🔶 YOLOdice.com 🔶 suspended on 16st Mar 2021

[Beyn]

Thanks for your reply.

I have allready gone trough the FAQ and I still believe that my statement above is right and yours is wrong.

Consider this simple scenario:

EVERYONE invests with 10x leverage.

So if 10% of the site bankroll are lost EVERYONE should loose their whole investment and the bankroll should be 0 by your logic. Yet it will be at 90% because only 10% are lost.. right ?

So effectively it means that if everyone invests with the same leverage then this removes the leverage effect completely.

see what i mean.. ?

Now.. looking at the numbers.. not everyone has invested with 10x leverage but actually 95% of the investors have !

edit: take a look at another extreme example:

Again everyone has invested with 10x leverage. Basicly its impossible for the investors to go bust, but by your logic a 10% movement would send all the investors bust. Yet this cannot happen because ALL the money is leveraged meaning there is 10x more bankroll available...

[1714773839]

1714773839

[Kiritsugu]

Thanks for your reply.

I have allready gone trough the FAQ and I still believe that my statement above is right and yours is wrong.

Consider this simple scenario:

EVERYONE invests with 10x leverage.

So if 10% of the site bankroll are lost EVERYONE should loose their whole investment and the bankroll should be 0 by your logic. Yet it will be at 90% because only 10% are lost.. right ?

So effectively it means that if everyone invests with the same leverage then this removes the leverage effect completely.

see what i mean.. ?

Now.. looking at the numbers.. not everyone has invested with 10x leverage but actually 95% of the investors have !

This part "So if 10% of the site bankroll are lost EVERYONE should loose their whole investment and the bankroll should be 0 by your logic. Yet it will be at 90% because only 10% are lost.. right ?" is not correct.  The bankroll would not be 0.  The bankroll would be 90%, but investor's investments would be 0%.

Let's assume the bankroll is funded entirely by 5 people (which means the house itself has 0 coins of its own), each investing 1 BTC at 10x (so 10 "theoretical" BTC each).  This means the ACTUAL bankroll is 5 coins, but the leveraged bankroll is 50 coins.  Someone comes to bet on the site and wins 0.50 BTC (10% of the bankroll), that means each of the 5 investors have lost 100% of their investments, meaning the effective actual bankroll would now be 4.5 BTC (calculated after the players' profits) rather than the 0 it was previously (since the house had no coins of its own).  Each investor invested the same amount, and lost the same amount at 10x leverage.


Now let's flip the logic, same scenario: 5 players invest 1 BTC each at 10x, and some lucky player comes along and loses 0.50 BTC, again 10% of the current bankroll (before adding the profit).  The actual site bankroll now looks to be 5.5 BTC, grown by 10%, and each of the original investors' investments has grown proportionally, including the 10x leverage.  So normally their 1 BTC would have grown to be 1.1 BTC, but because they invested at 10x, their investment is now 2 BTC instead of 1 BTC.

Each player profited the exact same amount at 10x leverage (100% profit in this scenario), because your investment gains are based on the effective bankroll's gains, not the leveraged bankroll's gains.  If the investors profits were based on the leveraged bankroll, you would be right.  But it's based on the actual physical bankroll.

Maybe that's where you're confused?  It doesn't matter what everyone else has their investments leveraged at, because the profit from your investment are proportional to the percent of effective bankroll gains, multiplied by your leverage.

Does that make more sense now?  If not, I'm more than happy to ask ethan_nx to come in here and try to explain when he can.


EDIT: Wanted to add a line that might help you understand.  The leveraged bankroll is just a number.  Leveraging as a process itself does not affect other players or their investments in any way, only the multiplication of profits/losses you experience personally.

[Kiritsugu]

This part you added (after I responded):
"edit: take a look at another extreme example:

Again everyone has invested with 10x leverage. Basically its impossible for the investors to go bust, but by your logic a 10% movement would send all the investors bust. Yet this cannot happen because ALL the money is leveraged meaning there is 10x more bankroll available..."

There is not 10x more bankroll available.  There is only the effective bankroll available.

10 players invest 1 BTC each at 10x.  Effective bankroll is 10BTC, leveraged bankroll is at 100 BTC (0% house-owned, 100% investor owned).  House loses 10% of effective bankroll which is 1 BTC.  Effective bankroll is now 9 BTC (100% house-owned, 0% player owned).

Players experienced a 100% loss because they invested at 10x. Investing at 10x is essentially borrowing 9x your investment from the house (in "pretend btc") and adding it to your investment to equal 10x your original investment.  Which is why when the house loses 10%, you lose 100%.

