[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[Vbs]

I've run some more estimates for anyone to see the huge benefits of quickly increasing the hashrate (just considering Avalon chips), even with AMC taking a very small network percentage. Please take everything with a grain of salt (!), as these are only previsions based on speculative data.

I welcome any contributions for accuracy!

Baseline scenario:

• Avalon 10k chips (order #2) is done around 15th june
• Network hashrate assumes a 15% increase per month (geometric progression, r=1.15), with an estimated 381TH/s by december.
• Operating expenses estimated at 10%.
• Dividends/share/month assume 40,000,000 shares
• Accumulated Growth/Expansion Fund expresses income dividends from the respective 20,000,000 shares, which reflects the BTC reserved specifically for hardware buying
• Share valuation reflects the % of accumulated profit/share divided by the bought share price. A 100% figure means the share price is fully paid by earned dividends.

Possible scenario:

• New orders of 10k Avalon chips keep costing BTC782.10
• New order (#3) of 10k Avalon chips done around 28th august (made with 100% BTC from the Growth/Exp Fund)
• New order (#4) of 10k Avalon chips done around 19th september (made with 100% BTC from the Growth/Exp Fund)
• New order (#5) of 10k Avalon chips done around 10th october (made with 100% BTC from the Growth/Exp Fund)
• No more increases in hardware after these orders (hugely unlikely , as the Growth/Exp Fund keeps getting bigger and bigger)
• It's interesting to see that after crossing a certain revenue threshold, the selling of AMC shares to buy hardware isn't really a necessity.

[lewicki]

VBS you still aren't accounting for the shares outstanding correctly as I pointed out to you in the non-censored thread.

And masks, packaging and boards for custom chips will cost over $2M.  That is 20000 BTC.  It will be a long time before this 'company' won't be eating your capital.

Where are you pulling 2 million dollars from? If you don't know what's going on to the board and how many are being made, how can you come up with a number like that?

[nebulus]

VBS you still aren't accounting for the shares outstanding correctly as I pointed out to you in the non-censored thread.

And masks, packaging and boards for custom chips will cost over $2M.  That is 20000 BTC.  It will be a long time before this 'company' won't be eating your capital.

Where are you pulling 2 million dollars from? If you don't know what's going on to the board and how many are being made, how can you come up with a number like that?

Because I know what a semiconductor mask set costs.  And I know what wafer starts cost.  And I know what die packaging assembly and test costs.

Masks two million? No way, $10K tops.

Wafer starts, depends on the size of the wafer. You don't need 300mm/450mm to make ASIC chips you can make due with 100mm or less. You just need a couple of boats of wafers and you can buy these bare or with deposited layers under a thousand from suppliers. You just need a semiconductor catalog and cash.

The feature sizes are relatively large for this type of devices. You don't need sophisticated lithography/etching meaning "cheap and probably quite easy to find someone to pattern".

You can buy packaging and test equipment cheap because there is a lot of it being liquidated from semiconductor factories that upgrade.

You can also outsource to get that done for you which will be even cheaper.

The key is finding all of these stuff at competitive rates and pulling it together.

Two million is quite a stretch.

[nebulus]

VBS you still aren't accounting for the shares outstanding correctly as I pointed out to you in the non-censored thread.

And masks, packaging and boards for custom chips will cost over $2M.  That is 20000 BTC.  It will be a long time before this 'company' won't be eating your capital.

Where are you pulling 2 million dollars from? If you don't know what's going on to the board and how many are being made, how can you come up with a number like that?

Because I know what a semiconductor mask set costs.  And I know what wafer starts cost.  And I know what die packaging assembly and test costs.

Masks two million? No way, $10K tops.

Wafer starts, depends on diameter or the wafer. You don't need 300mm/450mm to make ASIC chips you can make due with 100mm and less. You just need a couple of boats of wafers, you can buy these under a thousand from suppliers.

The feature sizes are relatively large for this type of devices. You don't need sophisticated lithography/etching.

You can buy packaging and test equipment cheap because there is a lot of it being liquidated from semiconductor factories that upgrade.

You can also outsource to get that done for you which will be even cheaper.

The key is finding all of these stuff at competitive rates and pulling it together.

Two million is quite a stretch.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

There are no foundries offering wafer starts at less than 110 nm on anything other than 300 mm.  And 450 mm doesn't exist at all today.

Masks are on the order of 100x what you imagine for a modern process node.

Lets start with this. http://siliconwafer.org/index.html

And so you know... I have an advanced degree in semiconductor manufacturing.

[nebulus]

I have access to inventories of every semiconductor fab in the world, and cost models for every process tech commercially available today.  I know exactly what I am talking about.  And a Ph.D. in the field and decades of experience in the business.  Your attempt at credentialism doesn't impress me in the slightest.

Okay, do everyone a favor and put up a real cost analysis then.

I'll leave this here...

blog.zorinaq.com/?e=73

[lewicki]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.msg2323290#msg2323290

Feb 17th order for an Avalon has received a tracking number.

[wonker]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.msg2323290#msg2323290

Feb 17th order for an Avalon had received a tracking number.

nice 

[drdanishkhan]

The tracking number it seems are being given out randomly 

So mr slaughter did you receive tracking details yet on your order??

[stereotype]

I have access to inventories of every semiconductor fab in the world, and cost models for every process tech commercially available today.  I know exactly what I am talking about.  And a Ph.D. in the field and decades of experience in the business.  Your attempt at credentialism doesn't impress me in the slightest.

Okay, do everyone a favor and put up a real cost analysis then.

If I was seeking investors I would.

What businesses/s have you started, and what business/s do you currently run? Thanks

[Ashitank]

I hope my purchase of shares @ 0.00089999 doesn't disappoint when now shares are available @ ฿0.000750. I understand Mr. Slaughter needs to raise capital to buy more hardware , hope it is all worth.

