.

[repentance]

Oh, good, another obscure pseudocorp in Onaboatistan. That'll help.

But at least the Marshall Islands aren't in ASIA, for which Tom seems extremely grateful.

[Bogart]

Has *anyone* received a refund since the 08-Jan "new Chinese year year" post?

I know CC refunds might not happen that fast, but BTC refunds should.  At least one.

[mining4fun11]

@ MichaelBliss

I can only speak to my understand of US law and I haven't fully researched what I'm about to speak of, further it is not meant to be legal advice.

My understanding is there are consumer protection laws that require a product purchased, on a website within the US, to be shipped within a maximum of 60 days. These consumer protection laws at the least have civil sanctions and at the most criminal penalties. So when a refund is issues the most you can lose is the difference in currency value conversion of 60 days from date of purchase. It can be argued, maybe unsuccessfully, if additional purchases were made that the date for which the clock begins starts at the date of the first purchase. So at a maximum the amount refunded must be calculated at 60 days from purchase, if not shipped within 60 days, and not longer. If any funds are transferred via an electronic method (Bitcion or bank wire transfers) that are not in accordance with the 60 days from purchase calculation it would constitute wire fraud. If the funds are transferred not in accordance with the 60 days from purchase calculation via a mail system (USPS, Fedex, UPS, DHL) using a monetary instrument it would constitute mail fraud.

It is also my understanding that if an electronic device is transferred via a mail system, that requires FCC regulation compliance and the device is not in compliance with regulations, to a US customer it would constitute mail fraud. As I have stated before I am unaware that Tom has any type of incorporation that would protect himself or his employees from civil and criminal penalties.

Is Tom going to pay for Dave's criminal defense attorney and how, with your preorder funds? Is Dave willing to go to jail because Tom directed Dave to engage in felonious activity? Are the new owners going to assume the financial liability for Dave's criminal defense? Will Dave sue Tom or his company for liability if a criminal prosecution occurs? Or will the new owners just buy the intellectual property from Tom?

Dave, you might want to seek a free consultation with a criminal defense attorney. It is better to be safe than sorry. Although the damage might have already been done but you can mitigate further damage by terminating your employment with Tom.

If you want to exact your pound of flesh, one might start by filling criminal activity reports with the district attorney's office in the county where Tom resides, the New York Attorney General's office, the FBI, the FCC, the Mail Inspector General's office and your local law enforcement agencies.

Ignorance of the law is not an accepted legal defense.

If you send him to jail then he won't be able to spend more time with his family, one of the reason this piece of shit stated he was bailing. 

[MichaelBliss]

With bitcoin going up generally, the USD crashing generally, why do you think it's a good idea to have converted BTC into USD when it was at 11?  You mean the outcome that occurred; i.e. btc going up so trading BTC for USD would have been a bad move, wasn't the likely one?  Tom doesn't believe in bitcoin?  Wtf?

Again: What would an ASIC vendor want with the boatloads of BTC they would be getting? They can't sell them without crashing the economy and you can't buy anything with them either. You can't feed your family on rig exhaust dried strawberries and honey glazed nuts alone. Or at least you shouldn't.

Why are you calling him "an ASIC vendor" ? He's at best "an ASIC pre-order vendor" and at worst a scammer. What the hell are all you people who "still believe" smoking?  It's more potent than anything we have in Vancouver obviously.  Is this all part of "bath salts" problem your having in the US?

bASIC is vaporware.  Whether or not the ASIANs finish the project and you end up with something in your hands, doesn't change the fact that Tom lied about the projects progress to his customers all along.  I likely could have dealt with delays etc and stood behind the project, *IF* there was transparency as promised.  All we got is a bunch of wishy washy delay tactics and syphilitic ramblings and you *dare* to call Tom an ASIC vendor?

Your not "customers sticking with Tom", your enabling his fraud to go on.  Your more like delusional victims of a cult, standing behind your crazy leader, no matter what.   Drink the koolaid, that's fine, but keep your thoughts on MY REFUND to yourself.  Your biased due to your puppy love for Tom, not to mention you have a financial stake in the scam.  Update: still zero btc refunded to me.  Will give it until tomorrow before I contact the authorities. 

Also greyhawk, your logic about BTC being useless to tom is flawed.  To answer your rhetorical question about it: he could hold on to it expecting it to go up in price, then sell as needed rather than dump it all (all I want is my btc back myself, so I can hold it, so why is that so unlikely?).   BTW: still ZERO BTC refunded.

[greyhawk]

You seem kinda melty.

Here, have a video of the bAsic ASIC hashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANdvNeLuuDY

[MichaelBliss]

You seem kinda melty.

Here, have a video of the bAsic ASIC hashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANdvNeLuuDY

Are you serious?  Here's a link to my empty wallet, waiting for refunds from bASIC and BFL (I asked BFL yesterday, got a response today urging me to reconsider but it looks like at least BFL will refund me).  

http://blockexplorer.com/search/1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW

Has anybody received a refund from bASIC?  

Again: that video is a joke right?  I ordered ASICs with my $4k+ , not this video.

[miter_myles]

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

[itsgoldbaby]

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

Why does this remind me of a scam that happened a little while ago?

EDIT: Link doesn't work? :/

[greyhawk]

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

Why does this remind me of a scam that happened a little while ago?

EDIT: Link doesn't work? :/

If you remove one cable from cablepair and add a T and an E and then vigorously shake the whole concoction, it spells pirate. 

