Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[empowering]

Don't let them fool ya,
Or even try to school ya! Oh, no!

We've got a mind of our own,
So go to hell if what you're thinking is not right!
Love would never leave us alone,
I am the darkness there must come out the light.

(The road of life is rocky and you may stumble too,
So while you point your fingers someone else is judging you)
Love your brotherman!

Don't let them change ya, oh! -
Or even rearrange ya! Oh, no!
We've got a life to live.

They say: only - only -
Only the fittest of the fittest shall survive -
Stay alive! Eh!

Could you be love and be loved?
Could you be love, wo now! - and be loved?

(You ain't gonna miss your water until your well runs dry;
No matter how you treat him, the man will never be satisfied.)
Say something!

 

Passin out some good vibes...

ONE LOVE


http://youtu.be/I4D_5yxlSBc

(I recommend reading Proudhon and listening to Marley at the same time for a gentle soothing balm for the mind)

[Richy_T]

X is NOT Y

You do know how analogies and metaphors work, right?

[JayJuanGee]

When I was a kid, my mother could call the local doctor and he would COME TO OUR HOUSE and treat us (an unbelievable concept in America now), and he would charge us $10 for that service.  Everyone I knew was about as poor as we were, but I cannot once remember hearing someone say "Oh my God, what will we do about the medical bills?".  The mess that the American health care system is in now is another creation of our government - but again, that is a long argument that exceeds greatly the bounds of this thread.

Indeed, it was the creation of a government who traditionally considered health care not to be its concern, and therefore left it entirely to private enterprise.  As it always happens, left to its "self-regulation"  the health care market degenerated into an oligopoly, whose only concern is to maximize the revenue of their owners; who that maintains their dominance of the market by buying out the government. 

To keep the post within the topic: that is the way that the bitcoin mining network is going now.

By the way, I hope you are aware that the Government of the Distributed Libertopian Republic of Bitcoin, aka the Bitcoin Network, is currently supported entirely by the printing of new money, to the tune of ~4000 BTC/day; which means 10%/year inflation rate (in the strict sense).  As with any inflation tax, this one is taken from all those who own bitcoins.

And, by the way, it was with  those fiat bitcoins that KnC bought their Platinum membership in The Shrem Karpelès & Friends Foundation.  Can you see the pattern forming?

Your first paragraph started out by saying something sensible, and then you morphed into some stupid-ass FUD comments by making some kind of stretched analogy...

Funny how that is.       

[Richy_T]

If you have ever heard about the multiplier effect of money, you would come to realize that distributing money in various ways... especially to poor people has much better multiplier effects than giving that money to an ever narrowing sliver of people who neither need the money NOR deserve the money.

Ignoring the moral implications of taking from one person to give to another, you are forgetting the overhead effect of the government performing such actions. Overhead which typically ends up in the pockets of... the rich.

[Richy_T]

but basic education should be available to all, and probably at all stages in life...

See, I have absolutely no problem with that. And I certainly will not be one to stand in your way when you choose to fund it.

Why would he, if he can vote for people that force you to fund it?

Indeed.

[Schickeria]

X is NOT Y

You do know how analogies and metaphors work, right?

That varies a lot. Today a read here a lot of analogies that worked in a popolism way.

[Bittings]

So Bitstamp wall at $517 is calling in reinforcements. Still less than $4mil to $600 though.

[JayJuanGee]

When I was a kid, my mother could call the local doctor and he would COME TO OUR HOUSE and treat us (an unbelievable concept in America now), and he would charge us $10 for that service.  Everyone I knew was about as poor as we were, but I cannot once remember hearing someone say "Oh my God, what will we do about the medical bills?".  The mess that the American health care system is in now is another creation of our government - but again, that is a long argument that exceeds greatly the bounds of this thread.

Indeed, it was the creation of a government who traditionally considered health care not to be its concern, and therefore left it entirely to private enterprise.  As it always happens, left to its "self-regulation"  the health care market degenerated into an oligopoly, whose only concern is to maximize the revenue of their owners; who that maintains their dominance of the market by buying out the government.

This statement shows an utter ignorance of the evolution of the current health care issues in the US.  Anyone can research this and see that the situation was going pretty damn well until the government decided to dive in to the health care market head first with Medicare.  I was a just a kid when Medicare became law, and the effect on health care costs was apparent pretty quickly thereafter, and has never let up since.

