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Author Topic: A4 Dominator - Pre-Order Group Buy - 280mh, roughly 1000w, $1800 + shipping  (Read 122589 times)
Longsnowsm (OP)
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August 09, 2016, 02:56:41 AM
 #281

Anyone planning on a teardown/rebuild of their A4 when they get here?
Typical stuff, like swapping the grease, upgrading the fans etc???

I will wait to see what the temps and fans are like before I plan to tear one down.  If heat is an issue then I will certainly plan on greasing and looking at the fans.  Gonna play by ear I guess.  I would love to know more about the fans, sound levels, temps... I am getting a little antsy...  Grin
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August 09, 2016, 05:43:08 AM
Last edit: August 09, 2016, 06:02:34 AM by Searing
 #282



A 325mh used Titan does 1250 watts vs a 280mh at 1000 watts.

Maybe 1 out of 20 used Titans could still do 350mh now as a prudent speed due to age
A 400mh has better effencency then that

Thus it is so close in electric vs hash imho as to be oranges to oranges and at the point a Titan can no longer be run the same could be said about an A4. They are so close when both get to that point on difficulty you'd be selling either in your stock or more likely both.


As you imply above,  due to age these Titans are failing.  Today a Titan may be close to an A4 for efficiency, but even with add-on heat sinks, X-brackets and GenTarkin upgrades, these rigs are slowing down.  As with any capital investment of computer technology, Titans have a lifecycle and  are coming to their end of life.  Days, weeks, months, even years, depending on multiple factors but they are declining.   Refreshing Titans with A4s just makes sense if you're in this for the long term while you have the hashrate.  

Now, if we could just see an A4 in the wild that would be huge!.  We still don't have the promised Youtube video of the final product, final warranty, release date, RMA process or any evidence that the A4 is close to release other than a web page posting, some emails and a video of a test chip.  Fortunately Innosilicon is an established reputable player so we remain hopeful they can overcome their design/manufacturing issues and bring the A4 to market soon.


You could be right I have 2 rigs that are at the 22 month rank and going strong yet...I managed via a corp default sale to get one NEW Nov 2014 300mh 4 cube Titan (split with a buddy) for $1750 usd with my share of shipping of $75 bucks..so $1825 Total. I also managed by just dumb luck ...(we asked about the knc bankruptcy law firm if they had any RMA stuff they would sell before it hit the dumpster on a hope/prayer...they led us to the 1st closed bid auction we got 24 at 1900 each including shipping (my share was 6)

So anyway with 7 new titans and the other 2 going strong....we should be fine.

Still off topic but I will be quick the key here is WITH the mods (esp the 3000 rpm fan and heatsinks and cleaning and repaste) my 22 month Titans GAINED 35mh total. Also
they are running cooler now with the maxumark x  bracket mods heatsinks repaste and 3000 rpm to the extent of 10c to 15c less per die...THUS at 84F in my basement the
old Titans now are running at the DOWN 10c to 15c in temp per die..they are running lower temps then all of this last winter at 60F ...by about 8c in an 84F basement

yeah ....some may die ...due to age as you say...and perhaps your point is important....but more and more people are using the gen tarkin firmware and the above mods
so we will see...in my case....I'm probably good with the old stuff for another 2 years from these results ..and of course the new stuff will be mod'd as such immediately

it is about 60 bucks  a cube if you say it costs $3 each for the repaste tossed in


As to the A4's I kinda doubt they will shoot out the numbers of the Titans...I think KNC said they made 5k of Titans.....in reality I think it was no more then 3.5k and
they made those numbers as a batch for the dies when LTC was about 10 bucks. So I suspect MAYBE the most A4's we might see would be 1.5k and that imho would
be a huge dump for the price LTC is now.

So again for Titans the 'modifications are coming" Maxumark just made an order for another 500 sets of X brackets at 10 bucks each and has pm's probably eating up 300 so far....it is
JUST like the A2's or Alcheminer 256 miners whatever it takes to keep them as far away from 'space heater' and/or doorstops as long in the future as possible Smiley

But as to myself and those who want to ask us.....we have a hook on this .....and should be hanging around our 'cousins' on the A4 batch just fine imho Smiley

But again the vast majority of Titan users maybe have gotten out....a lot of folk got their Titans used...as a result they do keep up on such things.....but then again
i could be wrong.