[kslaughter]

I hope my purchase of shares @ 0.00089999 doesn't disappoint when now shares are available @ ฿0.000750. I understand Mr. Slaughter needs to raise capital to buy more hardware , hope it is all worth.

If you are in Long Term, you won't be disappoint.  The speculators drove the price down.  I expect the price to rise after the Avalon's get here.

[Vbs]

On these latest estimates I've taken into account a cost of BTC1000 for each 10k chip order + board assembly, and an even more conservative scenario of 3 month delivery from order to mining start.

Please take everything with a grain of salt (!), as these are only previsions based on speculative data.

I welcome any contributions for accuracy!

Baseline scenario:

• Avalon 10k chips (order #2) is done around 1st july.
• Network hashrate assumes a 15% increase per month (geometric progression, r=1.15), with an estimated 381TH/s by december.
• Operating expenses estimated at 10%.
• Dividends/share/month assume 40,000,000 shares
• Outstanding shares assume 2,000,000 shares are sold, with not many more selling after that to keep the growth funds high
• Growth/Expansion Fund dividends/m expresses income dividends from 40m shares less the outstanding shares sold to investors, which reflects the BTC reserved specifically for hardware buying
• Share valuation reflects the % of accumulated profit/share divided by the bought share price. A 100% figure means the share price is fully paid by earned dividends.

Possible scenario:

• New orders of 10k Avalon chips each month costing BTC1000 (order + assembly; linear progression).
• Selling of AMC shares to investors in order to buy hardware isn't really a necessity after covering the BTC deficit in august/september, as it will bring down the available BTC to the growth fund. Even if no one buys more shares, the effect would only be a short delay between batch orders.
• After september the trickle effect from the 2.8TH/month increase is substantial, with the growth fund keeping a very healthy balance for investing in even more hardware

Edited for clarity.

[stereotype]

On these latest estimates I've taken into account a cost of BTC1000 for each 10k chip order + board assembly, and an even more conservative scenario of 3 month delivery from order to mining start.

Please take everything with a grain of salt (!), as these are only previsions based on speculative data.

I welcome any contributions for accuracy!

Baseline scenario:

• Avalon 10k chips (order #2) is done around 1st july.
• Network hashrate assumes a 15% increase per month (geometric progression, r=1.15), with an estimated 381TH/s by december.
• Operating expenses estimated at 10%.
• Dividends/share/month assume 40,000,000 shares
• Outstanding shares assume 2,000,000 shares are sold, with not many more selling after that to keep the growth funds high
• Growth/Expansion Fund dividends/m expresses income dividends from 40m shares less the outstanding shares sold to investors, which reflects the BTC reserved specifically for hardware buying
• Share valuation reflects the % of accumulated profit/share divided by the bought share price. A 100% figure means the share price is fully paid by earned dividends.

Possible scenario:

• New orders of 10k Avalon chips each month costing BTC1000 (order + assembly).
• Selling of AMC shares to investors in order to buy hardware isn't really a necessity after covering the BTC deficit in august/september, as it will bring the available BTC to the growth fund down. Even if no one buys more shares, the effect would only be a short delay between batch orders.
• After september the trickle effect from the 2.8TH/month increases is substantial, with the growth fund keeping a very health balance for investing in even more hardware

Great stuff. Thanks for your time on this.

[Vbs]

Great stuff. Thanks for your time on this.

Np, I'm already doing it for myself.

Bottom line: KS, please only sell the least amount of shares needed for immediate expenses, as the dividends in the medium-term will be more than enough for any new investment!

[stereotype]

Great stuff. Thanks for your time on this.

Np, I'm already doing it for myself.

Bottom line: KS, please only sell the least amount of shares needed for immediate expenses, as the dividends in the medium-term will be more than enough for any new investment!

We should be seeing a status report within the next few weeks, so will be interesting to see how your numbers align.

Nice one. 

[Vbs]

We should be seeing a status report within the next few weeks, so will be interesting to see how your numbers align.

Nice one. 

Exactly! I will keep them updated also. I really need to get this into google docs!

[kslaughter]

Great stuff. Thanks for your time on this.

Np, I'm already doing it for myself.

Bottom line: KS, please only sell the least amount of shares needed for immediate expenses, as the dividends in the medium-term will be more than enough for any new investment!

We should be seeing a status report within the next few weeks, so will be interesting to see how your numbers align.

Nice one.  

Yes, Getting close on the Avalon's, someone received their info where they purchased on the 17th, we are on the 18th.  The first 3 are at order # 1245 which is a low number in the batch.

[lewicki]

Great stuff. Thanks for your time on this.

Np, I'm already doing it for myself.

Bottom line: KS, please only sell the least amount of shares needed for immediate expenses, as the dividends in the medium-term will be more than enough for any new investment!

We should be seeing a status report within the next few weeks, so will be interesting to see how your numbers align.

Nice one. 

Yes, Get close on the Avalon's, someone received their info where they purchased on the 17th, we are on the 18th.  The first 3 are at order # 1245 which is a low number in the batch.

Lookout naysayers! Them's fightin' words.

[kslaughter]

The tracking number it seems are being given out randomly 

So mr slaughter did you receive tracking details yet on your order??

Not yet. 

[drdanishkhan]

The tracking number it seems are being given out randomly 

So mr slaughter did you receive tracking details yet on your order??

Not yet. 

You'll get it soon..   
personal advice.. Try to get in touch with your buyers.. sayin that you dont have time.. pisses alotta them off..
If you come out and explain in clear words rather than just blowin evryone off you might get a pretty nice sales in the future..
just sayin
Cheers