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Author Topic: [ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer  (Read 448712 times)
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Redawn
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May 23, 2017, 08:05:30 AM
 #6241


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.

Join the Elastic revolution!  Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer
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May 23, 2017, 08:06:30 AM
 #6242


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.

Don't forget coralreefer who is currently working on one of the most important parts ... the miner / supernode verifier.
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May 23, 2017, 08:07:52 AM
 #6243


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.
and Coralreefer. All three MUST be compensated. I have my 5% XEL as my small appreciation ready !

My " I want that Old Toyota Camry very bad" BTC Fund :1DQU4oqmZRcKSzg7MjPLMuHrMwnbDdjQRM
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May 23, 2017, 08:10:39 AM
 #6244


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.

Don't forget coralreefer who is currently working on one of the most important parts ... the miner / supernode verifier.

Of course, I didn't want to ignore his contribution at all, I meant to all developers in general. Each one and his valuable contribution.  
[edited] Have not noticed that this wasn't answer to my message
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May 23, 2017, 08:13:16 AM
 #6245

All our devs starting with SR Satoshi EK should and would have at least 1 million XEL in the next month. That's the least, if only 3% of total coins donated.

My " I want that Old Toyota Camry very bad" BTC Fund :1DQU4oqmZRcKSzg7MjPLMuHrMwnbDdjQRM
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May 23, 2017, 08:49:45 AM
Last edit: May 23, 2017, 09:06:49 AM by yosir
 #6246

I have a suggestion because this project actually, for my opinion premature but can't do nothing about it, entered "financial" stage...

When Lite wallet will come out and XEL will actually has some real life value, 10% of each donor account XEL will be taken to:

5% will be shared by 3 main developers (let's call them "CORE" or whatever) as there are who actually gave this project some kind of life and this will be small token of "community" appreciation .

CORE with community will find and vote on PR and strategy guys ( maybe more positions) because it will be needed for sure in the future ( CORE will have 30% of voting power on this subject, XEL holders 70% )

This 5 guys (or 7 or 9), unless someone will choose not to of course, will have 40% on any future vote based on majority of inner core votes (60% still will be community's) . They are also will be in charge of additional 5% (out of 10% donated) that will be reserved for immediate/future expanses as hiring more developers, PR project etc.

I saw many people, that the only thing preventing them from donating to project is lack of wallet so I think all will be glad donating to project and help it's "heroes" (Sorry, although I have great respect to every person that working on this project, I think that person need to do something else to be a "hero", no offending Smiley )

So we can make a "democratic" vote about this.

I believe this will actually help project much more than many nice words.  
I am very interested to hear fail points of this suggestion or different numbers.

[edit] @coralreefer, @unvoid , @Evil-Knievel : I know that this suggestion puts you in kind of conflict of interests, but I will be glad if you will refer at least to part of it that you find appropriate.
  
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May 23, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
 #6247


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.

Don't forget coralreefer who is currently working on one of the most important parts ... the miner / supernode verifier.

You are totally right! EK, Unvoid and Coralreefer! the engine of this project. I think this project is becoming something great. We (as a community) respect you guys!

Join the Elastic revolution!  Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer
ELASTIC WEBSITE | ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD | ELASTIC SLACK | ELASTIC FORUM
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May 23, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
 #6248


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.

Don't forget coralreefer who is currently working on one of the most important parts ... the miner / supernode verifier.

You are totally right! EK, Unvoid and Coralreefer! the engine of this project. I think this project is becoming something great. We (as a community) respect you guys!
Even some members like ImI who's freely donated several BTC ( logo, development,....) must be recognized and appreciated.
Members like ImI didn't just use " nice" words, he took real action and these are people that truly supported our devs so far.

My " I want that Old Toyota Camry very bad" BTC Fund :1DQU4oqmZRcKSzg7MjPLMuHrMwnbDdjQRM
Join the Elastic revolution! Elastic Network: The Decentralized Supercomputer 
ELASTIC WEBSITE|ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD|JOIN THE SLACK
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May 23, 2017, 09:15:44 AM
 #6249


* As EK is the developer, only HE can say, when we have Litewallet according to HIS schedule and his free time. It can be soon, very soon or never. Only he can say that.

I do not know @yosir of anything, but totally agree with his message.

We just have a vote in progress, EK is not obliged to NOTHING.

I hope that EK and other dev as coralrefeer continue with us, but it will be their decision, not ours.

I also do not understand that it speaks of FUD, because we do not have mainnet, we do not have wallet, if we have an immense work done free by some dev, but there is nothing in the market.

FUD?