HOPEFULLY the A4's will have OPEN SOURCE stuff on github for their firmware..thus folk on here should chuck in 50 bucks each and 'gift' gen tarkin an A4 to port  his 3rd party
firmware software development NOW...his stuff is that good..if he made a version for the A4's it would kill..the stuff throttles down each die up down due to heat or off.it kills cube/die on fan death/ it finds the most eff elec use per die saving me probably 10-15% in electric....also I can over clock the Titan to 325mh for all and if too hot or does not
like it...it will throttle it back to the standard 300mh....the stuff is great....a version for the A4 would kill ..just trying to be fair here (i still may get an A4 .) On summer
heat/hot days they throttle down the dies in the day and back up to max at night..the stuff is SOOOO slick.

anyway with the A2's and others out of scrypt and likely only the A4's and Titans left in the scrypt playpen at this time ...we should all do just fine imho  at least for the next 1/2 year imho Smiley


Anyone planning on a teardown/rebuild of their A4 when they get here?
Typical stuff, like swapping the grease, upgrading the fans etc???

depending on how these A4's are setup I would say that FANS are huge....my upgrade from the crummy 1500 speed knc cheap fans to the 3000 rpm fans was huge..noise also was not an issue maybe 20% louder for 2x the speed.

.knc had a large kludge heatsink using FOAM (rubber) between the H shapped legs of stuff to the dies all 8 at once to a slap of 6x4" metal ugh.....was dumb as heck...replacing the X brackets by maxumark and just plain individual
copper heatsinks for the 8 individual dies...with that 3000 rpm fan was the kicker...not sure how A4's are setup but a few pics to titan owners may save you a lot of grief on a cheap/quick improvement.

On the Titans you kinda have to do a repaste to get a all this and put the X brackets on...probably it would be easier to mod the fans and add heatsinks on an A4 unit w/o such issues.

But anyway something to consider out of the gate imho Smiley






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August 10, 2016, 03:33:30 AM
 #283



A 325mh used Titan does 1250 watts vs a 280mh at 1000 watts.

Maybe 1 out of 20 used Titans could still do 350mh now as a prudent speed due to age
A 400mh has better effencency then that

Thus it is so close in electric vs hash imho as to be oranges to oranges and at the point a Titan can no longer be run the same could be said about an A4. They are so close when both get to that point on difficulty you'd be selling either in your stock or more likely both.


As you imply above,  due to age these Titans are failing.  Today a Titan may be close to an A4 for efficiency, but even with add-on heat sinks, X-brackets and GenTarkin upgrades, these rigs are slowing down.  As with any capital investment of computer technology, Titans have a lifecycle and  are coming to their end of life.  Days, weeks, months, even years, depending on multiple factors but they are declining.   Refreshing Titans with A4s just makes sense if you're in this for the long term while you have the hashrate. 

Now, if we could just see an A4 in the wild that would be huge!.  We still don't have the promised Youtube video of the final product, final warranty, release date, RMA process or any evidence that the A4 is close to release other than a web page posting, some emails and a video of a test chip.  Fortunately Innosilicon is an established reputable player so we remain hopeful they can overcome their design/manufacturing issues and bring the A4 to market soon.

In the ASIC arena reputation is only as good as your next product. Many good companies have gone under as well as bad ones. I would not purchase anything based on reputation, especially an ASIC miner. We need to see proof of a miner hashing away.  What is a bit scary is that I read a post that said they only have a cell phone number to answer calls.
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August 10, 2016, 06:46:24 PM
 #284

In the ASIC arena reputation is only as good as your next product. Many good companies have gone under as well as bad ones. I would not purchase anything based on reputation, especially an ASIC miner. We need to see proof of a miner hashing away.  What is a bit scary is that I read a post that said they only have a cell phone number to answer calls.

It's way, way past time for Innosilicon to provide a video of the A4 unit happily hashing away at 280MH - that should be the easy part for them. They must know confidence is slipping and why they wouldn't do the simplest and most obvious thing is a mystery.

They produced a test chip video, they've published the final specification, there is no good reason that they can't show ANY A4 in stock, prototype or whatever.
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August 10, 2016, 07:00:11 PM
 #285

In the ASIC arena reputation is only as good as your next product. Many good companies have gone under as well as bad ones. I would not purchase anything based on reputation, especially an ASIC miner. We need to see proof of a miner hashing away.  What is a bit scary is that I read a post that said they only have a cell phone number to answer calls.

It's way, way past time for Innosilicon to provide a video of the A4 unit happily hashing away at 280MH - that should be the easy part for them. They must know confidence is slipping and why they wouldn't do the simplest and most obvious thing is a mystery.

