Proof that God exists

[valta4065]

...

Entropy means heat/disorder/randomness, not complexity...

Exactly. Entropy means the breaking down of complexity in dispersal, diffusion, and equilibratory action happening on everything in the universe, even on heat energy.

Since entropy is the result of every action, at least to some small extent, nothing more complex can come from something less complex.

That is an ignorant assumption... just because the end result is less complex than right now, does not mean it cannot be more complex during the intermediary stages...

It's like saying that water will always equilibriate to room temperature, but it could never get hot or cold for even a moment... sure, it can... prove it cant


Let me break it down for you...

universe started less complex, became more complex, and ends less complex... its that middle part you keep neglecting

Yeah but he doesn't give a fuck, he doesn't even understand what entropy is. He just links it to complexity whereas it's only a matter of energy and order!

He seems to have a problem understanding words in general... Any word with multiple meaning trips him up... I don't understand how he makes it through life...

When a guy says, "form a line", does he grab a piece of paper and draw a line?

If a cop asks him to, "take it slow", does he slowly grab for the cop's gun?

He can't seriously be as stupid as he pretends...

First thing first: don't underestimate him!

And second thing: I don't know either, it's a bit strange to imagine how the fuck he could understand so little things...

[mrflibblehat]

...

Entropy means heat/disorder/randomness, not complexity...

Exactly. Entropy means the breaking down of complexity in dispersal, diffusion, and equilibratory action happening on everything in the universe, even on heat energy.

Since entropy is the result of every action, at least to some small extent, nothing more complex can come from something less complex.

That is an ignorant assumption... just because the end result is less complex than right now, does not mean it cannot be more complex during the intermediary stages...

It's like saying that water will always equilibriate to room temperature, but it could never get hot or cold for even a moment... sure, it can... prove it cant


Let me break it down for you...

universe started less complex, became more complex, and ends less complex... its that middle part you keep neglecting

Yeah but he doesn't give a fuck, he doesn't even understand what entropy is. He just links it to complexity whereas it's only a matter of energy and order!

He seems to have a problem understanding words in general... Any word with multiple meaning trips him up... I don't understand how he makes it through life...

When a guy says, "form a line", does he grab a piece of paper and draw a line?

If a cop asks him to, "take it slow", does he slowly grab for the cop's gun?

He can't seriously be as stupid as he pretends...

First thing first: don't underestimate him!

And second thing: I don't know either, it's a bit strange to imagine how the fuck he could understand so little things...

don't underestimate him!

As I was saying - funny and sad.

[BADecker]

...

Entropy means heat/disorder/randomness, not complexity...

Exactly. Entropy means the breaking down of complexity in dispersal, diffusion, and equilibratory action happening on everything in the universe, even on heat energy.

Since entropy is the result of every action, at least to some small extent, nothing more complex can come from something less complex.

That is an ignorant assumption... just because the end result is less complex than right now, does not mean it cannot be more complex during the intermediary stages...

It's like saying that water will always equilibriate to room temperature, but it could never get hot or cold for even a moment... sure, it can... prove it cant


Let me break it down for you...

universe started less complex, became more complex, and ends less complex... its that middle part you keep neglecting

Except that these things that you say are not seen anywhere in the universe.

All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.

While I don't accept Big Bang as truth, do you think for a minute that Big Bang would be less complex than the universe it created? Take that tiny, virtually no-volume point that was the Big Bang before it "exploded." Then, boom, and we have all this complexity. Are you so dense that that you would think that the Big Bang was was less complex, while it was holding all this universal complexity in one tiny point?

Wake up.

[BADecker]

The fact that I don't know everything about entropy doesn't have anything to do with it. Why not? Because nobody but nobody knows everything about entropy. The things that we DO know about entropy show that nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex than both.

BADecker, we had this discussion before and I explained in detail why entropy is not the same as complexity, and why what you just wrote is wrong.

Should we have that discussion again, or just link to the relevant thread?

You are so silly. For example, if I point out the sky to you, and then explain that the sky is blue, this doesn't mean that I am the sky, right? In a similar way entropy expresses basics about complexity. But that doesn't mean that entropy is complexity, right?

But go ahead. Knock yourself out (Sean Connery said that in "Medicine Man"... the Knock yourself out, part). Explain some more that entropy isn't complexity if you like.