As I mentioned previously, the leveraged bankroll of 100BTC doesn't ever come into any math, and I think that's where you're mixed up.  All losses and gains are based on the effective bankroll, not the leveraged; and leveraging as a process itself only affects your PERSONAL losses and gains, it doesn't affect other investors in any way.  The leveraged bankroll number is just basically a pretty number to look at.

Another important thing to note for the math, is when the house's effective bankroll experiences 10% losses, players invested at 10x lose 100%, and the original coins they invested are added to the effective bankroll at 1x, not 10x.  The effective bankroll is ALWAYS 1x, it is never leveraged (though technically 1x is considered a "leverage" even though it's not), as leveraging only exists on the investor's end of the specturm.

[Beyn]

Now let's flip the logic, same scenario: 5 players invest 1 BTC each at 10x, and some lucky player comes along and loses 0.50 BTC, again 10% of the current bankroll (before adding the profit).  The actual site bankroll now looks to be 5.5 BTC, grown by 10%, and each of the original investors' investments has grown proportionally, including the 10x leverage.  So normally their 1 BTC would have grown to be 1.1 BTC, but because they invested at 10x, their investment is now 2 BTC instead of 1 BTC.

So... 5 players invest 1 BTC.. that makes a total of 5 BTC ..

Now you have somebody who looses 0.5 BTC.. thus making the bankroll 5.5 BTC

Now you're saying those investors are showing a balance of 2 BTC .. all of them withdraw their funds.... how do you get 10 BTC when there is only 5.5 available ??

[Kiritsugu]

Now let's flip the logic, same scenario: 5 players invest 1 BTC each at 10x, and some lucky player comes along and loses 0.50 BTC, again 10% of the current bankroll (before adding the profit).  The actual site bankroll now looks to be 5.5 BTC, grown by 10%, and each of the original investors' investments has grown proportionally, including the 10x leverage.  So normally their 1 BTC would have grown to be 1.1 BTC, but because they invested at 10x, their investment is now 2 BTC instead of 1 BTC.

So... 5 players invest 1 BTC.. that makes a total of 5 BTC ..

Now you have somebody who looses 0.5 BTC.. thus making the bankroll 5.5 BTC

Now you're saying those investors are showing a balance of 2 BTC .. all of them withdraw their funds.... how do you get 10 BTC when there is only 5.5 available ??

Ethan_nx and/or Scott (the owners) would be responsible for paying them that BTC.

But in that scenario ethan_nx and Scott have no investments in the bankroll, so they would need to pay out of pocket.  In the actual casino, I'm fairly sure they have a lot invested, besides just their time and effort haha.

[Beyn]

Ok.. with you saying that the owners would be responsible for the payout your version makes sense.

Still .. are you sure its actually that way?

Because that could mean that in a bad scenario (some whale *loses a lot on the site ) they would be liable to huge payouts because of the leverage?

Either that or they are setting the max-bet limit really low so that swings above some few % are mathematicaly extremly unlikely.


edit: *i meant lose instead of wins

[Kiritsugu]

Ok.. with you saying that the owners would be responsible for the payout your version makes sense.

Still .. are you sure its actually that way?

Because that could mean that in a bad scenario (some whale wins a lot on the site ) they would be liable to huge payouts because of the leverage?

Either that or they are setting the max-bet limit really low so that swings above some few % are mathematicaly extremly unlikely.

I'm like 99.9% positive, I'll ask ethan_nx to come in here and look over my logic and make sure I didn't miss anything.  I've spent the last 4 years or so doing on and off btc gambling on many different sites, and I've modded for 3 different dice sites, so I have a pretty good understanding of how they work, but I am human and I can make mistakes.

And if a whale won a lot on the site, they wouldn't be paying anything to investors, only the whale.

And you're right, most casinos place the max win per bet limit at anywhere from 0.10% to 1% of the effective bankroll, which helps mitigate massive losses being incurred.  Because as the effective bankroll drops, so will the max win per bet.  This prevents a whale from coming in and dropping 200btc on 2x and winning half the bankroll haha.

[pixie85]

Love how I almost made it into the top seven of the last betting competition.
Better luck next time to me I guess.

The more you wager the more chance of you to win that wagering competition

Hah looking at the top 7 list makes me think that those guys weren't there for the prize. That's like some change, a penny lying on the pavement, compared to the money they brought in. Unbeatable for some of us little guys

[bias]

I think that Ethan forgot to update and deposit, this weeks investment commissions.
maybe it's working on some new update...a new competition...
or he is just sleeping!

[Kiritsugu]

I think that Ethan forgot to update and deposit, this weeks investment commissions.
maybe it's working on some new update...a new competition...
or he is just sleeping!

Referral commissions are on demand now, you're supposed to request them yourself.  If you go to the Referral page you will see a "transfer to balance button".  Now you don't have to wait for Sundays anymore

If you don't have any it means your referrals didn't play.

