Bitcoin-24.com matching engine seems broken, site down.

[600watt]

I'm commenting on something mentioned earlier in the thread:

It says that the confiscation and it's publication enables Tatverletzte (victims basically) to claim their funds through the legal system, which the prosecutor "strongly recommends". This can of course cost money, and there's no guarantee to get your money anyway.

basically its telling: the prosecutors have secured the money of the german bank account. it stays with the prosecutor until the procedure is finished. it can only be withdrawn by the owners by filing a civil lawsuit in germany.


Caution! I did not say that for claiming the money Hausdorf has to be sued. check with your german lawyer first! maybe one has to file a claim against the state of germany to get the money - those procedures of "secured funds" differ from country to country.

First off: The prosectutor in any jurisdiction usually is pretty well paid, and he's also on top of the 'power structure', which means basically he's the biggest dog in the yard, and can do whatever he feels like. He/it has no incentive to 'play nice' or to 'care for customers' in any cases whatsoever. This is the current system we're dealing with. As a matter of fact, anybody can become victim to confiscation of funds, if some entity in power decides that something must be investigated. It need not even be a legit case, but heck - we keep all those millions of euros frozen 'just in case'. Basically forcing everybody involved to follow the will of the prosecutor. In such a system there's no freedom. Freedom is when you can manage and control your own money, and have nobody confiscate them.

That's where bitcoin is great. Now, there's probably a lot of small time investors that had money in bitcoin-24.com, and the prosecutors are telling these people to file a law suit ? Basically, if you're owed 500 EUR, then only visiting a lawyers office are probably going to set you back the same amount.

In reality the 'it can only be withdrawn by the owners by filing a civil lawsuit in germany' is extortion. It's the biggest bully in the schoolyard saying, yeah - you can have your candy if you pay me 100 dollars, then holding the candy up high out of reach asking for an amount that no kid can pay.

From the looks of it, it appears to me that Simon got in deep without the proper paperwork, and now he's inside the bureacracy machine, that will just do it's work, and they (prosecutor) can basically do anything they want, and more often than not - they say they do something because of a certain reason, while the true reason is something else entirely. And more often than not, even if there's been no crime - they (the prosecutor) will still be able to find something to charge you for.

I would advise everyone to accept bitcoins for work they do, and use bitcoins online and in brick and mortar stores, and using the traditional banking system as little as possible. Eventually, if enough people do this, we will have a real impact, and we will be helping Satoshi reaching his original goal.

I would've loved to see the attack on any bank that for no apparent reason shut down the bank accounts of high profile politicians, or the son or the daughter or the prosecutor himself. I can't see any prosecutor accepting something like that..

It's all about being the biggest dog, and at the moment, we're feeding the biggest dog.

nice post. that is a good analysis.
 

[Amitabh S]

Can anyone do a tldr of the post quoted above?

[Herodes]

Can anyone do a tldr of the post quoted above?

Are you THAT lazy ?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Can anyone do a tldr of the post quoted above?

No bitcoins will be returned.

[600watt]

Can anyone do a tldr of the post quoted above?

No bitcoins will be returned.

why not?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Can anyone do a tldr of the post quoted above?

No bitcoins will be returned.

why not?

I think the better questions is ... why would he?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Can anyone do a tldr of the post quoted above?

No bitcoins will be returned.

why not?

I got such impression after reading the post.

[MegaBrutal]

Actually, the last communication is that Bitcoins can and will be returned, while the main problem is with the frozen bank accounts.
Previously it seemed BTC can't be returned because of the investigation - hearing the opposite is good news for BTC owners.
But... I believe it when my BTC will be successfully withdrawn with 6+ confirmations...
But certainly, it seems now there is hope!

[600watt]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Stellungnahme_26.04.2013.pdf

monday??

[wilfried]

the announcement of the prosecutor only talks about money, not bitcoins, so maybe, bitcoins are not confiscated.

[MegaBrutal]

the announcement of the prosecutor only talks about money, not bitcoins, so maybe, bitcoins are not confiscated.

Not maybe. According to the document linked by 600watt, the bitcoins are not confiscated. This is an official statement from Simon's lawyer, so we can take it granted... Now, let's wait to get out BTC back!

Now if it still won't happen, we'll have no doubt of Simon's bad faith.

[Herodes]

the announcement of the prosecutor only talks about money, not bitcoins, so maybe, bitcoins are not confiscated.

Not maybe. According to the document linked by 600watt, the bitcoins are not confiscated. This is an official statement from Simon's lawyer, so we can take it granted... Now, let's wait to get out BTC back!

Now if it still won't happen, we'll have no doubt of Simon's bad faith.

AFAIK, the bitcoins will be able to be returned by introducing a limited feature for withdrawals on the bitcoin-24.com site. Call the lawyers to get more details if required, that's what I've read.

[sbrzol]

i hope btc wont be released
yes, you get back all your bitcoins and who has fiat at that point when the site was closed get back nothing  
( 1 hour later or earlier perhaps you had only fiat and not others)
0 % vs 100%  are you serious  ?     i read somebody has more than 30.000EUR ,
i think if btc will release and fiat lost,  and if i have so much money lost, manhunt is a real choice  not to share the lost beetween of all customers  

and of course if i have so much fiat, i am going to write emails to the site owner, not to release btc, and share the lost, if he wants to live a normal life (everybody knows his identity now, town where he lives, etc. )   so i am sure btc wont be released after a dozen of such emails

authority cant protect the site owner from such threat , cos there was no identity verification for site user,  and emails could send via proxy , etc.

[MegaBrutal]

Personally, I'd feel it unfair if a portion of my bitcoins would have taken to compensate those who lost fiat, because I didn't even trade on the site. Maybe if I was actually using the site, I'd think differently, but that I deposited BTC hours before the site closed doesn't make me feel part of it enough to be willing to share losses.

[sbrzol]

Personally, I'd feel it unfair if a portion of my bitcoins would have taken to compensate those who lost fiat, because I didn't even trade on the site. Maybe if I was actually using the site, I'd think differently, but that I deposited BTC hours before the site closed doesn't make me feel part of it enough to be willing to share losses.

you deposited to the site to trade it within 0.5 - 4 hours , if not then you are crazy to deposit and parking your btc at an exchange
so if the site was closed after 4 hours after you traded and had no btc i think you would change your mind  

so it is bullshit to name a specified time when the site was closed and   you get back all btc 100% and all fiat lost

[MegaBrutal]

I just registered and made my very first deposit on the site. I did't even use the fucking site previously.

[shitaifan2013]

BTC Withdrawals will be enabled on 28. April before 18:00 GTM +2
We had some technical issues.

news ;-) https://bitcoin-24.com/

[MPOE-PR]

I just registered and made my very first deposit on the site. I did't even use the fucking site previously.

Mega brutal indeed.

[sbrzol]

BTC Withdrawals will be enabled on 28. April before 18:00 GTM +2
We had some technical issues.

news ;-) https://bitcoin-24.com/

if you get back all your btc, while me and others lost all our fiat,
i will do everything to make the site owner life hard not to share the lost beetween customers
(if the site was closed some hours earlier i would have only btc at my account or at my wallet,  i made only 1 trade from btc to fiat)

where are the fiat owners?  

[manfred]

i will do everything to make the site owner life hard not to share the lose between customers

Prosecutor already made side owners life hard