of view:
P would be high, because a high Lisk holder or group can put a lot of Lisk into voting and quite possibly affect the outcome. B would be astronomical because he's hoping to get a delegate out of it. We'll leave D as before because we can afford to, and C would be possibly quite high due to cost, but not as high as B, because B is where the profit is.
Ah ok i see clearer now , I would have to agree to be honest , it was one of the things i was thinking about when i was reading and investing and looking at the economical incentives, a doubling of delegates would lower voting power and increase decentralization , althou i am not too certain on the negatives that could be made with such a jump in delegates, i mean financially , people are still earning a very tidy sum for running a delegate . But not sure of attack vectors or possible manipulations of the system were it to be expanded like such, there could be non lol, but could become worse off . Like possibly voting being worth even less to the smaller people would they be less inclined to actually vote. The percentage of power distribution against the loss of actual delegate voting would need to be figured out without reliable figures. I would be interested in this being talked about more , especially if the coin grows in value very quickly , would a increase of delegates not help the system better? surely , spreading the wealth instead of accumulation from the 101. is there any plan to perhaps experiment on test net or debate about it with developers. |
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sussex
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March 28, 2016, 09:09:12 PM |
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yes, people are already working on profit sharing delegates
Are they actually working on it or is it just promised? Because, if it's technically possible and payments can be enforced, I think I might STFU. It's not perfect, but it is a way forward. |
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jibble
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March 28, 2016, 09:12:46 PM |
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yes, people are already working on profit sharing delegates
Are they actually working on it or is it just promised? Because, if it's technically possible and payments can be enforced, I think I might STFU. It's not perfect, but it is a way forward. From what i can tell and have read and seen. yes , they are actively working on delegate pools that have profit sharing |
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Bank_sy
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March 28, 2016, 09:24:06 PM |
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Checked keys and works!
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sussex
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March 28, 2016, 09:25:36 PM |
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The same could be said to you fuckface. Do you just assume that they ARE NOT? do you have proof or are you just trying to seem smarter than thou to feed your narcissism? I can just as easily throw shit out there like you. So why don't I STFU.  Wow. Your self-promotion is falling apart today, isn't it? Did I touch a nerve? Do you feel your easy income being threatened? I'm going for delegate, I offer all proceeds to my voters in ratio to the lisk they spend voting for me minus running costs Public accounts Hosted at work on a static IP or some VPS, whatever I'm told to do. Using whatever Dapp (being developed) will allow me to pay out the voters. and I can get Max, Oliver or both an invite to a very prestigious event in London where they can give a speech to several hundred International politicians and business leaders. The event is towards the end of the year and is held in a seriously fucking prestigious and world renowned venue.  |
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sussex
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March 28, 2016, 09:31:22 PM |
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yes, people are already working on profit sharing delegates
Are they actually working on it or is it just promised? Because, if it's technically possible and payments can be enforced, I think I might STFU. It's not perfect, but it is a way forward. From what i can tell and have read and seen. yes , they are actively working on delegate pools that have profit sharing Do you mean delegates running voter pools or a pool operating as a delegate? Because a pool operating as a delegate seems rather pointless. |
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Mrmoney2
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March 28, 2016, 09:33:51 PM |
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The same could be said to you fuckface. Do you just assume that they ARE NOT? do you have proof or are you just trying to seem smarter than thou to feed your narcissism? I can just as easily throw shit out there like you. So why don't I STFU. Wow. Your self-promotion is falling apart today, isn't it? Did I touch a nerve? Do you feel your easy income being threatened? I'm going for delegate, I offer all proceeds to my voters in ratio to the lisk they spend voting for me minus running costs Public accounts Hosted at work on a static IP or some VPS, whatever I'm told to do. Using whatever Dapp (being developed) will allow me to pay out the voters. and I can get Max, Oliver or both an invite to a very prestigious event in London where they can give a speech to several hundred International politicians and business leaders. The event is towards the end of the year and is held in a seriously fucking prestigious and world renowned venue. Sure! Ill vote to ppl or pools that shares incomes with voters. Why should i contribuate for someone to Get rich? Please guys keep working on this and u will have my votes. I wont spend my Lisk to help greedy childs. Regards |
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jibble
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March 28, 2016, 09:35:29 PM |
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yes, people are already working on profit sharing delegates
Are they actually working on it or is it just promised? Because, if it's technically possible and payments can be enforced, I think I might STFU. It's not perfect, but it is a way forward. From what i can tell and have read and seen. yes , they are actively working on delegate pools that have profit sharing Do you mean delegates running voter pools or a pool operating as a delegate? Because a pool operating as a delegate seems rather pointless. best place for the information would be here : https://forum.lisk.io/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=7bdb517202443223016bd3d4a6d143fc this is people asking to become delegates and people sharing their projects and ideas . From my understanding its a delegate pool , so people who vote for the delegate are in the pool and share the profits generated by the delegate |
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ttookk
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March 28, 2016, 10:09:14 PM |
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Since i had a hard time finding it myself and I think it isn't really mentioned anywhere, here is the Link to the login-page where you can GENERATE YOUR KEYS:
https://ico.lisk.io/users/sign_in |
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sussex
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March 28, 2016, 10:19:13 PM |
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lol I already am but It looks like I touched a nerve on you. You mad bro? I was saying that that shit you were spouting is your opinion. You attacked me saying that I don't know shit and you don't expect some shit back? pathetic. Good for you, you can do all those things. Just like how you say that people can just talk shit about making profit sharing delegates, It can be said that you are also full of shit on all those things you say you can do until you fucking do them.