[sha08kit]

What is the minimum deposit, withdrawal & withdrawal fee??

[Kiritsugu]

What is the minimum deposit, withdrawal & withdrawal fee??

I don't believe there is a minimum deposit amount, but minimum withdrawal is 10k satoshi I think and withdrawal fee is 10k satoshi as well for the slow option and 50k for the fast option.

[ethan_nx]

@Beyn, @Kiritsugu:

Effective bankroll - it's the one that includes "virutal" coins that come from leverage. Real bankroll - it's the amount actually invested.

If you invest 1 BTC on x10 leverage, it contributes 10 BTC to the effective bankroll, but 1 BTC to the real bankroll. We call reall bankroll just "bankroll".

Now, shares you investment get you is the ration of leveraged amount of your investment to the effective bankroll. Right now the site has 3,500 BTC effective bankroll, but only 399 BTC real bankroll. Your 1 BTC x10 investment would give you 10/3500 ~= 0.2857 % share in profits.

This is the real leverage system. If you leverage is larger than 1, we "lend" you virtual coins that are reflected only in effective bankroll. This way your investment is more sensitive to site profit changes.

The system automatically closes the investments that cannot be sustained. If your 1BTC x10 investment was worth 10 BTC at the beginning (in eff. bankroll), but it's value drops to 9 BTC (in eff. bankroll), it cannot be susteined anymore, because it's this 1 BTC you invested is gone. It's very similar to Forex trading.

Finally, a generalized rule is that x10 investment can sustain site loss equal to 10% of effective bankroll. This makes sense. Look above - your 1BTC x10 investment reduces to 9 BTC when site loses 10% of it's effective bankroll.

In general, the higher the leverage, the more "sensitive" is your investment to site profit/loss. It's a nice thing when site profit goes up (you can earn up to 10x more than a x1 investment), but when site profit goes down, your investment loses 10 times faster than a x1 investment.

This system is consistent and works. It does not allow a situation when we (me and Scott) have to add anything to the bankroll or pay investors because suddenly a debts is created.

So far, if you started with a 1 BTC x1 investment when YD launched, you would earn ~10% and end up with 1.1BTC. If you invested your 1 BTC with x10 leverage, you would end up with ~100% revenue, close to 2 BTC.

I hope this helps. Our FAQ has more examples on investing with leverage.

Cheers,
Ethan

[Kiritsugu]

Ah I just mixed up the terms xD

[bias]

I think that Ethan forgot to update and deposit, this weeks investment commissions.
maybe it's working on some new update...a new competition...
or he is just sleeping!

Referral commissions are on demand now, you're supposed to request them yourself.  If you go to the Referral page you will see a "transfer to balance button".  Now you don't have to wait for Sundays anymore

If you don't have any it means your referrals didn't play.

I don't see anywhere that i write about referral commissions but for investment commissions.
As far as i know,it's not the same...

[Kiritsugu]

I think that Ethan forgot to update and deposit, this weeks investment commissions.
maybe it's working on some new update...a new competition...
or he is just sleeping!

Referral commissions are on demand now, you're supposed to request them yourself.  If you go to the Referral page you will see a "transfer to balance button".  Now you don't have to wait for Sundays anymore

If you don't have any it means your referrals didn't play.

I don't see anywhere that i write about referral commissions but for investment commissions.
As far as i know,it's not the same...

What do you mean then?  Investment commissions are instant too, unless you mean ethan_nx processing the 20% cut.  In that case I'm not sure, probably soon though.  Sorry for being confusing. xD

[ethan_nx]

I think that Ethan forgot to update and deposit, this weeks investment commissions.
maybe it's working on some new update...a new competition...
or he is just sleeping!

Referral commissions are on demand now, you're supposed to request them yourself.  If you go to the Referral page you will see a "transfer to balance button".  Now you don't have to wait for Sundays anymore

If you don't have any it means your referrals didn't play.

I don't see anywhere that i write about referral commissions but for investment commissions.
As far as i know,it's not the same...

What do you mean then?  Investment commissions are instant too, unless you mean ethan_nx processing the 20% cut.  In that case I'm not sure, probably soon though.  Sorry for being confusing. xD

Investment commission is once per week, on Sunday evening UTC. However, if an investment did not make any profit since it was open or since the last commission, no commission is taken from it. Maybe this is what happened.

Cheers,
Ethan

[sha08kit]

What is the maximum bet??

[Chinesegandalf]

wow , welcome to bitcoin version of just dice , but yolo dice more advance than jd tbh.
very nice site. love it. so fairly fair.
kudos team yolo <3

[zupdawg]

What is the maximum bet??

there is none IIRC but there is max profit per bet, you can see once you are logged in the left part of the screen under your stats