Steemit how can this thing be workable long term?

[bacchist]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

[smooth]

Steemit has literally nothing to do with peertracks afaik. Different team, different code, different target market.

They used the Graphene block chain. I figured maybe the back dealings are closely affiliated. Maybe not.

The pumping shares of musicians had Dan's fingerprints on it. He always designs these weird Rube Goldberg machines that do strange economic incentives.

Peertracks is, or at least was (not sure any more) a direct project of the Bitshares community, so he was probably involved at some level before he left Bitshares. The basic design probably originates in that era. I don't think he is involved at all now, but I could be wrong and he is involved in some minimal way.

[iamnotback]

Steemit has literally nothing to do with peertracks afaik. Different team, different code, different target market.

They used the Graphene block chain. I figured maybe the back dealings are closely affiliated. Maybe not.

The pumping shares of musicians had Dan's fingerprints on it. He always designs these weird Rube Goldberg machines that do strange economic incentives.

Peertracks is, or at least was (not sure any more) a direct project of the Bitshares community, so he was probably involved at some level before he left Bitshares. The basic design probably originates in that era. I don't think he is involved at all now, but I could be wrong and he is involved in some minimal way.

Dan left Bitshares  

Who is running Bitshares?

Sorry I guess I have been sleeping under a rock.

[smooth]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

The money supply roughly doubles every year, then every three years it is reduced to 1/10. This keeps the coin count numbers approximately within the same range longer term, but doesn't affect much else.

[magicalacademy]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

[smooth]

Steemit has literally nothing to do with peertracks afaik. Different team, different code, different target market.

They used the Graphene block chain. I figured maybe the back dealings are closely affiliated. Maybe not.

The pumping shares of musicians had Dan's fingerprints on it. He always designs these weird Rube Goldberg machines that do strange economic incentives.

Peertracks is, or at least was (not sure any more) a direct project of the Bitshares community, so he was probably involved at some level before he left Bitshares. The basic design probably originates in that era. I don't think he is involved at all now, but I could be wrong and he is involved in some minimal way.

Dan left Bitshares  

Who is running Bitshares?

Sorry I guess I have been sleeping under a rock.

I don't know the details as I have never paid much attention to Bitshares. He's said he is working full time on Steem now. Stan appears to still be involved with Bitshares.

Here's one thread discussing it, there are probalby others:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22594.0.html

[iamnotback]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

But that is irrelevant. Reverse stock splits don't change the value of your holdings.

As I explained upthread, that is done only because Dan didn't reserve enough bytes of precision for token balances. He was "optimizing". 

[iamnotback]

Steemit has literally nothing to do with peertracks afaik. Different team, different code, different target market.

They used the Graphene block chain. I figured maybe the back dealings are closely affiliated. Maybe not.

The pumping shares of musicians had Dan's fingerprints on it. He always designs these weird Rube Goldberg machines that do strange economic incentives.

Peertracks is, or at least was (not sure any more) a direct project of the Bitshares community, so he was probably involved at some level before he left Bitshares. The basic design probably originates in that era. I don't think he is involved at all now, but I could be wrong and he is involved in some minimal way.

Dan left Bitshares  

Who is running Bitshares?

Sorry I guess I have been sleeping under a rock.

I don't know the details as I have never paid much attention to Bitshares. He's said he is working full time on Steem now. Stan appears to still be involved with Bitshares.

Here's one thread discussing it, there are probalby others:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22594.0.html

Oh the incest. Papasan Stan.

Yeah you are just a cold blooded assassin miner. Kudos.

[smooth]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

There are no 'SP tokens' it is a virtual unit that is derived by multiplying the number of VESTS tokens (largely a hidden token in the system from the perspective of end users) by the exchange rate. When the reverse split happens the exchange rate will be reduced by a factor of 10 to compensate. Nothing will change about SP ownership except the position of the decimal. 1 Steem will still be convertible to 1 SP (and vice versa, allowing for the two-year delay).

[magicalacademy]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

The money supply roughly doubles every year, then every three years it is reduced to 1/10. This keeps the coin count numbers approximately within the same range longer term, but doesn't affect much else.

Huh it doesn't affect much else? SP tokens will no longer be backed by 1 steem instead it will be backed by 0.1 steem which is a big deal imo.

3 years later it will happen again and 1 SP token will only be backed by 0.01 steem. You end up in a situation where there is a lot more SP token in circulation than steem , then starts the cash out race !

[bacchist]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

The VEST to STEEM conversion rate will adjust, and the amount of SP will reflect that...

[bacchist]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

The VEST to STEEM conversion rate will adjust, and the amount of SP will reflect that...

