🌟🎲🌟 MoneyPot.com

[CrazyCraig]

we are a MP app and you are MP head dev

did we cheat our customers we this cookie issue? was eric cheated by us and we prevented him to win on our app?

Correct, I am MP's dev. You will have to investigate your own issue.

[3x1t]

@CrazyCraig

Please be so kind and explain to me what exactly happens when I hit the bet button. Especially what role the cookie plays in this process and how it is related to my bet outcome.

Thank you in advance !

[CrazyCraig]

@CrazyCraig

Please be so kind and explain to me what exactly happens when I hit the bet button. Especially what role the cookie plays in this process and how it is related to my bet outcome.

Thank you in advance !

Great question!

It depends on what API implementation the app owner has decided to implement. Implicit vs Confidential. You can learn more about the two here, but in a nut shell, implicit is when a browser interacts directly with an mp and confidential, when a serverside resource communicates directly with an MP app.

When the button is pressed the bet is passed through one of the described channels to MP's server and back to the client / service.

Regarding cookies, it depends on the app owners implementation. They could be using them for session storage, authentication etc. MP doesn't explicitly handle cookies. All cookies are managed by the app owner.

[3x1t]

@CrazyCraig

Please be so kind and explain to me what exactly happens when I hit the bet button. Especially what role the cookie plays in this process and how it is related to my bet outcome.

Thank you in advance !

Great question!

It depends on what API implementation the app owner has decided to implement. Implicit vs Confidential. You can learn more about the two here, but in a nut shell, implicit is when a browser interacts directly with an mp and confidential, when a serverside resource communicates directly with an MP app.

When the button is pressed the bet is passed through one of the described channels to MP's server and back to the client / service.

Regarding cookies, it depends on the app owners implementation. They could be using them for session storage, authentication etc. MP doesn't explicitly handle cookies. All cookies are managed by the app owner.

Thanks for the answer. So bit-exo for example uses confidential through their chatserver and jpr uses the implicit version correct ?

But let's get back to the cookie. I could imagine it would be possible to generate a hasherror with an old/false or whatever cookie.
But that does not influent the outcome in any way. With other words, it's not possible at all to make someone win or lose with a cookie. Cookies are just to give your browser access to your account and with that the access to interact with the mp api and do bets for example right ?

I'm not an expert with that, but thats how I understood it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[CrazyCraig]

@CrazyCraig

Please be so kind and explain to me what exactly happens when I hit the bet button. Especially what role the cookie plays in this process and how it is related to my bet outcome.

Thank you in advance !

Great question!

It depends on what API implementation the app owner has decided to implement. Implicit vs Confidential. You can learn more about the two here, but in a nut shell, implicit is when a browser interacts directly with an mp and confidential, when a serverside resource communicates directly with an MP app.

When the button is pressed the bet is passed through one of the described channels to MP's server and back to the client / service.

Regarding cookies, it depends on the app owners implementation. They could be using them for session storage, authentication etc. MP doesn't explicitly handle cookies. All cookies are managed by the app owner.

Thanks for the answer. So bit-exo for example uses confidential through their chatserver and jpr uses the implicit version correct ?

But let's get back to the cookie. I could imagine it would be possible to generate a hasherror with an old/false or whatever cookie.
But that does not influent the outcome in any way. With other words, it's not possible at all to make someone win or lose with a cookie. Cookies are just to give your browser access to your account and with that the access to interact with the mp api and do bets for example right ?

I'm not an expert with that, but thats how I understood it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, it depends on the app owners implementation. But if the app owner is storing hashes in a cookie, yes another session would interrupt this as previously described. Could one win or lose based on this. Yes. As the hash changes, so does the roll. Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

[ranlo]

Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

To expand on this a little, app owners are paid win or lose, so they have no benefit in forcing a player to lose, even if they were able to do so.

[hopenotlate]

Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

To expand on this a little, app owners are paid win or lose, so they have no benefit in forcing a player to lose, even if they were able to do so.

I would also add that a players who busts his whole roll doesn't wager anymore ( therefore  no profit for app owner)  meanwhile a winnig one will likely keep on betting or will likely come back to the site in the future.

So if an app owner would be able to cheat the system he should force his player to win instead imo.

[CrazyCraig]

Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

To expand on this a little, app owners are paid win or lose, so they have no benefit in forcing a player to lose, even if they were able to do so.

