Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Chalkbot]

It was supposed to be just an nternet payment method that was fast, cheap, safe, convenient etc., and did not depend on banks or governments.  Somehow "does not depend on" became "is beyond the reach of" or "will free us from" or even "will allow us to destroy". 

Adoption by the "libertarians" was the first of the two calamities that fell on bitcoin and will probably lead to its demise.  The second one was the price increases of 2013, that brought in all sorts of scoundrels, scammers and thieves who saw it as an easy way to take big money from fools.

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

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[Richy_T]

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

Hooray for collectivist misappropriation of wealth. Down with those stinky libertarians who think you should keep what you earn.

Privatized profits and socialized losses for all!*




(*all rich financiers, that is)

[JorgeStolfi]

You've seen the message in the genesis block?

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

I saw it now.  Intriguing, but it is just the front-page headline of the main UK newspaper.

According to the source article, the obvious purpose of that string is to prove that the block was created after that date -- a standard trick often used with photos and videos.   Nothing indicates that the newspaper and date were chosen for the headline.

On the contrary, if the intent was to leave a political message, it should have been more explicit, no?  (Is bitcoin's purpose to make bank bail-outs easier, without having to wait on the decision of government officials?)

[BitChick]

What would cause JorgeStolfi to buy?  Has he ever mentioned what the "tipping point" for him would be?  I am curious.

I already said that. I won't buy it for speculation, investment (whose "sale" I consider a scam), or even to help "the cause" (which at this point seems to have been totally derailed by "libertarians" and greedy financiers).

I may buy some cryptocoin someday to pay for something, if I find that it will be easier/cheaper/safer/faster/etc than the usual means (cash, check, bank remittance, cerdit card , debit card, ...).  Which does not look very likely right now.   

If he changes his mind and buys some he should update [ his signature ].

Of course.

How do you know if Bitcoin isn't an easier/cheaper/safer/faster way to pay if you have never tried it.  Having used it on Overstock.com I can say it was easier/safer/faster and even "cheaper" (mostly because of the fact that the value and hence purchasing power of my bitcoin has increased since last year). 

[adamstgBit]

Is bitcoin's purpose to make bank bail-outs easier, without having to wait on the decision of government officials?

no, bitcoins purpose pipe dream is to make bank bail-outs impossible, by removing the control from governments or large institution.

[billyjoeallen]

The best thing for Bitcoin long term is another test of support on higher volume. Everybody sell.

[adamstgBit]

Who in his right mind would keep 15000 bitcoins on an exchange just to flash it now and then

maybe he has 1500BTC and hes maxed leverage what's the max leverage on bitfinex?

[JayJuanGee]

Ok, I'll leave you guys with your high hopes of moons and trains. I'll have to go and when I'll return, then this username is probably banned already because of the cries of rpietila. But see you all later under a new name.

Why bother?  You have HARDLY invested in bitcoin, and you really do NOT seem very interested.... except to denigrate various strategies.. without really providing insight... 

Yes, expel the unbeliever!

hehehehe... My point is NOT about unbelieving .. but about contribution and substantiating contributions... If a person merely criticizing BTC without adding value concerning why.. then what good does that provide...   Also, some posters seem to be real denigrating about the contributions of others... which really does NOT seem to add value but instead attempt to distract and to side-rail meaningful discussions...

A living example of a strawman setup by the original poster

The post I responded to, which you later edited, simply responded "Don't bother" to Zapffe.

You are talking about me, engaging in strawman... I dont think so... I am just engaging in a conversation.. and I am suggesting reasons why Zapffe seems to be wasting everyone's time and NOT contributing... but anyhow, I am basing on a set of communications with him... Yes, I could be proven wrong that he is in fact a good contributor... but in my experience with his various posts, he seems to admit that he is NOT really contributing in any kind of meaningful way.. of course, he does NOT use those words or come to that conclusion.. but whatever, if posters admit that their purpose is to just spread FUD, then what good are they?  NOT MUCH>.. and accordingly, they should be removed, expelled, etc... .. .

Of course, I have NO power or authority to influence how much trolling is tolerated by the forum... and they come to their own judgements regarding whether posters (members) are contributing to the forum

[windjc]

Who in his right mind would keep 15000 bitcoins on an exchange just to flash it now and then

maybe he has 1500BTC and hes maxed leverage what's the max leverage on bitfinex?

2x1

[JorgeStolfi]

How do you know if Bitcoin isn't an easier/cheaper/safer/faster way to pay if you have never tried it.  Having used it on Overstock.com I can say it was easier/safer/faster and even "cheaper" (mostly because of the fact that the value and hence purchasing power of my bitcoin has increased since last year). 

Currently it is not, because the few things that I wish to pay through the internet do not accept bitcoin, but accept credit cards and bank transfers.

