Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

You poor bastards..
After the MtGox fiasco, no one with a college degree will invest any serious sums before they can have proper legal guarantee from the exchanges and it will finally become clear what exactly happened to the missing MtGox coins. People are only guessing at the moment, that maybe someone stole those coins over time and sold them already. But this guesstimate is useless, and it's just as probable that the coins were stolen in one big heist and now someone has the power to crash the entire market to it's knees.
Bitcoin price is currently only experiencing these small pump'n'dump waves, while money is slowly moving out of the market. The market is currently only a playground for gamblers and fanatics.

Pretty much Mt. Gox is a non-factor at the moment.. or a minor factor.. NOT as big as you are making it out to be.  Also, the stolen lost coins (probably 600k coins have already been sold or absorbed into the current price).   It is tough to shock with such exaggerations, no?      

MtGox is not a factor in this forum, but most of the people in this forum are not a factor in bitcoins price. In an outside investors perspective, it's a big factor. People outside this forum don't care about your optimistic guesstimate on the faith of MtGox coins. They want something solid to lean on, when dealing with investments. Otherwise they are not investors, but gamblers. And bitcoin is currently too bloated to have gamblers alone start a new bullrun.

There may be some truth to what you are saying, but I doubt that potential bitcoin investors are giving as much weight to MTGOX factors as you are making out of the situation.  My understanding is that investment and adoption has considered to go up in the BTC space at a considerable rate, in spite of the GOX collapse in February and some of the later news of its various fallouts.  Accordingly adoption and investment and liquidation opportunities are going to help to drive the next upward price wave.. whether that occurs this week, in the next couple of weeks, in the next couple of months or even a year down the road. 

By the way, I doubt it is going to take another year before we find a new ATH.. that will likely soar BTC prices into at least the $3-5K range.. and possibly higher, if such growth is delayed further.  In that regard, I am glad to be amongst early adopters (not as early as some but NOT as late as others, too). 

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[simmo77]

You cant pay your electricity with bitcoins.

Actually, I can here in Australia...

https://www.livingroomofsatoshi.com/

(and no, I'm not affiliated with this site at all, just thought it was a pretty cool service...)

[mmitech]

Yes, inadequately summarize what Rpietila said, and then assert that what he said is "silly."  That helps us to better understand the situation.   

Inadequate? What other way is there to interpret him claiming that there are no sellers left and everyone right now are buying? I'm genuinely curious, and apologies to rpietila if I misunderstood what you said.

he is the prophet of desperate people who cant decide for them selves, most of what he say doesn't make any sense to sane people, but desperate delusional people always tend to believe him and defend his nonsense.

YES.... Mmitech has been wanting the price to go down to the $300s  - at least that is what he has been asserting when he sold in the mid $600s and in the mid $500s.  So yes mmitech talk your book, and maybe you will get lucky (I have my doubts, but it is possible as a long shot that you will get lucky and then be able to double your stash of 50 BTC or whatever lifelong stash you happen to have left from all your LTC losses).

I am investing back only €10K, I see perma-bulls telling people how 1BTC will make them millionaires so I decided to stop being a greedy bastard and have few millions instead of fighting for all the bitcoins, we have to give the chance for others to have coins as well, right ?

I really wont invest more than €10K, my first investment was around € 3-4K and it played really good, so investing the triple of my first investment and cashing all the profits out makes more sense to me

Well, maybe you will begin to become more reasonable if you are NOT attempting extremes, even though you are still tending to throw out denigrating language.  Yes, there are some bulls who retain what seems to be unrealistic expectations of instantly becoming rich.. but you should know as well as anyone that that kind of talk is fairly harmless and even should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, there is NO need to talk about this as a competitive endeavor, and if we invest in reasonable ways, then a lot of us likely will be able to improve our lots in life by acquiring more wealth through the appreciation on the value of bitcoins.  Surely, it may NOT go exactly how planned, but there can be some shared prosperity.  Also, attempts to hoard too much would NOT do to much good, b/c to some extent the success of bitcoin is dependent upon greater and greater adoption and through that adoption, some of the people are going to get rich and maybe even some already rich are going to get richer than early adopters my manipulation and other means.. even luck.  But my point is that it is more mentally healthy to consider how to best invest our own lot rather than being worried about the lots of others, whether they are doing well or NOT as compared with us.

I see you doing the opposite of that, I don't know why you care so much about my trading moves.... I could simply stop talking about trading, but we both know that we are in the wall observer thread, we come here to talk about trading and sometimes about anything.   