When we have a wallet, we can talk about FUD

Again: EK and Unvoid are a heros, and we must support him. It can be in bitcoin, but it can be also in XEL (when litewallet is online). EK and Unvoid are both the engine of this project. Maybe there are a lot more, I hope that they can show more to the public.

Don't forget coralreefer who is currently working on one of the most important parts ... the miner / supernode verifier.

You are totally right! EK, Unvoid and Coralreefer! the engine of this project. I think this project is becoming something great. We (as a community) respect you guys!
Even some members like ImI who's freely donated several BTC ( logo, development,....) must be recognized and appreciated.
Members like ImI didn't just use " nice" words, he took real action and these are people that truly supported our devs so far.
Donations are donations, I donated also and don't expect to have something in return. Recognition and appreciation can have many forms.
[edit] Took my words back, I guess you made honest mistake and answered here by mistake.
"I just love the way how you chose not to answer to my message although your answer clearly refer to it. All this ego stuff is simply "not smart"."
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May 23, 2017, 09:29:34 AM
 #6250

I have a suggestion because this project actually, for my opinion premature but can't do nothing about it, entered "financial" stage...

When Lite wallet will come out and XEL will actually has some real life value, 10% of each donor account XEL will be taken to:

5% will be shared by 3 main developers (let's call them "CORE" or whatever) as there are who actually gave this project some kind of life and this will be small token of "community" appreciation .

CORE with community will find and vote on PR and strategy guys ( maybe more positions) because it will be needed for sure in the future ( CORE will have 30% of voting power on this subject, XEL holders 70% )

This 5 guys (or 7 or 9), unless someone will choose not to of course, will have 40% on any future vote based on majority of inner core votes (60% still will be community's) . They are also will be in charge of additional 5% (out of 10% donated) that will be reserved for immediate/future expanses as hiring more developers, PR project etc.

I saw many people, that the only thing preventing them from donating to project is lack of wallet so I think all will be glad donating to project and help it's "heroes" (Sorry, although I have great respect to every person that working on this project, I think that person need to do something else to be a "hero", no offending Smiley )

So we can make a "democratic" vote about this.

I believe this will actually help project much more than many nice words.  
I am very interested to hear fail points of this suggestion or different numbers.

[edit] @coralreefer, @unvoid , @Evil-Knievel : I know that this suggestion puts you in kind of conflict of interests, but I will be glad if you will refer at least to part of it that you find appropriate.
  

this has been discussed and dismissed several times. Go read back in this thread a few pages, you'll find the same suggestion over and over.

A TL;DR of why it has been dismissed every time:

Everyone is free to donate a part of their share to a donation fund, be it 5%, 10% or whatever. Forcing users to "donate" a fixed percentage by a "democratic" vote would be unethical and legally highly questionable, since you'd take something from users which is rightfully theirs.

Just because a majority (which in case of elasticracy is more of an oligarchy anyway, not a democracy) said so, doesn't make it ok. This is why this is one of those instances, in which voting is not an option.

Apart from all that, there is no central foundation in place and thus, no place to hold the donated XEL. Where would you put it? Who should be responsible for holding the private keys and their distribution?
Don't even dare to mention EK, he has enough on his shoulders already.

Speaking of foundation:

You realize, that everyone is free to found a foundation for Elastic, right? Everyone could go ahead and say "I'll do a crowdfunding to fund an Elastic foundation". With all this talk of Elastic needing a foundation, someone just might go ahead and do it. (Don't look at me. I have zero experience in that regard.)
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May 23, 2017, 10:05:41 AM
 #6251

I think we can and should have a foundation with multisig wallet/s for compensation and funding of future and current development, pr and such.
I do not think that a certain % of coins should be taken from each holder by force. Rather i believe it should be a voluntary donation given by holders who wish to do so from their honest wishes and personal accord. Taxes are better left for governments and other oppressors.
If there is a possibility to give people the option to voluntarily pledge now to donate a certain amount of xel (amount chosen by them) prior to wallet launch it could be perhaps the best option, in addition to the ability to donate after launch.

Lately I  see too many personal conflicts between members become public. Please leave these pointless endless chitchat to the private domain and help keep this thread clean for the more important fruitful discussions.
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May 23, 2017, 10:14:28 AM
 #6252

I have a suggestion because this project actually, for my opinion premature but can't do nothing about it, entered "financial" stage...

When Lite wallet will come out and XEL will actually has some real life value, 10% of each donor account XEL will be taken to:

5% will be shared by 3 main developers (let's call them "CORE" or whatever) as there are who actually gave this project some kind of life and this will be small token of "community" appreciation .