 

Your statement: "nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex" is false.

Do you have an example of things as you say? After all, you can see cause and effect all over the place. Certainly there is complexity all around us. Everything wears out and disperses and dissipates as entropy predicts.

Takes two people to make a child - greater complexity making lesser complexity. People make cars - greater complexity making lesser complexity. What is your example regarding the reverse, lesser complexity making greater complexity?

How are you measuring the complexity of a child vis a vis the complexity of an adult? How about parents having octuplets -- surely eight babies in one birth are more complex than two adults?

The complexity of conception is greater the child. Why? Because no child comes about without it. Even if we can create a child in the lab and test tube without standard conception, no conception happens without the complexity of the things that cause it to happen.

Cause and effect stand. No cause to make conception happen, no child.

Conception is more complex than the child, because without its complexity, no child would happen.

This is a circular argument. You are in effect saying that the complexity of conception is greater than the complexity of a child because it would only happen if one was more complex than the other.

Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals. Which is more complex?
Wood burns to create smoke. Which is more complex?

That's what I tried to explain earlier, if you try to say anything logical or scientific, at least respect the first principle and:
DEFINE YOUR TERMS!!!

So wanna talk about complexity? Define it and link it to entropy!

Full entropic conditions would have all mass and energy dispersed evenly throughout all space and time. Is something like that complexity? Not at all.

Complexity is where pieces of matter and energy are bunched together and behave in special ways that would not exist if everything were dispersed evenly throughout all space and time. This is complexity, and it is the exact opposite of entropy which is/does the dispersing.

[BADecker]

Ignorance is bliss.

Except in the judgment where you will have to answer to God.   

[Pulsarmaster]

Pulsarcoin will be release soon

[BADecker]

...

Entropy means heat/disorder/randomness, not complexity...

Exactly. Entropy means the breaking down of complexity in dispersal, diffusion, and equilibratory action happening on everything in the universe, even on heat energy.

Since entropy is the result of every action, at least to some small extent, nothing more complex can come from something less complex.

That is an ignorant assumption... just because the end result is less complex than right now, does not mean it cannot be more complex during the intermediary stages...

It's like saying that water will always equilibriate to room temperature, but it could never get hot or cold for even a moment... sure, it can... prove it cant


Let me break it down for you...

universe started less complex, became more complex, and ends less complex... its that middle part you keep neglecting

Yeah but he doesn't give a fuck, he doesn't even understand what entropy is. He just links it to complexity whereas it's only a matter of energy and order!

He seems to have a problem understanding words in general... Any word with multiple meaning trips him up... I don't understand how he makes it through life...

When a guy says, "form a line", does he grab a piece of paper and draw a line?

If a cop asks him to, "take it slow", does he slowly grab for the cop's gun?

He can't seriously be as stupid as he pretends...

But you are voluntarily more ignorant than I could ever pretend.   

[af_newbie]

...nonsense...
All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.
...more nonsense...

...end of nonsense.

WTF are you talking about?  Sperm+egg are less complex than a grown human.

[BADecker]

Pulsarcoin will be release soon

And it will probably be the closest thing to understanding what pulsars are like, especially if you are a standard cosmological scientific theorist.

[yugo23]

...nonsense...
All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.
...more nonsense...

...end of nonsense.

WTF are you talking about?  Sperm+egg are less complex than a grown human.

Just posting to say I like the way you condense and summarize his speech xD

[BADecker]

...nonsense...
All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.
...more nonsense...

...end of nonsense.

WTF are you talking about?  Sperm+egg are less complex than a grown human.

But you don't get a sperm and egg from the same person. Sperm and egg are far greater complexity that the result it produces.

[mrflibblehat]

A punch in the face is less complex than a bruise. Just joking. Go on madam BAD.

[nickenburg]

I was going to a christian school as a child groups 1-8, learned a lot and was also lead to believe there had do me something of great power out there.
Maybe a god maybe something else, but later in highschool I learned all the different religions on our planet think god is the same god as all the other different gods from different religions.
And that really was the point where I was hell no, how can they be the same god but give all the people different rules.
 
And now I am a lot older and I think that religion is a bad thing for the world.

[BADecker]

...nonsense...
All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.
...more nonsense...

