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Author Topic: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!  (Read 38090 times)
Miz4r
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April 13, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
 #121

Mtgox failing more than btc24? I don't think so, the situation at btc24 is much more serious than the one Mtgox has or had.

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bitbadger
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April 13, 2013, 02:27:44 PM
 #122

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.

-----

For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  Smiley
Maybe you could get in touch with him, make an offer to help. You could try via an email to the support helpdesk for Bitcoin-24.

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April 13, 2013, 02:28:53 PM
 #123

2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.
As a developer I can tell you that you are plain wrong on this one.
He was indeed incompetent. There are still quite few markets out there, and none of them has proven to be reliable, just because he build the second biggest, it doesn't mean sh_t, it's not like the first one is a very impressive server anyway. So... no.
This bitcoin histeria attracted very many people that will do anything for quick money. Perhaps when bitcoin is well stablish the markets will play an insignificant role and be confined to their little corner. At the moment, they are the easiest way to get bitcoins, despite all their issues.
Using bitcoin24 was not a very wise idea, thats for sure. But AFAIK there is no market that has consistently proved to be reliable and serious.


Quote
Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.
Are you seriously posting on a message board addressing your conversation peer not to reply?
If you do not want to take part on a discussion, then don't. Saying one's opinion then tell the other person not to reply... honestly?
Why would you think you got to say the last word?
Never ceases the amuse me that 15+ years after the inception of web forums, people still think they look good with this atitude.
killerbread
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April 13, 2013, 02:33:41 PM
 #124

I had 35 Euros on that site... Have they released any more information to when it will be back up?
Taduliauskas
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April 13, 2013, 02:53:33 PM
 #125

Quote
Quote
Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.
Are you seriously posting on a message board addressing your conversation peer not to reply?
If you do not want to take part on a discussion, then don't. Saying one's opinion then tell the other person not to reply... honestly?
Why would you think you got to say the last word?
Never ceases the amuse me that 15+ years after the inception of web forums, people still think they look good with this atitude.

Well I would like to correct you "no need to reply" and "do not reply" is different things. 

"no need to reply" means - I don't give a f**k if you reply, because I do not see a point to continue this discussion
"do not reply" means - I give a f**k, who says the last word

In a conclusion, I could say, I don't give a f**k how I look facing the forum, I just expressing my opinion.

Quote
Quote
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.
As a developer I can tell you that you are plain wrong on this one.
He was indeed incompetent. There are still quite few markets out there, and none of them has proven to be reliable, just because he build the second biggest, it doesn't mean sh_t, it's not like the first one is a very impressive server anyway. So... no.
This bitcoin histeria attracted very many people that will do anything for quick money. Perhaps when bitcoin is well stablish the markets will play an insignificant role and be confined to their little corner. At the moment, they are the easiest way to get bitcoins, despite all their issues.
Using bitcoin24 was not a very wise idea, thats for sure. But AFAIK there is no market that has consistently proved to be reliable and serious.

Then you are saying that competent is the one who can create perfect market ? No crash, no lag, immune to hacks and so on ? If everybody would think like that, then we most likely wouldn't have any markets at all, because everyone of common exchange markets are vulnerable. But anyway this situation is just a misunderstanding, because of difference of word value...

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April 13, 2013, 03:09:17 PM
 #126

Well, my SEPA transfer eventually came through during the crash. I had half of my assets in BTC and the other half in EUR at the site (which I have been using for a while previous to a couple of weeks ago without any problems).

I requested a SEPA withdrawal of a fair chunk of money a few hours before everything went tits up.

I'm holding out hope that he'll be able to get this sorted, and would urge people to keep in mind Hanlon's Razor* during these problems…







* Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Moebius327
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April 13, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
 #127

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.

-----

For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  Smiley
Maybe you could get in touch with him, make an offer to help. You could try via an email to the support helpdesk for Bitcoin-24.



I would really like to help as well.

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ivanc
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April 13, 2013, 03:25:14 PM
 #128

@Taduliauskas @zemario

Simon indeed was not fit for the task. He should have learned basic database theory before doing an exchange of this scale. He can become a good developer if he wants to. But not knowing about transaction was simply announcing the failure of the exchange.
If I had seen his posts before that, I would of course never have used his exchange. My mistake.

