Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[matt4054]

If it continued shooting up without a sideways period it wouldn't be sustainable. There are steps all the way up to here on the charts, and I hope we are on the sideways part of another step up. New fiat from the banks could push the price up another step next week.

Agreed. Consolidation and profit-taking are natural after every leg up. It's just that the process can take longer with different steps. Just when you might think you've found a rhythm, it changes.

There was a time when people here talked about a standard weekend price drop after a week of rises. More recently it's been weekend rallies and weekday consolidation. This past week threw us a curveball and with a midweek rally and weekend consolidation (so far).

Lots of luck trying to predict it accurately.

+1 to both of you, it's all about sustainability.

Those who were already there in 2013 (and 2011...) aren't waiting for a new Willy, they are expecting sustainable, reality-based growth.

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[JayJuanGee]

Maybe you are making fun, here?   But,I sense that the bitcoin space is expanding and there are various competing whales.. sure sometimes, there may be some coordinated success and signaling... yet I believe that the actors are fairly complex and diversified and sometimes work together and sometimes compete, and there are so many exchanges, too that can cause signaling and leading and following.

I'm keeping my eye on the exchanges ... and when China moves, the rest follow. The volumes seem to be "scared/affraid" in The West ... they always wait China to make the first step.

The West needs a market opening for BTC ... to have more confidence or determination to lead the global price of things!

And with China ... I don't really know if they are against each other in a competition. But I do know there is some kind of cartel... Imagine those miners doing more than they need... what do you think they will do with the surplus? They will try and increase the price to increase productivity! Its the only way to increase profits!!! By pumping the price!

You can say that you are keeping your eyes on the exchanges all that you want, but that does not make your assertion true.

Correlation and causation is not the same thing.   Regarding exchanges we have a bit of a symbiotic relationship, and some times one exchange or set of exchanges will push the price more than others, but it's a BIG ASS myth that China controls exchanges and/or mining merely because there exists a lot of volume there. 

We do not even need to arrive at a conclusion that some of China's volume is fake in order to understand that trade action in China does not completely (or even largely) control the price.  Also, volume is achieved in China too due to low or non-existent fees which inspires the use of bots and frequent trading on low price intervals.

Your point regarding miners driving the price, also, makes little to no sense and seems to be a further attempt at describing bitcoin as some narrow phenomenon pushed by a small group of folks and/or entities.  It also logically makes little sense.. Sure there is some incentives for miners to attempt to push up the prices, but at the same time, the bitcoin market is a lot more organic and larger than you make it out to be with a lot of players around the world.. developers, exchanges, hoarders, speculators and increased adoption, which also fuels demand.

[DeathAngel]

Price has risen a bit since this morning, would love to see $800 when fresh fiat hits the exchanges Monday morning. When do China wake up?

[JayJuanGee]

A pump followed by a bigger pump less than a couple of hours?

What is happening?

Whale warring each other?

Well when you're the only whale in the market, essentially dumping into your own bid walls, it's easy.

Nonsense.  


The one whale theory is total baloney, but you keep on with it for months and months and months...

do you really believe such nonsense?  Is there actually any evidence or logic for such an extraordinary claim?  Remember the saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... ?  Where is it?

The thing is ... that there is a "whale" ... but .. it is not a person!

It is an entity / company / group of people / communist party ... that have between 80.000BTC - 150.000BTC coins!

And they work 24/7 in 3-4 shifts maybe.

Do you imagine just dropping dumps then leaving the poker table? ... Someone must stay behind and level the plain, to keep things afloat! ... till the next time the "whale" comes to pump & dump!

This x 1000.  It may be a conspiracy theory to many, but I believe it is completely plausible, especially if such a whale group was formed in the early days of Bitcoin.  They could have accounts open on every exchange, and work together 24/7.  They could write a bunch of coordinated bots on every exchange that work together. Not to mention if they have way more funding to back them than what is currently in the exchange markets, then they will control each and every local market. They would be able to control the rise and timing of bitcoin fairly precisely.  And if they are connecting to powerful/wealthy people, then they will have insider trading knowledge/info many months or years ahead of the public, and will be able to time pumps/dumps on major news announcements.

