THE RISE AND RISE OF MONERO

[Spoetnik]

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

Monero is one of the more successful crypto coins implementing anonymity as a core feature.  If you are going to be outside of the law, you better have some anon tech. And if you are going to be "inside the law" and law abiding, you don't need crypto: fiat is better.  What is outright dangerous, is to be outside the law with a transparent crypto.  What is outright meaningless, is to be a law-abiding crypto.  So the only MEANINGFUL crypto is anon crypto.  Maybe "crypto outside the law" is a failure, but then ALL OF CRYPTO is a failure, because crypto has no meaning "inside the law".  It is a ridiculous concept, that is just as ridiculous as "fire arms that cannot shoot".  Maybe owning fire arms is a failure, and then fire arms as a whole are a failure.  But in any case, owning non-shooting fire arms is ridiculous.  IF you consider fire arms, they should be able to shoot.  IF you consider crypto, it should be anonymous.

That's the relationship with the subject.

See? You and all the other shill's just did it again.

You say it's successful because you say it's successful.

You know for people who THINK you are awfully smart you sure post a LOT of dumb shit here all year round.
Why not say i HOPE it will be successful or i THINK it will be successful one day ?
Because News Flash.. it's not.

And if you guys dare say the price to me one more time i am going to lose my shit  
Dino you just finished telling us all about the Greater Fools game.. exactly !
Hence price means fuck all and you KNOW IT !

And once again.. this is what pisses me off.
There is no Rise and i highly doubt there will another rise (as per topic title)
All of you have sweet fuck all here.
Even the people who support ANON coins know there will be more trouble ahead and the odds are sketchy at best.

Dino you keep trouncing around this concept that a crypto coin SHOULD be anon right ?
Well..
Think of it this way.. the entire system is contingent on ANON being a success.

security ? and adoption ?

I have addressed the security lots ..i have an old topic here called [FACT] Anon coins will never work !
And take a wild guess what i said on it ?

Custom API, so I don't think this affects anyone else. We've disabled betting in the meantime whilst we sort this out, but I really think the lesson to other operators is not to be overconfident in your code or in your setup. Everything can and will be compromised, so assume it's going to happen and put safeguards in place to handle that eventual scenario.

Hmm who's that ? And why did that guys team of shill's argue with me on my topic then ?
Oh and across the forum for two years running ?
Seems they do in fact agree with me contrary to their incessant arguing and calling me a troll etc.

But i digress..
We're talking about success ?
Ok then let's carry on

Adoption has to be the key right ? Or it's not a currency.
I HAVE already touched on my next point previously on this topic but let me see if i can REALLY hammer it home for you all.

ANON tech is mandatory ?
Ok let me play along then.. let's say it is..
Well then, is it adopted and USED yet ?
NO !
The Monero shill's here down played their DM coin involvement after it was pointed out it was looking bad.
They went on to claim it was *ONLY* used at 3% of the Dark Markets.
SO ? Get it ?
You can not claim it's a success for that reason then either because it's not used on DM's

So what is left ?

0

I also previously alluded to the fact that it seems to me that the Monero shill's are putting all their eggs in one basket claiming ANON tech is the big meal ticket.
If that is the case then i said you face a barrier.. the law !
Then i mentioned public perception and the current existing financial structure as a barrier let alone law makers and enforcers themselves.

The existing Financial machine around the world is not going to link up with and support Monero.
It's just not happening and why is because of LAW.. never mind DM reputation etc.
And never mind implementing sketchy forum code made by kids onto world wide financial systems that need to be battle hardened tested and secure ..see my above fluffypony comment

Further more they would have to essentially be the lapdog for Risto and his giant cheap bags he got.
They would have to buy his bags at some point to use the coin etc.
And then would have to follow what ever the Monero idiots say and do or TAKE IT OVER.

You think a big bank wants to have a major partnership with Risto's estimated half million doll bags he's holding ?
Think of it this way why did the Jaxx wallet dev quit Monero support ?
Because the Monero dev's randomly decided to break the system on him forcing him to rewrite all his code.
And he didn't want to do that.
In other words the coin Monero is in fact centrally controlled by Risto and his minions here.
And a bank partnership would be linked to that as the bank leaders around the globe playing second fiddle to King Risto and his paid employee fluffypony & friends and what ever whims he has at the moment (which has proven to be problematic see the Monero MEW topic)

You REALLY want to get into this guys ?
You REALLY want to parade around chanting Monero success ?
Fine.. then eat up the FUD hard.  
You deserve it because you are playing dumb (or are) and selling a scheme presented in a decetful way here.