They produced a test chip video, they've published the final specification, there is no good reason that they can't show ANY A4 in stock, prototype or whatever.


I haven't asked for any followup yet with Inno lately.  I am going to wait a little while before I start pinging them for updates.  I will give them a week or two yet before I start asking for more info.  They said Aug/Sep so they still have time.
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August 10, 2016, 07:18:41 PM
 #286

Aug/Sep is manufacturer speak for "Your lucky if you see anything before Sep 30..."
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August 10, 2016, 07:25:05 PM
 #287

I haven't asked for any followup yet with Inno lately.  I am going to wait a little while before I start pinging them for updates.  I will give them a week or two yet before I start asking for more info.  They said Aug/Sep so they still have time.

The video is technically not "more info", but rather overdue and promised information.  They said Aug/Sep for delivery of the units themselves but are way overdue for delivery of the A4 Dominator video.
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August 10, 2016, 07:38:40 PM
 #288

I haven't asked for any followup yet with Inno lately.  I am going to wait a little while before I start pinging them for updates.  I will give them a week or two yet before I start asking for more info.  They said Aug/Sep so they still have time.

The video is technically not "more info", but rather overdue and promised information.  They said Aug/Sep for delivery of the units themselves but are way overdue for delivery of the A4 Dominator video.

I completely agree that the video is long overdue and was promised.  Agreed, the Aug/Sept is manufacturer talk for your lucky to see something by Sept 30th. 

So I will wait until the last week of August before I start getting more persistent for info from them, but please feel free to reach out to them and see what they say.  Maybe I am being "too patient"?
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August 10, 2016, 07:46:41 PM
 #289

I don't think it hurts to put out periodic requests for updates around the last week of Aug, but I wouldn't want to bug them too much.
Given their apparently thin business model, the secretary answering the emails might also be the lead assembler...
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August 10, 2016, 07:52:42 PM
 #290

I don't think it hurts to put out periodic requests for updates around the last week of Aug, but I wouldn't want to bug them too much.
Given their apparently thin business model, the secretary answering the emails might also be the lead assembler...

Wearing 6 hats, operating heavy equipment and electron microscopes while booking meetings... I can see it now! ROFL
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August 10, 2016, 07:53:23 PM
 #291

I don't think it hurts to put out periodic requests for updates around the last week of Aug, but I wouldn't want to bug them too much.
Given their apparently thin business model, the secretary answering the emails might also be the lead assembler...

Wearing 6 hats, operating heavy equipment and electron microscopes while booking meetings... I can see it now! ROFL

Im all for it if it helps keep costs down.
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August 10, 2016, 08:31:35 PM
 #292


As to the A4's I kinda doubt they will shoot out the numbers of the Titans...I think KNC said they made 5k of Titans.....in reality I think it was no more then 3.5k and
they made those numbers as a batch for the dies when LTC was about 10 bucks. So I suspect MAYBE the most A4's we might see would be 1.5k and that imho would
be a huge dump for the price LTC is now.

You think thay only made 3500 titans? If you say the average titan hashes at 300mhs now, 300 x 3500 is just over 1000GHs. The network is currently at about 1600GHs. Where is the other 600Ghs coming from? Are there that many A2's still running? Anything else should be unprofitable Id think. If the average titan runs at 400mhs then that brings us to 1400GHs which could be right but I dont think most titans run at those speeds - I could be wrong tho.

5000 titans @ 300mhs is 1500GHs which also seems to closely fit.

I guess it depends on what older ASICs are still running. Last I did the math, gridseed GBlack's were no longer profitable and I think they were the third most efficient miner (A2 being 2nd and Titan 1st).

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August 10, 2016, 08:35:31 PM
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As to the A4's I kinda doubt they will shoot out the numbers of the Titans...I think KNC said they made 5k of Titans.....in reality I think it was no more then 3.5k and
they made those numbers as a batch for the dies when LTC was about 10 bucks. So I suspect MAYBE the most A4's we might see would be 1.5k and that imho would
be a huge dump for the price LTC is now.

You think thay only made 3500 titans? If you say the average titan hashes at 300mhs now, 300 x 3500 is just over 1000GHs. The network is currently at about 1600GHs. Where is the other 600Ghs coming from? Are there that many A2's still running? Anything else should be unprofitable Id think. If the average titan runs at 400mhs then that brings us to 1400GHs which could be right but I dont think most titans run at those speeds - I could be wrong tho.

5000 titans @ 300mhs is 1500GHs which also seems to closely fit.