There were no old people dying in the streets of America before Medicare, btw.

Everything was going well before Medicare, and then medicare came in and screwed up everything.  Are you sure that there is causation there, rather than mere correlation?

The medical system is really screwed up in the USA< and a lot of the reason that it is screwed up is b/c medical insurance companies are calling the shots in a lot of ways regarding the standards of care, what is treated and what is NOT, and creating a lot of lack of transparency regarding the various costs while monetizing nearly all aspects of medical care.

This was NOT just caused by Medicare, and also Obama care reforms do NOT go anywhere near to adequately reforming the wide-spread corruption of our current medical infrastructures and incentives.

[seljo]

[adamstgBit]

bitfinex trying to lead us the wrong way?

but why!?

[JayJuanGee]

Yes.  It seems that over the years, the government has allowed too much privatization (and money making) of the public good which is various aspects of the education infrastructure.

Yes, the government picks winners and appropriates the wealth of others to apportion to its favorites. This is an argument for reduced government, not more.

I am NOT sure whether I am getting into any kind of arguments regarding whether there should be more government or less government. 

Over and over, my point is that there is too much money influence in politics that pervert and divert the people from being able to use their government to their advantage, and accordingly, frequently the government goes towards serving only a narrow set of interests of the very wealthy.  There may be places in which less government could serve well, but sometimes there may be needs for more and stronger government in order to adequately and efficiently battle some of the very rich who have become too big (maybe some banking types, or military industrialists or manipulators like the Koch brothers.. and there are probably a few more entities and/or individuals that have become too big for government to adequately control - and when I say control I don't mean anything that is vindictive but people and companies need to act with some restraint and within acceptable boundaries - instead of engaging in criminal - like activities of robbing from the public)

[JayJuanGee]

You are attempting to simplify and to blame the government... the problem is much more complicated, and the government is the people... so let's blame the people for allowing the education infrastructure to evolve into some baloney of complication.  The solution involves putting more of the public back into education and allowing it to serve all aspects of society rather than merely rich and merely the various forms of profit making and divide and conquer that is allowed by the various forms of complicated funding.

The answer is localization and allowing people to make choices for themselves rather than those choices being made by some huge monolithic uncaring entity. When one person messes up, it affects a few. When Government messes up, if affects millions.

I do NOT doubt that there are instances in which there can be increased local control.  However, there is also instances in which regulated entities or community values are crossing over geographical lines and need to be more broader in application and thus more broader in the consensus generating mechanisms and taxation mechanisms.

[seljo]

bitfinex trying to lead us the wrong way?

but why!?

Have no idea why... someone is keeping us in mid orbit for what reason you can only guess...

[xyzzy099]

I'm a little sick of hearing about this "wealth disparity/inequality".  If the rich get 10% richer while those of us who are not rich get only 4% richer, I am ok with that - especially since "the rich" usually means people who are actually starting/growing companies and making life better for others (intentionally or otherwise), while risking their own wealth.

You are sick about hearing about wealth disparity, and you are just throwing out some random numbers to make the problem to seem, not so bad.

Also, there are a lot of assumptions in your comment concerning trickle down economics and your belief in the fallacy that if rich people get richer then they are going to reinvest a good portion of that money in the appropriate infrastructure.  that assumption is NOT correct.

If you have ever heard about the multiplier effect of money, you would come to realize that distributing money in various ways... especially to poor people has much better multiplier effects than giving that money to an ever narrowing sliver of people who neither need the money NOR deserve the money.

Are you really poorer now than you were 20 years ago?  

Sounds like you are using a small sample... and also sounds as if you are engaging in overly optimistic thinking and failing to take into account real changes in society and the deflated value of the dollar or even public services and infrastructure that is available... For example, let's say someone makes $20k per year in 1990 and $20k per year (in the equivalent of 1990 dollars in 2014); however, what are the public services that are available now versus then and what is the infrastructure now versus then and what are the number of hours worked and quality of life... IN fact, most people are NOT keeping up with the wages from the 1990s.. for equivalent job categories and skill sets.

Of all the poor souls I grew up with, very few could answer "yes" to that - and the ones that can are usually going to be victims of other problems created by the government, like the current health care system.