[miter_myles]

Focusing on refunds today.  I just want to illustrate a few points for the folks that are waiting for refunds:

-we have a lot of refund requests.  I'm looking at working straight through 2 to 3 solid days to process them.  Please be patient.
-in order to refund orders we must move money out of savings.  This takes time as it is a money wire.  Please be patient so we can finish this process. 
-threats of chargebacks just slow everything down.  I now have to double check that a dispute has not been filed, prior to initiating the refund.  This should be an unnecessary added step, but now I have to do that too.
-a big batch of BTC refunds is being sent to Tom today.

Latest from Dave on a still locked down forum..

Boohoo on slowing things down regarding charge backs.. refunding should have been the number one priority the last couple days from TOM and DAVE and it clearly has not been..

[MichaelBliss]

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

Until I see it ~ 400btc of that 500BTC bet is actually my money that Tom is gambling with.   Got an email from Dave (who seems legit and like he's actually trying his best) that I'll have my BTC today.  Will update if/when that happens.

[Bogart]

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

Why does this remind me of a scam that happened a little while ago?

EDIT: Link doesn't work? :/

BoB staff have not yet approved the statement for betting, so only the submitter (cablepair) can view it, while logged in.

In the meantime:

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1116 - bASIC mining devices will not ship before April 2013
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1128 - bASIC will not ship ASIC products in 2013

[crazyates]

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1128 - bASIC will not ship ASIC products in 2013

I don't get the point of these ridiculous betsofbitcoin. I really have to tie up my Bitcoins for 11 months just to prove a point one way or the other? I'd rather bet with my wallet and order some damn ASICs, and in 11 months we'll see who's laughing.

[Bogart]

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

Edit: So y'all can watch along at home, my refund request address is: 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ  I'm expecting a refund in the amount of $2199.98.

Edit: I do see that Dave emailed me about 3 hours ago asking for clarification.  Replied just now.

[mining4fun11]

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

Im sorry man but you got SCAMMED.  Just read some of the other scammers threads.  The process is the same.  The positive side is that if this is a scam and you paid by credit card then Tom and his buddies could end up in jail.  Most of the scams on here have been for bitcoin so Tom might be the first bitcoiner to get locked up.   I would pursue this. 

[MrTeal]

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1128 - bASIC will not ship ASIC products in 2013

I don't get the point of these ridiculous betsofbitcoin. I really have to tie up my Bitcoins for 11 months just to prove a point one way or the other? I'd rather bet with my wallet and order some damn ASICs, and in 11 months we'll see who's laughing.

You think that's bad? Look at some of the ones that end in 3 or 5 years.

[Bogart]

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1128 - bASIC will not ship ASIC products in 2013

I don't get the point of these ridiculous betsofbitcoin. I really have to tie up my Bitcoins for 11 months just to prove a point one way or the other? I'd rather bet with my wallet and order some damn ASICs, and in 11 months we'll see who's laughing.

You think that's bad? Look at some of the ones that end in 3 or 5 years.

Mm hmm.  If you bet on such a statement, consider the risk that BoB may not be around by the time it ends.

[Syke]

It's a pity that Tom didn't learn from the experts in announcing delays. You don't go and announce 2 months delays and vague ownership changes, it scares everyone off. You announce, relax, don't worry, it'll be soon, more info coming, free tablet with purchase, check out these flashy lights, yadda yadda yadda. That way 4+ months delays are more easily swallowed.

[PuertoLibre]

You seem kinda melty.

Here, have a video of the bAsic ASIC hashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANdvNeLuuDY

Are you serious?  Here's a link to my empty wallet, waiting for refunds from bASIC and BFL (I asked BFL yesterday, got a response today urging me to reconsider but it looks like at least BFL will refund me).  

http://blockexplorer.com/search/1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW

Has anybody received a refund from bASIC?  

Again: that video is a joke right?  I ordered ASICs with my $4k+ , not this video.

Get your money back from BFL (before the rush) as they too are on the same path as bASIC.

They are going to announce another delay in Mid January so secure your $$$ or BTC while you still have time.

------------------------

By the way, you are the first customer to have mentioned them urging a customer to stay. Has this happened before to anyone else? I thought they always just confirmed the refund and that was it?

Sounds like the bASIC collapse has them on their toes themselves.....Especially with an announced delay in Mid January.

I predict that will be worth the premium pop-corn people eat during this fiasco.
I also predict the delay could not have come at a worse time than any other...they must know it too.

------------------------
Drama scenario:

BFL is siting on customer money with delayed ASIC chips. Now on their third or fourth delay.
BFL's competitor takes a tail spin and sells out...and can't refund orders fast enough.
BFL's competitor locks down their forum.
BFL begins to ask their own customers to reconsider refunding their orders in the wake of the panic of their competitor. Confidence is at an all time low.

Come mid-January:
BFL announces yet another delay. Promises starting the deliveries by the end of the month.
BFL customers assume they are pulling a bASIC scene on them.
BFL customers have the final straw and begin the next (and possibly final) wave of cancellations.

Avalon ships on time. (The turtle has now beat the hare to the finish line)

The BFL customer reps having nothing to say for themselves other than it will be out "soon".
They try to charm their customers by posting useless developments that in the end don't mean anything.
BFL customers ask for more than they paid, BFL refuses (already have multiple times).
Bad sentiments grow as their own customers see others getting their orders and start hashing like crazy.
The bad sentiments and anger grow as pictures of Avalon units are posted and the difficulty increases.
The post-wave cancellations come and BFL probably will do the same as bASIC.

The final straw that broke the camels back:

Avalon opens the second batch now accepting orders by the thousands. Taking in both bASIC and BFL customers from either company.

People either conform with the reality of the higher power usage or they stick it out for another  month (or more) without mining while waiting for bASIC and BFL.

[miter_myles]

^ bahahahahah

he has edited his drama scenarios numerous times thus far...


ding ding ding