I guess it depends on what older ASICs are still running. Last I did the math, gridseed GBlack's were no longer profitable and I think they were the third most efficient miner (A2 being 2nd and Titan 1st).

The other factor is how cheap is the energy cost. If electricity costs you next to nothing then even the old stuff is still profitable.  But that is interesting what you pointed out regarding the numbers of possible rigs out there. 
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August 10, 2016, 08:56:10 PM
 #294


As to the A4's I kinda doubt they will shoot out the numbers of the Titans...I think KNC said they made 5k of Titans.....in reality I think it was no more then 3.5k and
they made those numbers as a batch for the dies when LTC was about 10 bucks. So I suspect MAYBE the most A4's we might see would be 1.5k and that imho would
be a huge dump for the price LTC is now.

You think thay only made 3500 titans? If you say the average titan hashes at 300mhs now, 300 x 3500 is just over 1000GHs. The network is currently at about 1600GHs. Where is the other 600Ghs coming from? Are there that many A2's still running? Anything else should be unprofitable Id think. If the average titan runs at 400mhs then that brings us to 1400GHs which could be right but I dont think most titans run at those speeds - I could be wrong tho.

5000 titans @ 300mhs is 1500GHs which also seems to closely fit.

I guess it depends on what older ASICs are still running. Last I did the math, gridseed GBlack's were no longer profitable and I think they were the third most efficient miner (A2 being 2nd and Titan 1st).

The other factor is how cheap is the energy cost. If electricity costs you next to nothing then even the old stuff is still profitable.  But that is interesting what you pointed out regarding the numbers of possible rigs out there. 

Also true. I just ran the numbers on a GBlack, if I remember right mine would hash at 23MHs and about 420 watts at the wall. This is showing as profitable at $0.08/KW which is not what I expected to see. It doesnt make much but it is in the green. Maybe they are still hashing away and I just didnt realize it.

At $0.05/KW a GBlack will bring in about $10 a month in profit.

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August 10, 2016, 09:06:00 PM
 #295


As to the A4's I kinda doubt they will shoot out the numbers of the Titans...I think KNC said they made 5k of Titans.....in reality I think it was no more then 3.5k and
they made those numbers as a batch for the dies when LTC was about 10 bucks. So I suspect MAYBE the most A4's we might see would be 1.5k and that imho would
be a huge dump for the price LTC is now.

You think thay only made 3500 titans? If you say the average titan hashes at 300mhs now, 300 x 3500 is just over 1000GHs. The network is currently at about 1600GHs. Where is the other 600Ghs coming from? Are there that many A2's still running? Anything else should be unprofitable Id think. If the average titan runs at 400mhs then that brings us to 1400GHs which could be right but I dont think most titans run at those speeds - I could be wrong tho.

5000 titans @ 300mhs is 1500GHs which also seems to closely fit.

I guess it depends on what older ASICs are still running. Last I did the math, gridseed GBlack's were no longer profitable and I think they were the third most efficient miner (A2 being 2nd and Titan 1st).

 Innosilicon claims that the MAJORITY of Scrypt hashing power comes from their A2 units.
 I have no reason to doubt that claim, given how COMMON A2 units are and how ROCK SOLID RELIABLE the A2 Terminator units have proven to be.

 TItans also have the well known issue that they commonly had cores or even entire dies DIE - even if KNC built a total of 5000 complete Titan miners, I doubt that the equivilent of 3500 full miners of them are still hashing today factoring in the DEAD CORE/DIE issue.


 The Gridseed GC3355 based gear was way down the list on efficiency (specifically including the GBlack blades) - the very few SFARDS SF100 units, the Titan, tossup between the A2 varients and the Alcheminer, some or all of the Zeus varients, the Silverfish, among others were ALL more efficient, though in some cases the relative efficiency was close.
 With that said, *IF YOUR ELECTRIC COST IN IN THE 3c/KWH range* the GC3355-based gear CAN still be profitable - BARELY - at current Litecoin difficulty/price.

 Your GBlack numbers sound reasonable to a hair low on efficiency - I was seeing 2.7 out of each side of the 80-blades at somewhere around 45 watts (some variation but tended to be small).


 If you used bitcoinwisdom to calculate profitability, DO keep in mind that they never updated the block reward for litecoin OR for scrypt, you have to enter in the correct number manually.


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August 11, 2016, 03:43:17 AM
 #296

So I will wait until the last week of August before I start getting more persistent for info from them, but please feel free to reach out to them and see what they say.  Maybe I am being "too patient"?