[JayJuanGee]

Yes, inadequately summarize what Rpietila said, and then assert that what he said is "silly."  That helps us to better understand the situation.    

Inadequate? What other way is there to interpret him claiming that there are no sellers left and everyone right now are buying? I'm genuinely curious, and apologies to rpietila if I misunderstood what you said.

Maybe you did NOT inadequately summarize him on purpose, but you are putting a lot of new ideas into his communication that he did NOT assert.

In his statement, he is merely suggesting that all sellers have gotten out already a long time ago, and there are NO sellers left.  YES>>>> Maybe he is exaggerating a little bit, b/c there are going to be some exceptions to his assertion; however, what Rpietila is saying is largely true and accurate reflection of what is currently happening in the bitcoin space.  

no, it is not true.

big asic mining companies will dump their coins no matter what the price is.

You have any evidence of this?  or just a bare assertion that is NOT supported by anything beyond your mere thoughts?

you cant pay your electricity with bitcoins.

and I know that there are asic farms that are spending 1 mil of $ every month.

If you assume that ASIC farms are stretching their finances so thin that they do NOT have any fiat and they only have BTC,then maybe they would have to sell some of them.  HOWEVER, if they realize that BTC are currently way under priced and that BTC are likely to appreciate in value considerably, then they may reconsider whether they will cash out.  

Additionally, if they realize that the BTC that they HODL are more likely to go up in value if they do NOT sell at low prices, then they will have a greater incentive to HODL until the prices go a bit higher.  I would think that they have budgeted for downward trends and sideways trends in order that they do NOT have to sell out of desperation.  NO one likes to have to sell out of desperation (and I am sure that there may be some miners that are thinly stretched and forced to sell, but that may be the exception rather than the rule).

Accordingly, we still need evidence if you are going to assert that they are selling contrary to their better interest to HODL... or at least to minimize selling if they need to do it.

I really dont care if you need more evidence. For big miners, mining is a business, so they have to cover their costs from what they mine.

If they pay electricity out of their pocket because they think that the price will go up, they could just stop being a mining business and buy the coins instead.

You do NOT care about evidence b/c you merely want to push your thesis that logically does NOT make sense for the reasons that I described in my earlier post. 

But that is fine, you can stick with your assumptions about miners being stretched razor thin and NOT realizing what is in their own interest(s).  Your assumptions seem pie in the sky to me, but that does NOT mean that you cannot continue with such beliefs b/c it seems to make you feel good to suggest that 3400 coins are being dumped on the market on a daily basis.. when in fact we are likely NOT seeing such dumping. 

And, yes there may be some miners who are also interested in accumulating additional coins by buying some, too.

[oda.krell]

Market not spooked by this wall at all. This is pretty weird considering how nervous people have been. In an unrelated aside, days destroyed is at a absolute minimum: old coin owners are happy to hodl.

+1

I haven't seen this much confidence in the market for months..

It seems like the only thing keeping the price down are these ominous walls

That, and decent buying pressure being visible only in low volume orders, while high volume orders look pretty evenly split between accumulation and distribution.

[dannyspk]

Meanwhile, it looks like if LTC breaks 31 CNY support, it might test 22 CNY level once again.

[atleticofa]

Get ready, September is coming. 

[JayJuanGee]

Yes, inadequately summarize what Rpietila said, and then assert that what he said is "silly."  That helps us to better understand the situation.   

Inadequate? What other way is there to interpret him claiming that there are no sellers left and everyone right now are buying? I'm genuinely curious, and apologies to rpietila if I misunderstood what you said.

he is the prophet of desperate people who cant decide for them selves, most of what he say doesn't make any sense to sane people, but desperate delusional people always tend to believe him and defend his nonsense.

YES.... Mmitech has been wanting the price to go down to the $300s  - at least that is what he has been asserting when he sold in the mid $600s and in the mid $500s.  So yes mmitech talk your book, and maybe you will get lucky (I have my doubts, but it is possible as a long shot that you will get lucky and then be able to double your stash of 50 BTC or whatever lifelong stash you happen to have left from all your LTC losses).

I am investing back only €10K, I see perma-bulls telling people how 1BTC will make them millionaires so I decided to stop being a greedy bastard and have few millions instead of fighting for all the bitcoins, we have to give the chance for others to have coins as well, right ?