The whitepaper says that "prices will multiply by ten." This means that it will take ten times the VESTs to purchase a unit of STEEM... Since SP is denominated in STEEM, but is a representation of the VEST balance, the amount of SP that people see will decrease accordingly.

[bacchist]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

There are no 'SP tokens' it is a virtual unit that is derived by multiplying the number of VESTS tokens (largely a hidden token in the system from the perspective of end users) by the exchange rate. When the reverse split happens the exchange rate will be reduced by a factor of 10 to compensate. Nothing will change about SP ownership except the position of the decimal. 1 Steem will still be convertible to 1 SP (and vice versa, allowing for the two-year delay).

Two explanations are better than one.

[iamnotback]

I joined Steemit the very first day. I've used it a bit and checked back occassionally since. There are plenty of flaws with Steemit that goes beyond the obvious pumpNdump/pyramid/inflation/whatever you want to call it economic problems.

The problem with a platform like Steemit is it caters to the okayest and the most, not the best. What I mean by this is the way the voting/payment system works, everyone is looking for the most "good" content to upvote, because others will upvote it as well. Tits and walls of text are dominating trending day in and day out. You can read these posts, and many of them are riddled with errors and generally average quality. Why? Because everyone involved is there to make a profit (look at the dozens of monetization guides that get voted to the top). It's not about having something new, thought provoking, or different, it's about circlejerking anything and everything that the community can agree is worthy of votes.

The result is a feedback loop and a subsequent echochamber of the same recycled garbage over and over again under new names. Steemit claims to seek to provide a curated news source. That isn't going to happen because the only things getting votes will be in line with the community's opinions. FFS, look at how every other god damn post is an introduceyourself post. There is no value in this platform other than getting rich off of the efforts of others. It's a top heavy ecosystem and everyone disillusioned with the thought that they can make money are lining the pockets of the dev team and the top posters/botters.

I should have realized that because the more high reputation votes on a post that one votes on, the more curation reward they receive. Thanks. That is the most astute post I've read. Thus as you say, it becomes all about the game and not some other quality of the content, thus the content will become dysfunctional w.r.t. (unrelated) to any criteria other than the game.

And this result will apply to their plans for Peertracks also. It won't be about the quality or social diverse matching of the music. It will be about driving pumps to shares.

So the long-term value it is a game. For those who want to lock up their money in SP for two years and play the game.

The two year lockup seems to make it impossible for it to become a popular game. People are just playing while they wait for the SP to cash out over 104 weeks.

Those with $10 on signup, might convert to SP to test the game. Those who get payouts, recieve 50% as SP, so they play the game for 104 weeks.

WTF Frankenstein did Dan create this time.   Daddy Stan needs to take away his computers, that boy is dangerous.

[bacchist]

A lot of the criticism in this thread assumes that the majority of users will think like speculators or day traders... That hasn't been the case so far. Most people have been powering up their Steem.

[iamnotback]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

[bones261]

If 1/10 of the supply is being wiped every 3 years then we have a problem cuz SP tokens will only be backed by 0.1 steem.

This seems like a misreading of some aspect of the economics involved. What are you basing this off of?

Whitepaper says : In order to compensate for the ever increasing precision, the STEEM network performs a 10:1 “reverse split” every 32,000,000 blocks (about 3 years).


When they reached about 5b coins which is about 32 000 000 blocks the split will occur. After that SP tokens will be backed by 0.1 steem since 1/10 have been wiped.

But that is irrelevant. Reverse stock splits don't change the value of your holdings.

As I explained upthread, that is done only because Dan didn't reserve enough bytes of precision for token balances. He was "optimizing". 

Actually, it can change the value in an extreme case. Let's say the market is dumped all the way down to 1 DOGE sat. Temporarily, the tokens would be worth 10 DOGE sats, but if no one puts up any bids, it will be right back down to 1 DOGE sat with illiquidity. So now your tokens are worth 90% less.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

Git withit, man!
You turn yer steem into steam power. To empower the future of the interweb!
gg

[bacchist]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

It means that well over 90% of the Steem in existence is not currently liquid. Though there is additional liquidity in the form of SBD (Steem Dollars), which are backed by one USD of Steem.

[iamnotback]

Most people have been powering up their Steem.

What does that mean?

Git withit, man!
You turn yer steem into steam power. To empower the future of the interweb!
gg

No I think they cash out their payouts and are forced to hold 50% in SP. I doubt anyone is converting STEEM to SP.

A lot of the criticism in this thread assumes that the majority of users will think like speculators or day traders...

In any case, it doesn't matter if they don't learn how to game their SP, those who are learning to game the SP voting are the ones who drive the quality of the content curation to shit. Those who learn to be economically relevant have the most impact.