I've been in touch with a Chinese reseller of Innosilicon and they claim they will have stock at the end of the month.  They're not pressuring me for a pre-order, but are asking a USD$200 premium ($2000/unit) plus $150 to ship to the west coast of the US so hope springs eternal!
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August 11, 2016, 07:01:15 AM
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As to the A4's I kinda doubt they will shoot out the numbers of the Titans...I think KNC said they made 5k of Titans.....in reality I think it was no more then 3.5k and
they made those numbers as a batch for the dies when LTC was about 10 bucks. So I suspect MAYBE the most A4's we might see would be 1.5k and that imho would
be a huge dump for the price LTC is now.

You think thay only made 3500 titans? If you say the average titan hashes at 300mhs now, 300 x 3500 is just over 1000GHs. The network is currently at about 1600GHs. Where is the other 600Ghs coming from? Are there that many A2's still running? Anything else should be unprofitable Id think. If the average titan runs at 400mhs then that brings us to 1400GHs which could be right but I dont think most titans run at those speeds - I could be wrong tho.

5000 titans @ 300mhs is 1500GHs which also seems to closely fit.

I guess it depends on what older ASICs are still running. Last I did the math, gridseed GBlack's were no longer profitable and I think they were the third most efficient miner (A2 being 2nd and Titan 1st).

you could be right thou I think a lot of A2's are still being run in china and alcheminer 256 with their 3rd party firmware seems successful  but just the other day someone with 3c kwh
in texas says he was still running A2's at a profit

but China has a lot of data hall scrypt I've been told NON KNC or so the myth goes

but hey you could be right I just know KNC was trying to sell 5k of units..but cancelled last and 3rd batch...so why my hedge

main thing for me is with the improved (think V2 rocket vs NASA now) gen trakin firmware to monitor and the other mods i have done and such ..the Titans I have
are likely to have a lot less stress/temp in the next 2 years then the last 2 years....so looking good with all the 3rd party support..so assuming scrypt hangs together
in some manner (mainly LTC) we should be ok no matter if it is a Titan or an A4 (assuming they come out sometime before Oct ouch)

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August 11, 2016, 11:29:22 AM
 #298

Update from Chloe:

I asked if shipping could be paid in BTC.

Response:
We prefer wire payment. Your delivery will be in September according to current pre-order status. We are now making sample miners for a test.
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August 12, 2016, 12:59:58 AM
 #299

Do the math.

 at 1200 Mhz "full turbo" clock in the original software, I've got A2 units turning about 110 MH eating about 1250 watts at the wall.

 I'm not at "under 3c/KWH", closer to 4 where I'm at - but hopefully I'll be able to do a LOCAL move into one of the under-3c/KWH adjacent counties sometime in the next year or so - it's MUCH easier to find a place when you're LOCAL after all.


 As long as Litecoin pricing stays in the same ballpark $4 price it's been most of the last year+ (I'm ignoring the short spike to $5), A2s will remain profitable even if the hashrate doubles as long as you have low-enough cost electric.

 In my case, my A2 units are already pretty much paid off so ROI isn't going to be an issue - even if I DON'T recycle all of the PS in them.


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August 12, 2016, 06:11:55 AM
 #300

Do the math.
 at 1200 Mhz "full turbo" clock in the original software, I've got A2 units turning about 110 MH eating about 1250 watts at the wall.
 I'm not at "under 3c/KWH", closer to 4 where I'm at - but hopefully I'll be able to do a LOCAL move into one of the under-3c/KWH adjacent counties sometime in the next year or so - it's MUCH easier to find a place when you're LOCAL after all.

Here's the math. About $2.67/day  for 110MH A2.
http://www.vnbitcoin.org/detailcalculationltc.php?name=LiteCoin_Mining_Rig&startdate=2016-08-11&costperunit=3995&wattperhour=1250&gigahazarate=110000&daytoincrease=3&testlopfirst=3&diffincrement=0.7064&bitcoinperdollar=3.7&electriccostinput=.04&begindifflevel=52865


A dyingTitan, with dies turned off, running at 110MH would consume about 400w at the wall would return $3.49/day
http://www.vnbitcoin.org/detailcalculationltc.php?name=LiteCoin_Mining_Rig&startdate=2016-08-11&costperunit=3995&wattperhour=400&gigahazarate=110000&daytoincrease=3&testlopfirst=3&diffincrement=0.7064&bitcoinperdollar=3.7&electriccostinput=.04&begindifflevel=52865
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