And no, of course there's really no way to provide proof of such.  Just like there is no definitive proof that the Russian Mob is behind the U.S. Stock market (and every other major world market). So let's all just stick our heads back in the sand keep saying its the Chinese that are pulling all the strings and providing all the volume, 'cause that's what you all want to believe.  

You seem to be the one with your head in the sand and helping to distribute these kinds of extraordinary manipulation theories without proof.  Yeah, of course there is some manipulation going on in the bitcoin space because the market cap remains small, and prices are largely set by a subset of coins on exchanges.  Nonetheless, the demand for bitcoins is larger, more complicated and much more distributed and organic than you seem to be attempting to make out with your overly conspiratorial speculations about what folks are doing.

If there were really rich people manipulating bitcoin, they would have a lot of incentives to keep the price below $500, but they kind of lost control over that in the past few weeks, to the extent that some of those folks were attempting to contain bitcoin.  Once price got passed $500, it has become very difficult to contain bitcoin and to get the prices to go back down.. Sure in the end there are manipulation successes, and sure they may be able to get bitcoin's price to crash.. but at the moment there is a lot of organic upwards price pressures that is making it tough, even for manipulators, to contain this bitcoin beast.

[JayJuanGee]

A pump followed by a bigger pump less than a couple of hours?

What is happening?

Whale warring each other?

Well when you're the only whale in the market, essentially dumping into your own bid walls, it's easy.

Nonsense.  


The one whale theory is total baloney, but you keep on with it for months and months and months...

do you really believe such nonsense?  Is there actually any evidence or logic for such an extraordinary claim?  Remember the saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... ?  Where is it?

The thing is ... that there is a "whale" ... but .. it is not a person!

It is an entity / company / group of people / communist party ... that have between 80.000BTC - 150.000BTC coins!

And they work 24/7 in 3-4 shifts maybe.

Do you imagine just dropping dumps then leaving the poker table? ... Someone must stay behind and level the plain, to keep things afloat! ... till the next time the "whale" comes to pump & dump!

This x 1000.  It may be a conspiracy theory to many, but I believe it is completely plausible, especially if such a whale group was formed in the early days of Bitcoin.  They could have accounts open on every exchange, and work together 24/7.  They could write a bunch of coordinated bots on every exchange that work together. Not to mention if they have way more funding to back them than what is currently in the exchange markets, then they will control each and every local market. They would be able to control the rise and timing of bitcoin fairly precisely.  And if they are connecting to powerful/wealthy people, then they will have insider trading knowledge/info many months or years ahead of the public, and will be able to time pumps/dumps on major news announcements.

And no, of course there's really no way to provide proof of such.  Just like there is no definitive proof that the Russian Mob is behind the U.S. Stock market (and every other major world market). So let's all just stick our heads back in the sand keep saying its the Chinese that are pulling all the strings and providing all the volume, 'cause that's what you all want to believe.  

Well, apart from all of the conspiracy theories, i think the real reason is much simpler and doesn't involve aliens or Russian mob.
Some history, back in the day Finex was new and didn't have much volume especially for leverage products that they offered. Stamp was #1 by volume so they made some arrangements with them and pretty much were shadowing stamp. That provided Finex much needed liquidity. As Finex grew, on big volumes we often saw Finex price decouple from Stamp price (that was when Finex ran out of money on Stamp). At certain point Finex outgrew Stamp, they completely decoupled and Finex took the lead.