I would also add that a players who busts his whole roll doesn't wager anymore ( therefore  no profit for app owner)  meanwhile a winnig one will likely keep on betting or will likely come back to the site in the future.

So if an app owner would be able to cheat the system he should force his player to win instead imo.

In jpr's case he wants someone to win the jackpot as he takes a portion before it's awarded to the player. I believe he uses this for commission

[JackpotRacer]

Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

To expand on this a little, app owners are paid win or lose, so they have no benefit in forcing a player to lose, even if they were able to do so.

I would also add that a players who busts his whole roll doesn't wager anymore ( therefore  no profit for app owner)  meanwhile a winnig one will likely keep on betting or will likely come back to the site in the future.

So if an app owner would be able to cheat the system he should force his player to win instead imo.

In jpr's case he wants someone to win the jackpot as he takes a portion before it's awarded to the player. I believe he uses this for commission

LOL you believe this discussion is an old one and you only need to go back in our old thread and in MP thread. you should ask us because we dont hide anything and all is well documented in our threads and website FAQs or how about to inform yourself before talking "believe"

[3x1t]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

[JackpotRacer]

Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

To expand on this a little, app owners are paid win or lose, so they have no benefit in forcing a player to lose, even if they were able to do so.

short posting but spot on! please let me ask are we able to cheat our players as a client side MP app? would we be able to cheat if we would change to a server side MP app?


thx

[JackpotRacer]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

hi

I have the feeling you know what you are talking about and I find your questions very interesting and helpful to find out what is possible and not. really eager to see the result what could be done and who and how and if at all.

thx for that

[3x1t]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

hi

I have the feeling you know what you are talking about and I find your questions very interesting and helpful to find out what is possible and not. really eager to see the result what could be done and who and how and if at all.

thx for that

Just trying to explain it to myself with describing the steps in a simple way, so that they are understandable for everyone.
I can imagine pretty good that it's not easy for a dev to explain himself to someone who doesnt have the same knowledge.
Usually they talk about devthings with other devs so its hard to even realize that the one hes talking to, doesnt have it and that it would make sense to explain it in a simple way.

That is what I noticed long ago in school of traineeship. Some teachers have knowledge but they cant explain it in a simple way. That ends in pupils who hate the teacher and dont understand anything. But thats a bit off topic now I guess =P

[ericwrestle27]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

I just had a theory im no devolper but wanted my theory and idea fully explored and explained! never stated i was cheated but i thought something with cookies was screwing up lotto. and had a few i deas how one of them being that they where causing a error somehow. such as stated above but like i said im not expert and my certain situation seemed messed up.

[JackpotRacer]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

hi

I have the feeling you know what you are talking about and I find your questions very interesting and helpful to find out what is possible and not. really eager to see the result what could be done and who and how and if at all.

thx for that

Just trying to explain it to myself with describing the steps in a simple way, so that they are understandable for everyone.
I can imagine pretty good that it's not easy for a dev to explain himself to someone who doesnt have the same knowledge.
Usually they talk about devthings with other devs so its hard to even realize that the one hes talking to, doesnt have it and that it would make sense to explain it in a simple way.

That is what I noticed long ago in school of traineeship. Some teachers have knowledge but they cant explain it in a simple way. That ends in pupils who hate the teacher and dont understand anything. But thats a bit off topic now I guess =P

another very good answer and all makes perfect sense. I learned to ask and ask and ask again till I understand what I need to understand. but most of the time teachers or non teachers just dont have the patience or as you said they dont have the knowledge to explain it in a simple way. therefore I am askin many times for ELI5 and I am not shy to ask

lets see if we get an ELI5 answer to our problem. for us it is important to know if this cookie issue gives us the option to cheat? gives MP the option to cheat? gives a player the option to cheat or gives a scott hamper bot the option to cheat whomever

in short we want to eliminate any option of cheating if it exists through our app because we dont want to cheat and we dont want to be cheated

thx for your Q&A

[ranlo]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

hi

I have the feeling you know what you are talking about and I find your questions very interesting and helpful to find out what is possible and not. really eager to see the result what could be done and who and how and if at all.

thx for that

Just trying to explain it to myself with describing the steps in a simple way, so that they are understandable for everyone.
I can imagine pretty good that it's not easy for a dev to explain himself to someone who doesnt have the same knowledge.
Usually they talk about devthings with other devs so its hard to even realize that the one hes talking to, doesnt have it and that it would make sense to explain it in a simple way.