I will not buy a life-size rattan elephant or something at Overstock just to make the bitcoins his CEO owns more valuable. 

And if I had invested in bitcoin when I first learned of it (mostly through Rick Falkvinge's rave), I would be very sorry and angry now.

[JayJuanGee]

Well, there will not be any denial or confirmation of the rumor until Monday 00:00 UTC (08:00 CST) at least.  Huobi's traders have finally gone to bed it seems. 

If I had to guess what will happen until then, I would say that the price will probably drift down a bit more, as the less active clients become aware of the ban and show up in the marketplace, and skeptical traders get contaminated by the general doubt.  Say, the price may reach 2800-2900 CNY by Sunday night.

On Monday, if the report is proven false, the price should quickly return to 3500-3600 CNY.  If the report is confirmed, it will presumably start falling again; how deep and how fast, I can't guess.

Is this reasonable? Too obvious?

if they ban it will you then buy a bitcoin?

What would cause JorgeStolfi to buy?  Has he ever mentioned what the "tipping point" for him would be?  I am curious.

Jorge may be kind of like Peter Schiff... He probably has his own little secret stash... b/c ultimately, he realizes that it has various good upside investment potential.

[Erdogan]

Reserve demand can only hold up for so long.

This is true.  Reserve demand for gold has only held up for several thousands of years.  Our high-technology and globally-interconnected economy appears to now be shifting reserve demand to digital assets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.0

The special thing about money is that there is only reserve demand. Pure money like bitcoin, you can not use them for anything. You can not consume them, you can not squeeze out the energy used to create them. If you have bitcoin and want to consume something, like food, you have to sell your bitcoins for food. The reason why this reserve demand exist, and why everybody wants money, is the superior sellability of the stuff. This is the same for all money, you can always sell them. The reason why some things become money and other things not, is the 10 or so specific qualities people look for in a stuff they don't want to use, but just hold for a short or long time, then trade because it is immediately tradeable for anything. Reserve demand equals money value.

[Chalkbot]

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

I saw it now.  Intriguing, but it is just the front-page headline of the main UK newspaper.

Ah, I see now. Just a coincidence that was the headline that day.  

[billyjoeallen]

Who in his right mind would keep 15000 bitcoins on an exchange just to flash it now and then

If knowing someone has that much around worries you that he might dump, then maybe the purpose of having them there is to worry you.

[cbutters]

Who in his right mind would keep 15000 bitcoins on an exchange just to flash it now and then

If knowing someone has that much around worries you that he might dump, then maybe the purpose of having them there is to worry you.

Yep... scare the pigs and buy cheap coins. No wonder the rich get richer.

[fonzie]

I am going to close my longs now. Seems to dangerous to leave my computer alone with open longs right now  

[JayJuanGee]

What would cause JorgeStolfi to buy?  Has he ever mentioned what the "tipping point" for him would be?  I am curious.

I already said that. I won't buy it for speculation, investment (whose "sale" I consider a scam), or even to help "the cause" (which at this point seems to have been totally derailed by "libertarians" and greedy financiers).

I do agree that there seem to be a lot of libertarians in bitcoin, and attempting to suggest that bitcoin is the libertarian solution.  There is some truth in some of these libertarian claims, but I try NOT to let them bother me to the extent that some of the ideas seem contrary to mine.  In other words, I believe that there is room in the bitcoin world for NON-libertarians and NON libertarians can positively influence the direction of bitcoin.

greedy financiers are definitely in the midst.. but they are NOT gonna derail bitcoin.. at least NOT in the near term future.

So, derail is the wrong word.. influence and manipulate, yes to some extent, but derail.. nope... dont think so...

[podyx]

I am going to close my longs now. Seems to dangerous to leave my computer alone with open longs right now  

Interesting...

[JayJuanGee]

What would cause JorgeStolfi to buy?  Has he ever mentioned what the "tipping point" for him would be?  I am curious.

I already said that. I won't buy it for speculation, investment (whose "sale" I consider a scam), or even to help "the cause" (which at this point seems to have been totally derailed by "libertarians" and greedy financiers).

I may buy some cryptocoin someday to pay for something, if I find that it will be easier/cheaper/safer/faster/etc than the usual means (cash, check, bank remittance, cerdit card , debit card, ...).  Which does not look very likely right now.   

If he changes his mind and buys some he should update [ his signature ].

Of course.

Bitcoin is inherently libertarian.

Dont think so.. .even though bitcoin may be very useful tool for many libertarian considerations

[Erdogan]

So people how have you positioned yourself in this dreadful sideway slumber?

I for one am in fiat waiting on the sideline for a more voluminous change of more the 15 USD in either direction

All in, why not?