...end of nonsense.

WTF are you talking about?  Sperm+egg are less complex than a grown human.

But you don't get a sperm and egg from the same person. Sperm and egg are far greater complexity that the result it produces.

Don't you get it yet? A sperm together with an egg produce a person. The person can't produce another person. It is only when the person gets together with another person of the opposite sex that a new person can be produced. Two people/ sperm and egg. are more complex than one person who can't do what they do.

[organofcorti]

@BADecker, I didn't want you to miss this after the fold:

The fact that I don't know everything about entropy doesn't have anything to do with it. Why not? Because nobody but nobody knows everything about entropy. The things that we DO know about entropy show that nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex than both.

BADecker, we had this discussion before and I explained in detail why entropy is not the same as complexity, and why what you just wrote is wrong.

Should we have that discussion again, or just link to the relevant thread?

You are so silly. For example, if I point out the sky to you, and then explain that the sky is blue, this doesn't mean that I am the sky, right? In a similar way entropy expresses basics about complexity. But that doesn't mean that entropy is complexity, right?

But go ahead. Knock yourself out (Sean Connery said that in "Medicine Man"... the Knock yourself out, part). Explain some more that entropy isn't complexity if you like.

 

Your statement: "nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex" is false.

Do you have an example of things as you say? After all, you can see cause and effect all over the place. Certainly there is complexity all around us. Everything wears out and disperses and dissipates as entropy predicts.

Takes two people to make a child - greater complexity making lesser complexity. People make cars - greater complexity making lesser complexity. What is your example regarding the reverse, lesser complexity making greater complexity?

How are you measuring the complexity of a child vis a vis the complexity of an adult? How about parents having octuplets -- surely eight babies in one birth are more complex than two adults?

The complexity of conception is greater the child. Why? Because no child comes about without it. Even if we can create a child in the lab and test tube without standard conception, no conception happens without the complexity of the things that cause it to happen.

Cause and effect stand. No cause to make conception happen, no child.

Conception is more complex than the child, because without its complexity, no child would happen.

This is a circular argument. You are in effect saying that the complexity of conception is greater than the complexity of a child because it would only happen if the one was more complex than the other.

Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals. Which is more complex?
Wood burns to create smoke. Which is more complex?

[BADecker]

I was going to a christian school as a child groups 1-8, learned a lot and was also lead to believe there had do me something of great power out there.
Maybe a god maybe something else, but later in highschool I learned all the different religions on our planet think god is the same god as all the other different gods from different religions.
And that really was the point where I was hell no, how can they be the same god but give all the people different rules.
 
And now I am a lot older and I think that religion is a bad thing for the world.

There is One Great God. Everybody knows about Him in their hearts, because He is the Thing that made their identity to be similar to His in some ways.

Because people don't know much about that God, they envision Him in different ways. Finally, some of them start believing that the things that they envision are the true God. That's when they start to turn to false gods.

[BADecker]

@BADecker, I didn't want you to miss this after the fold:

The fact that I don't know everything about entropy doesn't have anything to do with it. Why not? Because nobody but nobody knows everything about entropy. The things that we DO know about entropy show that nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex than both.

BADecker, we had this discussion before and I explained in detail why entropy is not the same as complexity, and why what you just wrote is wrong.

Should we have that discussion again, or just link to the relevant thread?

You are so silly. For example, if I point out the sky to you, and then explain that the sky is blue, this doesn't mean that I am the sky, right? In a similar way entropy expresses basics about complexity. But that doesn't mean that entropy is complexity, right?

But go ahead. Knock yourself out (Sean Connery said that in "Medicine Man"... the Knock yourself out, part). Explain some more that entropy isn't complexity if you like.

 

Your statement: "nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex" is false.

Do you have an example of things as you say? After all, you can see cause and effect all over the place. Certainly there is complexity all around us. Everything wears out and disperses and dissipates as entropy predicts.

Takes two people to make a child - greater complexity making lesser complexity. People make cars - greater complexity making lesser complexity. What is your example regarding the reverse, lesser complexity making greater complexity?

How are you measuring the complexity of a child vis a vis the complexity of an adult? How about parents having octuplets -- surely eight babies in one birth are more complex than two adults?