Security is presented as bullet proof contrary to fluffypony''s earlier comment.
Even though the simple fact is if it was exploited the entire system would fall apart at once.
Once one transaction is exposed every transaction ever made would be..
Every DM user all at once would be vulnerable in 1 hack incident.
But..
They present this coin as bullet proof and make sure to shill on hard 24/7 crying FUD to any criticism.
A post like this by toknormal for example will of course get trolled by them rather than addressing the concerns or admitting problems etc..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg17896089#msg17896089

..almost done  

Monero shills are trying to paint a deceitful picture.
They are doing so because it's in their financial interest.
Which is why King Risto bragged on Poloniex about making another forum game that needed donated user funds which was never accounted for and how he laughed at me because he claimed he made thousands on the previous one.
It's why they have a gambling site.. to turn a business profit.
It's why the shill's deem Monero a success not stop harping that Monero's price is good.
Their true motivations are not altruistic and honest ..they are greedy and deceitful.
Honest people behave honestly.. it's really that simple.

Like analogies ?
A firearm is used as such as the inventor intended.. Monero is not.

One last point..
In order for a currency to be validated by the worlds major 1st world govt's it has to be bail-out-able.
Yeah i just made up that word
Would the govt of the USA bail out a Monero system in a recession like that have and will again in the future with FIAT ?
No fucking chance.. so it would mean they won't let it slide into the existing financial structure.
Even if they WANTED to support Monero they can not.. because it was made by design to evade AML law.
Which would mean they have to allow terrorism financing and money laundering etc just to bend the rules for Monero.. not happening.

Well i guess i was wrong Monero is at $15 sorry everyone.

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[ekoice]

Yes, bitcoin is pseudo anonymous and Monero is fully anonymous. Monero overcomes bitcoin in this aspect.But there is also a complaint that monero,due to its anonymous transactions is widely used in dark markets.

[owlcatz]

Yes, bitcoin is pseudo anonymous and Monero is fully anonymous. Monero overcomes bitcoin in this aspect.But there is also a complaint that monero,due to its anonymous transactions is widely used in dark markets.

Wait, what? But, didn't I first hear about Bitcoin from DNM usage? 

[cointabo]

Yes, bitcoin is pseudo anonymous and Monero is fully anonymous. Monero overcomes bitcoin in this aspect.But there is also a complaint that monero,due to its anonymous transactions is widely used in dark markets.

Wait, what? But, didn't I first hear about Bitcoin from DNM usage? 

You can trace transfers made on the bitcoin blockchain, on Monero you cant. Thats the difference. You can read on the multiple busts of DNM users because of bitcoin.

[error08]

Yes, bitcoin is pseudo anonymous and Monero is fully anonymous. Monero overcomes bitcoin in this aspect.But there is also a complaint that monero,due to its anonymous transactions is widely used in dark markets.

I'm wondering if Mr Satoshi has thought that bitcoin should not goes fully anonymous in order to deal with government.
Yes, people want a cryptocurrency that has fully anonymous feature, but it is a double edge sword as it can't develop further without penetrate government regulations. Bitcoin could be an alternative currency (of fiat money worldwide) but monero only reach an alternative cryptocurrency.

[Spoetnik]

Yes, bitcoin is pseudo anonymous and Monero is fully anonymous. Monero overcomes bitcoin in this aspect.But there is also a complaint that monero,due to its anonymous transactions is widely used in dark markets.

Wait, what? But, didn't I first hear about Bitcoin from DNM usage?  

You did ?
What in the news saying stuff about arrests of criminals ?
Anyone i talked to on the street over the years say they heard of it and it's criminal shit.
Bitcoins reputation is bad.. REALLY BAD !
I know because 99.99% of people of all types who had no idea what it really is told me to my face.

Apparently Monero is going to the moon though so forgive me people.. crack and guns is the future i guess.. my bad. 

[Dafar]

Don't you guys mean the Rise and FALL of Monero?

[francism]

Don't you guys mean the Rise and FALL of Monero?

Nope, Monero is all about moving upward and falling down is not an option.