That is what I noticed long ago in school of traineeship. Some teachers have knowledge but they cant explain it in a simple way. That ends in pupils who hate the teacher and dont understand anything. But thats a bit off topic now I guess =P

another very good answer and all makes perfect sense. I learned to ask and ask and ask again till I understand what I need to understand. but most of the time teachers or non teachers just dont have the patience or as you said they dont have the knowledge to explain it in a simple way. therefore I am askin many times for ELI5 and I am not shy to ask

lets see if we get an ELI5 answer to our problem. for us it is important to know if this cookie issue gives us the option to cheat? gives MP the option to cheat? gives a player the option to cheat or gives a scott hamper bot the option to cheat whomever

in short we want to eliminate any option of cheating if it exists through our app because we dont want to cheat and we dont want to be cheated

thx for your Q&A

The answer is "no," "no," and "no."

[Bit-Exo.com]

But the hash they get from mp is just the salted serverseed and without the help of mp, appowner has no clue about its real value. So he does not know if it would make the player win or lose, which makes that option useless for cheating no ?
And if the hash doesnt fit to the one used in the bet which goes trough, then the bet wont be verified I guess ?

I'm not sure if the apps actually even check if the hash fits to the seed used in the bet tho :S

So if theres a cookie stored in browser with a hash and the cookie gets for whatever reason changed. Does mp check the cookie when the user sends the betdata to the server ?

I'd guess they do, so with a malicious cookie the bet wouldnd go trough = hasherror ?

hi

I have the feeling you know what you are talking about and I find your questions very interesting and helpful to find out what is possible and not. really eager to see the result what could be done and who and how and if at all.

thx for that

Just trying to explain it to myself with describing the steps in a simple way, so that they are understandable for everyone.
I can imagine pretty good that it's not easy for a dev to explain himself to someone who doesnt have the same knowledge.
Usually they talk about devthings with other devs so its hard to even realize that the one hes talking to, doesnt have it and that it would make sense to explain it in a simple way.

That is what I noticed long ago in school of traineeship. Some teachers have knowledge but they cant explain it in a simple way. That ends in pupils who hate the teacher and dont understand anything. But thats a bit off topic now I guess =P

another very good answer and all makes perfect sense. I learned to ask and ask and ask again till I understand what I need to understand. but most of the time teachers or non teachers just dont have the patience or as you said they dont have the knowledge to explain it in a simple way. therefore I am askin many times for ELI5 and I am not shy to ask

lets see if we get an ELI5 answer to our problem. for us it is important to know if this cookie issue gives us the option to cheat? gives MP the option to cheat? gives a player the option to cheat or gives a scott hamper bot the option to cheat whomever

in short we want to eliminate any option of cheating if it exists through our app because we dont want to cheat and we dont want to be cheated

thx for your Q&A

Appowners can only cheat by tipping users balance to another account and show a fake loss. This however would be easy to spot by the player, moneypot, and with high amounts i doubt the owner will be able to cashout much of the stolen funds.

For moneypot there are multiple known ways to cheat. But the cookie issue does not have anything to to with that.

Players can't cheat Moneypot, only appowners with some promo's

[AltcoinRambo]

Im not going to comment on the Eric situation. Again, I came to your defense and said that you were doing anything preventing users from hitting a jackpot. In fact, as I previously said, I found in your scripts that you take 20% from the jackpot winner which gives you 0 incentive to prohibit someone from hitting the jackpot, especially since you aren't even liable for it. MoneyPot is.

Regarding help, myself and dexon are always here. We may not be as hands on as RHavar was, but we are here for your assistance. Right now we are 100% focused on future endeavors, something that everyone has put a lot of presser on MP for.

Yourself and I have frequent conversations and I most always tell you how to address any issue you may have. You are not a developer and you may not understand my recommendations, so you need to hire someone who does. API V2 is right around the corner and you will need a developer to migrate your application, so it may be a good idea to start looking for one.