I'm supportive of Simon. This guys needs time and less pressure. Let's give him that. But let's also be honest, his development skills were not up to the task. That's all i'm saying.
I was already simply trying to give people an estimate and probabilities based on what I know. I might be off the mark, maybe you have more information than I do. But you say the engine went nuts for only a few hours before the shut down. Yes, it went nuts then, but without a proper implementation of transactions, it has been flawed for months. That's just the reality.
ivanc
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April 13, 2013, 03:26:49 PM
 #129

I could also very easily help Simon.
I don't know if he wants help though. He has been running his exchange by himself from the beginning, knowing what his technical limitation were.
He also didn't even realize that he had to do proper KYC to run an exchange.
This is worrying, I'm not sure he realize that he needs help.
Apraksin
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April 13, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
 #130

Simons been on reddit http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46
Taduliauskas
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April 13, 2013, 04:30:33 PM
 #131

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I am waiting for the "go" from my lawyer to know, what I can write in the official statement I will give all users with email and on reddit.

Hopefully soon enough we will get more information "officially".

Quote
because the polish bank account was closed and I tried to do the business again over a German bank account.

Not so long ago, in my country, two banks had bankrupt. All procedures took ~month..
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April 13, 2013, 04:36:12 PM
 #132

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I am waiting for the "go" from my lawyer to know, what I can write in the official statement I will give all users with email and on reddit.

Not so long ago, in my country, two banks had bankrupt. All procedures took ~month..
thats not the case here. the bank is still functional, but the funds may well be seized due to the illegale operations.
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April 13, 2013, 04:38:39 PM
 #133

If someone is active on reddit (and since for some reason the operator has only posted there) might be a good idea to point out to him that trades are still occurring almost 24 hours after shutdown.

http://s2.bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR
gugubagiBTCplease
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April 13, 2013, 04:53:50 PM
 #134

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Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets

Could you please first read consistently what I wrote, and then reply ?

1. I was talking about these ideas circumstantial presentation to Simon directly...

Quote
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.
   
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.

3-4.You can categorize or call it how you like. But still I see no arguments, that trying to look at situation calmly is worse than complaining.

5-6. ?_?

Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.




ok youre right lets stop that, doesnt make a sense to fight here and i see some pints in your arguments too... il hand you over my pipe of peace.

btw,  there is allready a thread about helping simon where ever we could. (even i think we cant afterwards..., i guess that should have been made before):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175123.20

lets hope he is good and didnt ran into something too heavy for him. but from what i read, he is not alone. i thought he did the whole project by himself...

bye
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April 13, 2013, 06:11:32 PM
 #135

I find it extremely suspicious that a whois search on bitcoin-24.com returns a "WhoisGuard Protected" identity.  See http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=bitcoin-24.com .

It would be helpful if bitcoin-24 admin would post some supporting documentation concerning their situation here (or any information at all, for that matter).

In the meantime, I've sent three emails to them now in the last 48 hours.  No reply yet...

One more thing: While bitcoin-24 was offline, I'd like to understand how it is possible that trades were being placed.  It's now been over 7 hours since the last trade was reported, but that is a lot more recent that the time since they've been down.

See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

Is there some other way to trade than via the web interface?  What am I missing here?

donjoe
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April 13, 2013, 06:55:14 PM
 #136

Those should be old trade requests registered before the interface was taken offline. I hope. Smiley
DeathAndTaxes
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April 13, 2013, 06:56:21 PM
 #137

Those should be old trade requests registered before the interface was taken offline. I hope. Smiley

Over the course of an entire day and reported with timestamps after the closure?
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April 13, 2013, 09:32:27 PM
 #138

...
One more thing: While bitcoin-24 was offline, I'd like to understand how it is possible that trades were being placed.  It's now been over 7 hours since the last trade was reported, but that is a lot more recent that the time since they've been down.

See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

Is there some other way to trade than via the web interface?  What am I missing here?

Maybe those trades were being used internally to test database collision problems, notice sometimes two trades executing at exactly the same time. The streaming socket had not been turned off so bitcoincharts heard the tests. That's just my thoughts.


donjoe
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April 14, 2013, 02:30:02 AM
 #139

Over the course of an entire day and reported with timestamps after the closure?
What makes you so sure the trades are timestamped at the source and not just at the destination (i.e. whatever chart website you're using)?
Milow
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April 14, 2013, 02:36:04 AM
 #140

Seems like a lot of people will have issues now that the Poland SEPA account has been suspended?

Hope to see all my money back before the EU crisis hits again and everything gets lost..
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