[Whtwabbit]

"Where we are going we don't need governments Marty"

[dinofelis]

Apparently Monero is going to the moon though so forgive me people.. crack and guns is the future i guess.. my bad.  

No, economic freedom.  Like freedom of speech.

And yes, economic freedom is "really bad" to many people, like freedom of speech is really bad to many people (and even more so when religion holds its sway).

[electronicash]

its already more than $12, it use to stay at $0.50 for almost a year but wen't up last year.  i therefore conclude Monero can be as hell of a coin if we all just get to be conscious with privacy which people will really be in the future due to identity thief. I once work with a group of transcribers who transcribes court depositions, didn't you guys know that they record all the Social Security numbers of individuals that mentions it?  

[Spoetnik]

Apparently Monero is going to the moon though so forgive me people.. crack and guns is the future i guess.. my bad.  

No, economic freedom.  Like freedom of speech.

And yes, economic freedom is "really bad" to many people, like freedom of speech is really bad to many people (and even more so when religion holds its sway).

What was that crap ? 

Freedom to buy Fentanyl or pistols with the serial number scraped off ?
Freedom to evade paying taxes while the rest of us foot the bill ?

I told you before i better not catch you driving on my paved roads then.

Your never ending horrendous fail-analogies STILL don't work bud.
No matter how many times you come out swingin' stickin' up for ole Monero i keep putting you on your ass.

I guess you came here to break the law and topple the worlds governments though huh ?
Hmm weird i came to support a digital currency.
Who am i to judge? ..i guess we all have our priorities. 

[dinofelis]

Apparently Monero is going to the moon though so forgive me people.. crack and guns is the future i guess.. my bad.  

No, economic freedom.  Like freedom of speech.

And yes, economic freedom is "really bad" to many people, like freedom of speech is really bad to many people (and even more so when religion holds its sway).

What was that crap ?  

Freedom to buy Fentanyl or pistols with the serial number scraped off ?
Freedom to evade paying taxes while the rest of us foot the bill ?

Indeed.  Like the freedom to question God's and the King's authority were considered bad.  Freedom not to be religious while the others have to prey and obey the rules of the high priest.

But also to have the freedom to exchange an apple for an orange, without having to give apples to the state and their parasites.

See, where I live, if I were to exchange fully legally an apple for an orange, things happen like this:

You have an orange, I have an apple.  We both have also 1 Euro, and we consider that the market price of an apple, and an orange, is 1 Euro.

I buy your orange, and I pay you one Euro.  On that one Euro, you have to pay 20% of VAT.  So you obtain 0.8 Euro in your business.  To get that 0.8 Euro out of your business, to buy my apple, you have to pay 23% of social security contributions, and 30% of income tax (if you are part of the upper middle class).  That means that you get in the end, 0.43 Euro.

Now, you buy my apple for 1 Euro.  I do the same.  So I end up holding 0.43 Euro.

On our exchange of 1 apple for 1 orange (worth exchanged: 1 Euro against 1 Euro), we paid together 1.14 Euro to the state.  Each time one exchanges an economic value of A, one has to provide the state with 1.14 times A.   Roads are not that expensive.  States are.  Because they are generators of "con jobs".

Being able to exchange an orange for an apple is what I call economic freedom.

I told you before i better not catch you driving on my paved roads then.

And I told you you were wrong.  Because you could have said the same about telephone, television and other initial state-monopolies on economic goods, like roads, houses, space rockets, satellites and so on.

[NUFCrichard]

I have been a little out of the loop in the world of alts recently.
Why did Dash explode and Monero not? I know that the price of Monero has been rising too, but the Dash/XMR ratio is higher than it was.

Did someone start to accept Dash, or is it just speculuation (PnD)?

[toknormal]

Yes, bitcoin is pseudo anonymous and Monero is fully anonymous

I wish people would ditch this term "pseudo anonymity". It's totally meaningless.

Something is either named or it isn't. The fact that you can have off-chain anecdotal information about the parties to a particular trade doesn't make the money that was used for that trade any less "anonymous".

There are types of monterary media - e.g. debt based money - which derive their very existence from a contractual basis. For example, if you sign a mortgage agreement the bank will monetise that agreement for you so that you can exchange it for a house. That type of contractual money is nominated and the associated encryption of its transactions has more to do with security than privacy. i.e. it's to make sure that the right person is able to perform transactions and not all and sundry. You don't have much privacy because the bank sees everything and members of the public staff the bank.