I really wont invest more than €10K, my first investment was around € 3-4K and it played really good, so investing the triple of my first investment and cashing all the profits out makes more sense to me

Well, maybe you will begin to become more reasonable if you are NOT attempting extremes, even though you are still tending to throw out denigrating language.  Yes, there are some bulls who retain what seems to be unrealistic expectations of instantly becoming rich.. but you should know as well as anyone that that kind of talk is fairly harmless and even should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, there is NO need to talk about this as a competitive endeavor, and if we invest in reasonable ways, then a lot of us likely will be able to improve our lots in life by acquiring more wealth through the appreciation on the value of bitcoins.  Surely, it may NOT go exactly how planned, but there can be some shared prosperity.  Also, attempts to hoard too much would NOT do to much good, b/c to some extent the success of bitcoin is dependent upon greater and greater adoption and through that adoption, some of the people are going to get rich and maybe even some already rich are going to get richer than early adopters my manipulation and other means.. even luck.  But my point is that it is more mentally healthy to consider how to best invest our own lot rather than being worried about the lots of others, whether they are doing well or NOT as compared with us.

I see you doing the opposite of that, I don't know why you care so much about my trading moves.... I could simply stop talking about trading, but we both know that we are in the wall observer thread, we come here to talk about trading and sometimes about anything.   

I care about your trading to the extent that it may become an issue of discussion.  My discussion of your trading or your assets is NOT done out of envy, but sometimes to bring in check some of your outrageous statements.  If you do NOT make outrageous statements, then it will be easier for me (or anyone else for that matter) to refrain from responding to them or inquiring about them.

Yes, we talk about quite a few things here in this thread, but largely those topics seem to be related to bitcoin, even though sometimes tangentially related to bitcoin...

[Erdogan]

We are faling.Help!

[dannyspk]

Wow. Why is no one panicking!?

[tarmi]

Yes, inadequately summarize what Rpietila said, and then assert that what he said is "silly."  That helps us to better understand the situation.    

Inadequate? What other way is there to interpret him claiming that there are no sellers left and everyone right now are buying? I'm genuinely curious, and apologies to rpietila if I misunderstood what you said.

Maybe you did NOT inadequately summarize him on purpose, but you are putting a lot of new ideas into his communication that he did NOT assert.

In his statement, he is merely suggesting that all sellers have gotten out already a long time ago, and there are NO sellers left.  YES>>>> Maybe he is exaggerating a little bit, b/c there are going to be some exceptions to his assertion; however, what Rpietila is saying is largely true and accurate reflection of what is currently happening in the bitcoin space.  

no, it is not true.

big asic mining companies will dump their coins no matter what the price is.

You have any evidence of this?  or just a bare assertion that is NOT supported by anything beyond your mere thoughts?

you cant pay your electricity with bitcoins.

and I know that there are asic farms that are spending 1 mil of $ every month.

If you assume that ASIC farms are stretching their finances so thin that they do NOT have any fiat and they only have BTC,then maybe they would have to sell some of them.  HOWEVER, if they realize that BTC are currently way under priced and that BTC are likely to appreciate in value considerably, then they may reconsider whether they will cash out.  

Additionally, if they realize that the BTC that they HODL are more likely to go up in value if they do NOT sell at low prices, then they will have a greater incentive to HODL until the prices go a bit higher.  I would think that they have budgeted for downward trends and sideways trends in order that they do NOT have to sell out of desperation.  NO one likes to have to sell out of desperation (and I am sure that there may be some miners that are thinly stretched and forced to sell, but that may be the exception rather than the rule).

Accordingly, we still need evidence if you are going to assert that they are selling contrary to their better interest to HODL... or at least to minimize selling if they need to do it.

I really dont care if you need more evidence. For big miners, mining is a business, so they have to cover their costs from what they mine.

If they pay electricity out of their pocket because they think that the price will go up, they could just stop being a mining business and buy the coins instead.

You do NOT care about evidence b/c you merely want to push your thesis that logically does NOT make sense for the reasons that I described in my earlier post.  

But that is fine, you can stick with your assumptions about miners being stretched razor thin and NOT realizing what is in their own interest(s).  Your assumptions seem pie in the sky to me, but that does NOT mean that you cannot continue with such beliefs b/c it seems to make you feel good to suggest that 3400 coins are being dumped on the market on a daily basis.. when in fact we are likely NOT seeing such dumping.  

And, yes there may be some miners who are also interested in accumulating additional coins by buying some, too.

if you are in a mining business - you dump your coins, unless you are a small miner who overpaid his hardware.

if you dont dump your coins to pay your bills, you are not a miner anymore, but a speculator.

it is simple as that. we can only speculate about the number of coins being market dumped, but I really dont need that information. all I have to know is that there are new 3600 coins out there everyday.