CORE with community will find and vote on PR and strategy guys ( maybe more positions) because it will be needed for sure in the future ( CORE will have 30% of voting power on this subject, XEL holders 70% )

This 5 guys (or 7 or 9), unless someone will choose not to of course, will have 40% on any future vote based on majority of inner core votes (60% still will be community's) . They are also will be in charge of additional 5% (out of 10% donated) that will be reserved for immediate/future expanses as hiring more developers, PR project etc.

I saw many people, that the only thing preventing them from donating to project is lack of wallet so I think all will be glad donating to project and help it's "heroes" (Sorry, although I have great respect to every person that working on this project, I think that person need to do something else to be a "hero", no offending Smiley )

So we can make a "democratic" vote about this.

I believe this will actually help project much more than many nice words.  
I am very interested to hear fail points of this suggestion or different numbers.

[edit] @coralreefer, @unvoid , @Evil-Knievel : I know that this suggestion puts you in kind of conflict of interests, but I will be glad if you will refer at least to part of it that you find appropriate.
  

this has been discussed and dismissed several times. Go read back in this thread a few pages, you'll find the same suggestion over and over.

A TL;DR of why it has been dismissed every time:

Everyone is free to donate a part of their share to a donation fund, be it 5%, 10% or whatever. Forcing users to "donate" a fixed percentage by a "democratic" vote would be unethical and legally highly questionable, since you'd take something from users which is rightfully theirs.

Just because a majority (which in case of elasticracy is more of an oligarchy anyway, not a democracy) said so, doesn't make it ok. This is why this is one of those instances, in which voting is not an option.

Apart from all that, there is no central foundation in place and thus, no place to hold the donated XEL. Where would you put it? Who should be responsible for holding the private keys and their distribution?
Don't even dare to mention EK, he has enough on his shoulders already.

Speaking of foundation:

You realize, that everyone is free to found a foundation for Elastic, right? Everyone could go ahead and say "I'll do a crowdfunding to fund an Elastic foundation". With all this talk of Elastic needing a foundation, someone just might go ahead and do it. (Don't look at me. I have zero experience in that regard.)

Thank you for your answer Smiley

I would not raise this unless there was voting about Lite client and this is why:

Once you start to make "community" decisions about such subjects that has big impact on project as Lite wallet voting , ethically you lost your " moral high ground" as you already forced part of donors to do something they don't agree to but it will have serious impact on them also therefore any vote now is relevant from this point of view.
Legally, there is no problem whatsoever, because Lenisstar make it very clear that all funds are donations and that donors, for better or worst, don't have any legal rights. Tomorrow someone can take all XEL, and legally, there is no problem with it at all.

This is my personal problem, but from my experience with voluntary donations... it's "not working so good", If it was working there was already army of developers helping our overloaded developers.

"Just because a majority (which in case of elasticracy is more of an oligarchy anyway, not a democracy) said so, doesn't make it ok" - can't agree with you more, it's even not oligarchy, but "active" oligarchy... But still, same point, once voting about crucial issues started which have immidiate impact on others, you can't say this is OK and this is not just because it sounds different.

"Don't even dare to mention EK, he has enough on his shoulders already." Also more than agree with idea, less with tone but I think EK and others are big boys and can choose whatever they want. I, you or somebody else can't force them of course but the choice has to be presented.

 "You realize, that everyone is free to found a foundation for Elastic, right" - and again more than agree with you! but in order to prevent future problems like it already was were someone "and his friend" founded an Elastic foundation and demanded all code/keys etc. Smiley it will be better that there will be some regulation body, before (and there are already enough)  Elastic will "explode" and many people with agenda will try to hijack this project in it's "baby" phase.

You see, basically we agree almost on everything

P.S.  don't look at me also Cheesy
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May 23, 2017, 10:25:15 AM
 #6253

I think we can and should have a foundation with multisig wallet/s for compensation and funding of future and current development, pr and such.
I do not think that a certain % of coins should be taken from each holder by force. Rather i believe it should be a voluntary donation given by holders who wish to do so from their honest wishes and personal accord. Taxes are better left for governments and other oppressors.
If there is a possibility to give people the option to voluntarily pledge now to donate a certain amount of xel (amount chosen by them) prior to wallet launch it could be perhaps the best option, in addition to the ability to donate after launch.

Lately I  see too many personal conflicts between members become public. Please leave these pointless endless chitchat to the private domain and help keep this thread clean for the more important fruitful discussions.