You're the one who's fucked up if you think everyone else is being greedy besides yourself. You're not fucking Robin Hood or Mother Theresa, we're all flawed. Usually the people who are guilty the most point out their own flaws in others.
Yeah yeah yeah, am I on your list yet? |
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fuze0000
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March 29, 2016, 12:02:37 AM |
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https://youtu.be/_90Y8mw_HVYThis is an interesting real life user experience of using Ethereum based Smart contracts as a services. I would also like to add how user friendly LISK will be. BTW Cannabanana I really appreciate your humor and your responses! They tend to bring a smile and a much needed laugh. https://youtu.be/_90Y8mw_HVY
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LiskCryptoFan
Member
 Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
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March 29, 2016, 12:08:44 AM |
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Validated all 5 of my Lisk exchange, super smooth process. I recommend everyone else do the same asap.
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AleScamHole
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Don't you looooooove how offensive my name sounds?
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March 29, 2016, 12:09:29 AM |
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https://youtu.be/_90Y8mw_HVYThis is an interesting real life user experience of using Ethereum based Smart contracts as a services. I would also like to add how user friendly LISK will be. BTW Cannabanana I really appreciate your humor and your responses! They tend to bring a smile and a much needed laugh. https://youtu.be/_90Y8mw_HVY ya that's why eth in my opinion is just hype sure u can get a company to make a smart contract (notice the daily decrypt wasent able to do it themselves) but USING IT is another story ETH IS A SCAM , just hype |
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hmachado
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March 29, 2016, 12:19:14 AM |
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https://youtu.be/_90Y8mw_HVYThis is an interesting real life user experience of using Ethereum based Smart contracts as a services. I would also like to add how user friendly LISK will be. BTW Cannabanana I really appreciate your humor and your responses! They tend to bring a smile and a much needed laugh. https://youtu.be/_90Y8mw_HVY So brutal! lol |
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copychicken
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March 29, 2016, 12:27:03 AM |
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how many times do we have to validate??
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Bigcabrito
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March 29, 2016, 12:32:25 AM |
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how many times do we have to validate??
Once per exchange.  |
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copychicken
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March 29, 2016, 12:36:31 AM |
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ok thanks a lot )) |
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MGM
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March 29, 2016, 12:52:12 AM |
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Please change your profile avatar to something that has Lisk Logo, so people know you're THE Lisk Community Manager. |
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MGM
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March 29, 2016, 01:08:56 AM |
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Hypothetically.. if I own 2 million lisk. And I create 33 separate accounts with nodes off 1 computer. Then vote for my nodes.. then I am going to secure all of them with the weight of my vote. I'm not a pessimist but I doubt even 60% of people in the ICO will vote.
If I am right and this can happen.. it almost definitely will happen because of greed. But it doesn't help secure the network. Please revise your plans on delegates and come up with a better formula. I said it before about having a calculation involved when it comes to voting.
That only assumes that the 2% of coins you're talking about is the biggest stack. If there are 10 people with stacks in the 2-5 million and they all do the same thing, it really negates all of them. Plus there are thousands of people with 10,000 or less coins which added all up are more weight than just one person with 2% of the coins. and if your answer is lazy people wont vote! My answer is how the fuck do you know? It's all guesses based off of narrow circumstances that need specific types of things to happen in order to be successful. Some people won't vote cos some investors honestly won't give a shit. They will have bought their lisk in ICO and will jus sit on it for years without a care about the network at all. Secondly. Ok so I said 2 million as an example. Let's say someone with 5 million does it. 33 nodes with a weight of 5 million each. Its gona take a hell of a lot of votes from people with 10k stacks to overtake them. I'm only bringing this up cos I want it fair for everyone. Not just the rich getting richer without caring about development of dapps! Did you pick those 2 million & 5 million Lisk figures randomly? Because that's exactly how much Lisk is going to those investors who invested 300 BTC & 1000 BTC at the ICO. How much will they be making everyday with 33 nodes each? |
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