Here is a screenshot of our conversation on slack. I told you how to fix it.

as you are quite new to MP Slack please let me tell you that it is very disappointing to see that the head dev of MP is posting screenshots of the Slack room conversation and not of the general room but from the Private = Direct Messages. I am not sure if MP would be happy if every member of MP slack Channel will post screenshots of conversations between MP owners and dev and app owners in whatever forum

I remember when there was a leakage of infos about discussions out of the general Slack room. MP owners immediately opened another room and invited trusted app owners in there. and it is still there with much less users than in general channel.

but to be frank and everyone in Slack know that I dont like private conversations on skype or by PM especially if it is stuff that everyone should be interested in. I like open conversations like now here in forum. so I have no problem at all that you are posting screenshots of Slack DMs or even from general channel or any channel there. but the rule tells not to do this!!!!!!!!!!

and what does your ss prove? lets see how your help looked like for me

you are saying: "most likely what is happening is your users are placing bets before they get a response from the first bet"
maybe and it could be possible but my answer and my experience is that it also happens when I open the lottery and did not even one bet that means there was no first bet yet

and spamming bets? maybe and it could be possible but again it happens when user tries to do his first bet

and this was your great help?  I will not step down to your level and post our full Slack DM conversations. I respect the MP Slack channel rules but you and everyone are free to do so

" API V2 is right around the corner"
to tell you the truth v2 is already more than 6 month around the corner

and you will need a developer to migrate your application, so it may be a good idea to start looking for one.
yes we need a coder and it is not easy to find a good and trusted one and to be frank we don trust in first place so it is even more difficult.

and we need to hurry because of v2 is around the corner? No cause there is a lot of time imo and in case we dont find a coder till then guess what we do? will we commit suicide? no
we have to eat and MP is not feeding us. trust me on that

we have a few options - for example we can close it > we can auction/sell it > we can give it away for free (because it is ours)

I still dont understand what we did to let our users lose? was it the cookie bot from Scott Hamper which produced the hash error and prevented users to win? serious questions cause I dont understand it

Reread that slack conversation. I specifically said that your developer needs to put a check on the submit button and disable it. I posted that private slack conversation as you have yet to acknowledge that I offered assistance to you.

As you were quick to point out, yes I am quite new to MP, but thats going on just about 6 months now. I was not affiliated / involved with the previous development plans and have been implementing my own rendition of the API. I have been forthcoming with the plans and a procurement timeline.

You should hire a developer to investigate the cookie issue. I cannot speak for the rest of the MP team, but I personally will  not be offering my assistance to you anymore as it does no good.

Again, I still do not understand why you chose to attack me / mp when we came to defend you.

what cookie issue? did we cheat with the cookie issue and prevented users to win?

Like I said, I didn't make that acquisition. You will have to hire a developer to investigate your codebase and figure it out with Eric.

we are a MP app and you are MP head dev

did we cheat our customers we this cookie issue? was eric cheated by us and we prevented him to win on our app?

JPR, throughout this entire thread, you've just proven yourself to be a first-rate ass. You attack people who stood up for you and tried to help you. I hope Moneypot bans your app because frankly I think the entire MP-ecosystem is better off without people like you. I don't think you're a cheat but you're really making it sound like you have something to hide ...

[BTCevo]

Does JPR or any app owner know the outcome before hand. No.

To expand on this a little, app owners are paid win or lose, so they have no benefit in forcing a player to lose, even if they were able to do so.

I would also add that a players who busts his whole roll doesn't wager anymore ( therefore  no profit for app owner)  meanwhile a winnig one will likely keep on betting or will likely come back to the site in the future.

So if an app owner would be able to cheat the system he should force his player to win instead imo.

In jpr's case he wants someone to win the jackpot as he takes a portion before it's awarded to the player. I believe he uses this for commission

This is what I know, Jackpotracer never take a part or any commision in this rain. Because the portion of rain is always 10% from the jackpot so if someone won 1 btc the rain is 0.1 split for everyone . More over sometimes he pay more to the rain so everyone will get it. And after each win, there is always an event. They only make some promotion so they have more people play on their site

[shulio]

JPR, throughout this entire thread, you've just proven yourself to be a first-rate ass. You attack people who stood up for you and tried to help you. I hope Moneypot bans your app because frankly I think the entire MP-ecosystem is better off without people like you. I don't think you're a cheat but you're really making it sound like you have something to hide ...

Finally someone said this thing, arrogant attitude will not help him in getting anywhere. This is actually a simple issue, JPR asking for assistance and moneypot gave the advice however JPR doesnt take advice on how to do it but wants Moneypot to actually help him fix it and since he doesnt get it, he rampaged it out