[ChancellorOnABrink]

If 3100 wall on huobi fall, we are in trouble

http://www.ohmagif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/epic-wall-demolition-fail.gif

[wachtwoord]

Yes, inadequately summarize what Rpietila said, and then assert that what he said is "silly."  That helps us to better understand the situation.    

Inadequate? What other way is there to interpret him claiming that there are no sellers left and everyone right now are buying? I'm genuinely curious, and apologies to rpietila if I misunderstood what you said.

Maybe you did NOT inadequately summarize him on purpose, but you are putting a lot of new ideas into his communication that he did NOT assert.

In his statement, he is merely suggesting that all sellers have gotten out already a long time ago, and there are NO sellers left.  YES>>>> Maybe he is exaggerating a little bit, b/c there are going to be some exceptions to his assertion; however, what Rpietila is saying is largely true and accurate reflection of what is currently happening in the bitcoin space.  

no, it is not true.

big asic mining companies will dump their coins no matter what the price is.

You have any evidence of this?  or just a bare assertion that is NOT supported by anything beyond your mere thoughts?

you cant pay your electricity with bitcoins.

and I know that there are asic farms that are spending 1 mil of $ every month.

If you assume that ASIC farms are stretching their finances so thin that they do NOT have any fiat and they only have BTC,then maybe they would have to sell some of them.  HOWEVER, if they realize that BTC are currently way under priced and that BTC are likely to appreciate in value considerably, then they may reconsider whether they will cash out.  

Additionally, if they realize that the BTC that they HODL are more likely to go up in value if they do NOT sell at low prices, then they will have a greater incentive to HODL until the prices go a bit higher.  I would think that they have budgeted for downward trends and sideways trends in order that they do NOT have to sell out of desperation.  NO one likes to have to sell out of desperation (and I am sure that there may be some miners that are thinly stretched and forced to sell, but that may be the exception rather than the rule).

Accordingly, we still need evidence if you are going to assert that they are selling contrary to their better interest to HODL... or at least to minimize selling if they need to do it.

I really dont care if you need more evidence. For big miners, mining is a business, so they have to cover their costs from what they mine.

If they pay electricity out of their pocket because they think that the price will go up, they could just stop being a mining business and buy the coins instead.

You do NOT care about evidence b/c you merely want to push your thesis that logically does NOT make sense for the reasons that I described in my earlier post.  

But that is fine, you can stick with your assumptions about miners being stretched razor thin and NOT realizing what is in their own interest(s).  Your assumptions seem pie in the sky to me, but that does NOT mean that you cannot continue with such beliefs b/c it seems to make you feel good to suggest that 3400 coins are being dumped on the market on a daily basis.. when in fact we are likely NOT seeing such dumping.  

And, yes there may be some miners who are also interested in accumulating additional coins by buying some, too.

if you are in a mining business - you dump your coins, unless you are a small miner who overpaid his hardware.

if you dont dump your coins to pay your bills, you are not a miner anymore, but a speculator.

it is simple as that. we can only speculate about the number of coins being market dumped, but I really dont need that information. all I have to know is that there are new 3600 coins out there everyday.

That's BS because selling your coins means being speculative on one of the many failing fiat types in the world. A sure-shot road to ruin.

[klee]

Wow. Why is no one panicking!?

Pretty much expected scenario - no rally unless the masses enter again.
Now only speculators and fans - with the ASICs we lost too many hobbyists and why the hell should some middle/lower class newbie buy in these prices?
Because moon?

EDIT: Not to mention that the Ripple/Fidor partnership will basically get the biggest piece of the remittance industry

[JayJuanGee]

Yes, inadequately summarize what Rpietila said, and then assert that what he said is "silly."  That helps us to better understand the situation.    

Inadequate? What other way is there to interpret him claiming that there are no sellers left and everyone right now are buying? I'm genuinely curious, and apologies to rpietila if I misunderstood what you said.

Maybe you did NOT inadequately summarize him on purpose, but you are putting a lot of new ideas into his communication that he did NOT assert.

In his statement, he is merely suggesting that all sellers have gotten out already a long time ago, and there are NO sellers left.  YES>>>> Maybe he is exaggerating a little bit, b/c there are going to be some exceptions to his assertion; however, what Rpietila is saying is largely true and accurate reflection of what is currently happening in the bitcoin space.  

no, it is not true.

big asic mining companies will dump their coins no matter what the price is.

You have any evidence of this?  or just a bare assertion that is NOT supported by anything beyond your mere thoughts?

you cant pay your electricity with bitcoins.

and I know that there are asic farms that are spending 1 mil of $ every month.