As donations were one of the main points for Lite wallet I think this is almost everyone's wish unless of course... Smiley

I am bit cynical as you understand, and from my experience in different projects the donation method not working so good, of course this can be one a kind project with many great people... maybe... I don't want to count on this. "Taxes" is from something you have, here you donated and from the start gave up on all so every XEL you will have is nice surprise . And after all. it's not like there is someone here, that don't want this project to strive and to easy the burden on our developers, no? There are no people who only want to make money and other people to pay for them Smiley So this is pretty ethical that everybody will donate relative sum to what they will hold and it can be unfair only to people that "invested" more than money, but I guess they donated their effort for the greater good.

[edit] wording
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May 23, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
 #6254

Can I please get instructions on the voting process.

I know I need to sign a BTC message. But what is the content of the message? How do I mark it as a yes/no vote, and which is the target address?
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May 23, 2017, 10:46:23 AM
 #6255

Can I please get instructions on the voting process.

I know I need to sign a BTC message. But what is the content of the message? How do I mark it as a yes/no vote, and which is the target address?

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May 23, 2017, 10:56:39 AM
 #6256

I see now the Yes / No text on http://elasticracy.elasticexplorer.org/ is actualy clickable! That was not obvious.
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May 23, 2017, 03:06:55 PM
 #6257

we can put on a vote for "mandatory" donation of some % of XEL on mainnet launch to go to the devs/foundation.
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May 23, 2017, 03:14:14 PM
 #6258

we can put on a vote for "mandatory" donation of some % of XEL on mainnet launch to go to the devs/foundation.

seriously, how often does that topic be discussed here? you cannot vote to take away what belongs to someone else. that would equal theft/breach of contract.

so far this project is not lacking any funds! it's lacking qualified devs that are able to bring additional value to the project. we will have to look at other projects and eventually will find someone qualified that is interesting into joining Elastic. Since Coralreefer is in need of someone qualified in networking-stuff it would be optimal to find someone strong in that field.
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May 23, 2017, 03:58:31 PM
Last edit: May 23, 2017, 08:59:27 PM by Improved
 #6259

you cannot vote to take away what belongs to someone else. that would equal theft/breach of contract.

I posted this earlier.

We don't know how much XEL so-called "Lannister" owns. It could be more than 50% easily, even 80-90%.
Just import address 3Q2aKEGFTKDw3hghsBifXp39CZVMtZukxn and behold many cash-outs he did before crowdfunding ended. Sapienti sat.

We can't vote any kind of forced confiscation!
Big guys with millions of XEL can send bitcoin or XEL to developers in order to make his investition work and grow.
Let's suppose we transfer 10% of XEL into Foundation. In certain time this money will be spent. What next? Another round of forced donation/confiscation?
This shit will make the whole project a SCAM.
Our devs have to implement DASH-like budgeting system, for further support of Foundation and development.

---- Evil Russian Hacker ----
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May 23, 2017, 04:33:51 PM
 #6260

we can put on a vote for "mandatory" donation of some % of XEL on mainnet launch to go to the devs/foundation.

seriously, how often does that topic be discussed here? you cannot vote to take away what belongs to someone else. that would equal theft/breach of contract.

so far this project is not lacking any funds! it's lacking qualified devs that are able to bring additional value to the project. we will have to look at other projects and eventually will find someone qualified that is interesting into joining Elastic. Since Coralreefer is in need of someone qualified in networking-stuff it would be optimal to find someone strong in that field.

Let me try to answer this please.

You were totally right till Lite wallet voting, which changed everything.

First of all, till now, nobody has nothing, If tomorrow our great volunteer developers will decide to quit because they got tired, have no help etc.. you will have same nothing.

As I explained before, from legal point and also from how this was presented originally by Lennistar, there is no contract between sides, but simple, no binding donations which give no rights no the donors. This is what it is. So till you will have some amount in your wallet - you actually own nothing, there is no "breach".

Now to the more relevant part. As I see it, once some members of "community" decided by voting of majority on VERY BIG step, decide onmajor project issue and forced their decision on other members , the voting that previous was unacceptable became yet another voting, as the one before, in which owners of many XEL take decision and force it on the owners of few XEL. As you see, actually both decisions of making Lite wallet and take 10% of nothing are morally equal.

And in one point we disagree. I think that there is great work pressure on VOLUNTEER devs, and they voiced it on many occasions, while community was busy in choosing logo and Lite wallet voting. I assume here that if there are funds, they should be spent at this point on additional devs because for a long period already they ask for help if there is no funds problem I don't understand why we don't hire somebody months ago.

Last but not lease, as I have not understood the pressure to vote on Lite wallet so I don't understand the pressure NOT to vote on this donation issue. In worth case scenario, it will be YES/NO. This is kind funny, this selective voting attitude that I can assume what are the reasons but still interesting to hear other people.
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