The complexity of conception is greater the child. Why? Because no child comes about without it. Even if we can create a child in the lab and test tube without standard conception, no conception happens without the complexity of the things that cause it to happen.

Cause and effect stand. No cause to make conception happen, no child.

Conception is more complex than the child, because without its complexity, no child would happen.

This is a circular argument. You are in effect saying that the complexity of conception is greater than the complexity of a child because it would only happen if the one was more complex than the other.

Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals. Which is more complex?
Wood burns to create smoke. Which is more complex?

And I just showed you right here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg13965725#msg13965725 how you are mistaken. You and your political science when you can't prove real science wrong.

[af_newbie]

...nonsense...
All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.
...more nonsense...

...end of nonsense.

WTF are you talking about?  Sperm+egg are less complex than a grown human.

But you don't get a sperm and egg from the same person. Sperm and egg are far greater complexity that the result it produces.

Don't you get it yet? A sperm together with an egg produce a person. The person can't produce another person. It is only when the person gets together with another person of the opposite sex that a new person can be produced. Two people/ sperm and egg. are more complex than one person who can't do what they do.

Sperm and egg are not more complex than a grown human being.  Sperm is not a man.  Egg is not a woman.

By the same token, just conceived baby is more complex at 8 weeks than it is at 2 weeks.

[organofcorti]

@BADecker, I didn't want you to miss this after the fold:

The fact that I don't know everything about entropy doesn't have anything to do with it. Why not? Because nobody but nobody knows everything about entropy. The things that we DO know about entropy show that nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex than both.

BADecker, we had this discussion before and I explained in detail why entropy is not the same as complexity, and why what you just wrote is wrong.

Should we have that discussion again, or just link to the relevant thread?

You are so silly. For example, if I point out the sky to you, and then explain that the sky is blue, this doesn't mean that I am the sky, right? In a similar way entropy expresses basics about complexity. But that doesn't mean that entropy is complexity, right?

But go ahead. Knock yourself out (Sean Connery said that in "Medicine Man"... the Knock yourself out, part). Explain some more that entropy isn't complexity if you like.

 

Your statement: "nothing that is complex comes from something less complex without the help of something that is more complex" is false.

Do you have an example of things as you say? After all, you can see cause and effect all over the place. Certainly there is complexity all around us. Everything wears out and disperses and dissipates as entropy predicts.

Takes two people to make a child - greater complexity making lesser complexity. People make cars - greater complexity making lesser complexity. What is your example regarding the reverse, lesser complexity making greater complexity?

How are you measuring the complexity of a child vis a vis the complexity of an adult? How about parents having octuplets -- surely eight babies in one birth are more complex than two adults?

The complexity of conception is greater the child. Why? Because no child comes about without it. Even if we can create a child in the lab and test tube without standard conception, no conception happens without the complexity of the things that cause it to happen.

Cause and effect stand. No cause to make conception happen, no child.

Conception is more complex than the child, because without its complexity, no child would happen.

This is a circular argument. You are in effect saying that the complexity of conception is greater than the complexity of a child because it would only happen if the one was more complex than the other.

Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals. Which is more complex?
Wood burns to create smoke. Which is more complex?

And I just showed you right here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg13965725#msg13965725 how you are mistaken. You and your political science when you can't prove real science wrong.

That wasn't my post.

Again:


Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals. Which is more complex?
Wood burns to create smoke. Which is more complex?

[BADecker]

...nonsense...
All complexity that we see, was made by greater complexity, or else we haven't seen what made it at all. There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or observation to the opposite.
...more nonsense...

...end of nonsense.

WTF are you talking about?  Sperm+egg are less complex than a grown human.

But you don't get a sperm and egg from the same person. Sperm and egg are far greater complexity that the result it produces.

Don't you get it yet? A sperm together with an egg produce a person. The person can't produce another person. It is only when the person gets together with another person of the opposite sex that a new person can be produced. Two people/ sperm and egg. are more complex than one person who can't do what they do.

Sperm and egg are not more complex than a grown human being.  Sperm is not a man.  Egg is not a woman.

By the same token, just conceived baby is more complex at 8 weeks than it is at 2 weeks.

Grown man, or grown woman, or baby all alone cannot make new baby. Why not? Not complex enough. Must join to get complexity of sperm and egg to make new baby.