If you assume that ASIC farms are stretching their finances so thin that they do NOT have any fiat and they only have BTC,then maybe they would have to sell some of them.  HOWEVER, if they realize that BTC are currently way under priced and that BTC are likely to appreciate in value considerably, then they may reconsider whether they will cash out.  

Additionally, if they realize that the BTC that they HODL are more likely to go up in value if they do NOT sell at low prices, then they will have a greater incentive to HODL until the prices go a bit higher.  I would think that they have budgeted for downward trends and sideways trends in order that they do NOT have to sell out of desperation.  NO one likes to have to sell out of desperation (and I am sure that there may be some miners that are thinly stretched and forced to sell, but that may be the exception rather than the rule).

Accordingly, we still need evidence if you are going to assert that they are selling contrary to their better interest to HODL... or at least to minimize selling if they need to do it.

I really dont care if you need more evidence. For big miners, mining is a business, so they have to cover their costs from what they mine.

If they pay electricity out of their pocket because they think that the price will go up, they could just stop being a mining business and buy the coins instead.

You do NOT care about evidence b/c you merely want to push your thesis that logically does NOT make sense for the reasons that I described in my earlier post. 

But that is fine, you can stick with your assumptions about miners being stretched razor thin and NOT realizing what is in their own interest(s).  Your assumptions seem pie in the sky to me, but that does NOT mean that you cannot continue with such beliefs b/c it seems to make you feel good to suggest that 3400 coins are being dumped on the market on a daily basis.. when in fact we are likely NOT seeing such dumping. 

And, yes there may be some miners who are also interested in accumulating additional coins by buying some, too.

if you are in a mining business - you dump your coins, unless you are a small miner who overpaid his hardware.

if you dont dump your coins to pay your bills, you are not a miner anymore, but a speculator.

You act as if you know something, but it really looks as if you are attempting to narrowly define concepts in order that you can be correct, but even if you narrowly define concepts, you seem to have NO evidence regarding the level to which there may be a supposed prevalence of miners who "dump their coins" in the real world.  It makes little to NO logical sense for the reasons that I already described in my earlier post, and your making definitions does NOT shed better light on what is ACTUALLY taking place IN THE REAL WORLD.

[dannyspk]

Wow. Why is no one panicking!?

Pretty much expected scenario - no rally unless the masses enter again.
Now only speculators and fans - with the ASICs we lost too many hobbyists and why the hell should some middle/lower class newbie buy in these prices?
Because moon?

EDIT: Not to mention that the Ripple/Fidor partnership will basically get the biggest piece of the remittance industry

I thought masses were supposed to enter late in the game.

[mmitech]

I care about your trading to the extent that it may become an issue of discussion.  My discussion of your trading or your assets is NOT done out of envy, but sometimes to bring in check some of your outrageous statements.  If you do NOT make outrageous statements, then it will be easier for me (or anyone else for that matter) to refrain from responding to them or inquiring about them.

Yes, we talk about quite a few things here in this thread, but largely those topics seem to be related to bitcoin, even though sometimes tangentially related to bitcoin...

I would like you to point one of my outrageous statements, I want to know what you think is outrageous.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

There may be some truth to what you are saying, but I doubt that potential bitcoin investors are giving as much weight to MTGOX factors as you are making out of the situation.  My understanding is that investment and adoption has considered to go up in the BTC space at a considerable rate, in spite of the GOX collapse in February and some of the later news of its various fallouts.  Accordingly adoption and investment and liquidation opportunities are going to help to drive the next upward price wave.. whether that occurs this week, in the next couple of weeks, in the next couple of months or even a year down the road.  

By the way, I doubt it is going to take another year before we find a new ATH.. that will likely soar BTC prices into at least the $3-5K range.. and possibly higher, if such growth is delayed further.  In that regard, I am glad to be amongst early adopters (not as early as some but NOT as late as others, too).  

I respect your doubts and guesses, because it's a speculation forum afterall. But, if you are an experienced investor, then these "little" things are The things that you have to consider when investing. To me, the market seems weak and it's perfectly logical to me why. Most of the people here like to think that the weak market is all one conspiracy, and there are always whales around the corner who will throw millions at BTC any moment now.. any moment now.. it will surely happen any moment now. To me, things are more simple then that. Currently it's just very hard to convince someone new to buy bitcoins without looking like a snake oil salesman.

[dannyspk]

If 3100 wall on huobi fall, we are in trouble

Already broken on OKcoin.

[ChancellorOnABrink]

OkCoin volume is a joke

Stop look at it, srsly