In cryptocurrencies, however, a system of public/private keys is used so security isn't an issue. Authenticity, however is because we no longer have a trusted third party to back the money - which is why blockchains are transparent but private keys are...."private".

Gold nuggets are anonymous (not named). Barrels of oil are anonymous. Lumps of coal are anonymous. But if we stand in a circle and pass a lump of coal around, the fact I saw who had it before me doesn't make the coal any less anonymous.

So there is no "pseudo-anonymity". There is simply off-chain anecdotal knowledge of certain transactions, which is part of life and a good thing. Something that applies to every collateralising, base monetary token whether physical or electronic. Encryption is not something that adds any value to such a token. It's a tunnel for hiding stuff, not a monetary property.

[dinofelis]

There are types of monterary media - e.g. debt based money - which derive their very existence from a contractual basis. For example, if you sign a mortgage agreement the bank will monetise that agreement for you so that you can exchange it for a house. That type of contractual money is nominated and the associated encryption of its transactions has more to do with security than privacy. i.e. it's to make sure that the right person is able to perform transactions and not all and sundry. You don't have much privacy because the bank sees everything and members of the public staff the bank.


In cryptocurrencies, however, a system of public/private keys is used so security isn't an issue. Authenticity, however is because we no longer have a trusted third party to back the money - which is why blockchains are transparent but private keys are...."private".

Your (eternal) error is to think that monetary assets HAVE TO be backed by something.  They don't have to.  A monetary asset is a monetary asset when there's a collective belief in its acceptance against value.  How that belief came to be, how it is sustained, and whether it is "legit" doesn't really matter, the only thing that matters is that the belief exists in the mind of the person you want to give the asset to, in order to obtain goods/services.  That's all.  If I have doggie poop, but my neighbour is believing that others will accept doggie poop for goods and services, then I'm able to obtain goods and services from him against doggie poop I provide, and hence, doggie poop is, at that moment, a monetary asset.

The belief in its acceptance against value is the single, only, sole thing that defines a monetary asset.

Now, there are different methods to keep that belief going, to get it going and so on, but they are just tools, and there's no need for them to exist, if the belief can be maintained in any other way.

ONE way to get the belief going in a monetary asset, is that it is somehow redeemable against something that is recognized as valuable.  That can be another monetary asset of which the belief system is more firmly established, it can be some or other commodity of which the value is established because there's a users' market for it, or it can be an enforceable promise of delivering value by a debtor, in as much as one believes that the debtor can really be forced to deliver.  This is the idea of "backing" a monetary asset: to have it derive its value from something else that is valuable and which you can get "for sure" with the monetary asset.

But it is not necessary.

Of course, one thing that kills all belief, is if everybody can make arbitrary amounts of the monetary asset.  If the difficulty of creating one-self the monetary asset is lower than the difficulty of providing value to obtain the asset in a trade, of course this is not going to work. 

[toknormal]

Your (eternal) error is to think that monetary assets HAVE TO be backed by something.

I don't think I've stated or implied that ever.

I've always said that Bitcoin is an unbacked asset and that that's its value basis - same as precious metals, diamonds, whatever.

The point about backed vs unbacked is that in a so called bearer token or "bearer instrument" there is not a distinct definition of ownership and possession. Assets which are "backed" therefore specifically trade ownership and are consequently subject to privacy/security priorities where obfuscation is appropriate since they only manifest in a record-keeping context.

The "IOU" tokens you trade on an exchange are such backed (contractual money). The blockchain tokens are not.

(Anyway. Now is not exactly the best time in history to be entrusting one's life's savings to a layer of encryption ).

https://twitter.com/hashtag/vault7

[dinofelis]

(Anyway. Now is not exactly the best time in history to be entrusting one's life's savings to a layer of encryption ).

https://twitter.com/hashtag/vault7

Because you think your bitcoin private keys are safe then ?

[johnwest]

I hope the Rise and Rise of Monero go on for years as I have bought some when I felt that it has all the strength of going to the top.
It is the 4th most favorite altcoin to buy from the people only behind Etc, Litecoin and dash so I hope that the price of monero gradually increase and become the future Bitcoin.

[toknormal]

Because you think your bitcoin private keys are safe ?

Because public transparency is what supports their value, not time-bombed clumsy layers of obfuscation.