Sounds as if you are again speculating about the government bringing things down be providing reform to healthcare systems.  I doubt that people overall are going to be worse off b/c more people are covered by health care.  That just seems like some speculative talking point.

You say "Sounds like..." and "You imply..." a lot.

Maybe you could try reading what I wrote and taking it at face value, or at least responding to it directly, instead of replying to some vague interpretation you drew from it.  I am not an anarchist, and I am, for the most part, not inclined to generalization, but your every response seems to assume such of me, while at the same time not providing much, other than hand-wavy generalization as support for your own argument - if you really have any thing to say other than "Government is good.  You are a fool not to blindly accept it as your savior, as I have".

As far as multiplier effects go, I recently read a study done by an economist at the San Francisco branch of the Federal Reserve, who attempted to measure the "jobs multiplier" of the stimulus package promoted by the incoming Obama administration back in 2009.  He determined that the president's claim that the stimulus had 'created or saved' ~2,000,000 jobs was an accurate claim.  He also noted that this represented a cost of ~$400,000 per job.  I think this is fairly representative of the multiplier effects I have seen from the government attempting to do the job of the private sector.

Oh, and again - do you really believe Americans are poorer now than they were in the '30s?  I have never seen the American standard of living decline in my lifetime.  When I was a kid, we didn't even have a telephone, or air conditioning (in the deep south!).  Now, even the poorest people I know have cellphones and HDTVs.  Is it different where you live?

[JayJuanGee]

but basic education should be available to all, and probably at all stages in life...

See, I have absolutely no problem with that. And I certainly will not be one to stand in your way when you choose to fund it.

In my thinking, public goods need to be publicly funded and sometimes private entities (persons do end up funding public projects) - public libraries in the usa, for example, have a history of getting their start through considerable endowment from private sources... but that does NOT mean that they will be maintained if that funding were to dry up... Accordingly, currently public libraries receive public funds, but I do NOT know the details of such ongoing funding b/c there are a lot of libraries throughout the USA, and I have seen several examples that some of them seem to have better resources and facilities than others.

[Bittings]

bitfinex trying to lead us the wrong way?

but why!?

Have no idea why... someone is keeping us in mid orbit for what reason you can only guess...

To keep the prices cheap for their lord and master's final plan?

[JayJuanGee]

but basic education should be available to all, and probably at all stages in life...

See, I have absolutely no problem with that. And I certainly will not be one to stand in your way when you choose to fund it.

Why would he, if he can vote for people that force you to fund it?

Are you  a part of the community or NOT?  If so, you have some obligations.  Thank you very much - that is how modern society works.. you can have your input in various ways too, including your vote and including getting involved in the public space.

[Richy_T]

Oh, and again - do you really believe Americans are poorer now than they were in the '30s?  I have never seen the American standard of living decline in my lifetime.  When I was a kid, we didn't even have a telephone, or air conditioning (in the deep south!).  Now, even the poorest people I know have cellphones and HDTVs.  Is it different where you live?

You have to be careful there. The amazing advancement of technology has somewhat masked the loss of (inflation adjusted) income. Sure, you have a TV in every room, two cars in the driveway and a supercomputer in your pocket but your housing costs now take up half your income, you're eating processed, not real food, your wife has to work and you have two kids, not five.

[adamstgBit]

Oh, and again - do you really believe Americans are poorer now than they were in the '30s?  I have never seen the American standard of living decline in my lifetime.  When I was a kid, we didn't even have a telephone, or air conditioning (in the deep south!).  Now, even the poorest people I know have cellphones and HDTVs.  Is it different where you live?

You have to be careful there. The amazing advancement of technology has somewhat masked the loss of (inflation adjusted) income. Sure, you have a TV in every room, two cars in the driveway and a supercomputer in your pocket but your housing costs now take up half your income, you're eating processed, not real food, your wife has to work and you have two kids, not five.

omg how did you know? O_o lol

+1

[JayJuanGee]

X is NOT Y

You do know how analogies and metaphors work, right?

Nice summary of my post... My post is a lot easier to understand that way... 


I thought that I kind of remembered how analogies and metaphors worked, but if you were inclined to school me (and others) a bit on the topic, then I am all ears.