What we're seeing here (i believe) is well... CHINA CHINA CHINA_x100. Their fake volume was great but now there's a genuine bullish run there, and they need coins from somewhere. It would only make sense to make some arrangements  with Finex who's in Hong Kong (like Finex did with Stamp in their day) for liquidity. West is bearish so there's little to no bid support, but China is on a bullish train so they don't care and just keep charging ahead. That's why we don't see much bid support on Finex (arbs don't like risk exposure to catch falling knifes), yet we see those BTC1k market buys, west gets panicy from no/thin bid support and starts dumping. So we get heavy ask side, thin bid side, and a lot of volume.

TL;DR as long as whoboi is above Finex by around $10 or 1.5% we're riding the Chinese made rocket.

You still seem to be attempting to overly simplify and to deny organic growth and also the fact that bitcoin prices have been considerably depressed for almost 2 years.  Sure some of the matters that you describe factually happened and are happening, but they do not exactly explain the price or suggest that price is largely being influenced by the actions of chinese people.

[savetherainforest]

https://www.mixcloud.com/bitcoinuncensored/isabella-kaminska-interview-on-bitcoin-blockchain-and-the-nature-of-money/

She's charming and brilliant. And relevant!

*Note to moderators: Don't make me use Reddit

She seems one of those people that if problems appear with something... instead of trying to fix them, she just gives up and throws it away at the trash because she does not agree with it.

[glorywhole]

Those who were already there in 2013 (and 2011...) aren't waiting for a new Willy, they are expecting sustainable, reality-based growth.

Right on!

https://s31.postimg.org/7rb5p4317/Capture.gifhttps://s32.postimg.org/3o1succdh/Capture.gif

Natural, organic growth^TM

[JayJuanGee]

Those who were already there in 2013 (and 2011...) aren't waiting for a new Willy, they are expecting sustainable, reality-based growth.

Right on!



Natural, organic growth^TM

That's correct about natural and organic growth, even though your chart only shows a very short and recent period (the past couple of days).

Natural/organic growth is not captured in a weekend snapshot of one exchange (even though the pattern may be similar on other exchanges), so consider that if you are truly attempting to understand bitcoin and where we are at, you may also want to zoom out a little bit, and also consider larger contextual facts, including the fact that bitcoin's price has been suppressed for about 2 years while development and investment in the bitcoin space and adoption continued.

It's called a networking effect, and there may be some fits and starts regarding price discovery and difficulties (especially over shorter periods of time) accepting that BTC prices are real likely and inclined to going up in the current times.. but the upwards price momentum and upward price pressures remain upwardly based largely on ongoing bitcoin growth.

[glorywhole]

Those who were already there in 2013 (and 2011...) aren't waiting for a new Willy, they are expecting sustainable, reality-based growth.

Right on!

https://s31.postimg.org/7rb5p4317/Capture.gifhttps://s32.postimg.org/3o1succdh/Capture.gif

Natural, organic growth^TM

That's correct about natural and organic growth, even though your chart only shows a very short and recent period (the past couple of days).

First one shows the past three years, second a few hours. You can't read charts, there's your problem right there

[Torque]

Oh oh.... here we go again.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/744528738113642499

Prepare for liftoff! 

[European Central Bank]

Hey, looks like we're getting another 2013 then. I'll look forward to the chinese government destroying the exchanges once and for all this time.

[dumbfbrankings]

Oh oh.... here we go again.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/744528738113642499

Prepare for liftoff! 

Hope everyJuan got their bids filled before these wide-eyed rubes shrewd value investors arrive on the order books.

$800 2nite?

[yui]

Haha,yes. Important news station 

[rjclarke2000]

Oh oh.... here we go again.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/744528738113642499

Prepare for liftoff! 

If this was earlier today shouldn't we have seen some action already?


Tell me to shut the f**k up if I am talking rubbish.

[yui]

now the other station steal this BTC news reporting idea

[pennywise]

Well if bitcoin gained some new investors, they will need some time (days) to get their renmimbis to the exchanges. So yeah, we can probably expect some action in the following days.

[European Central Bank]

Well if bitcoin gained some new investors, they will need some time (days) to get their renmimbis to the exchanges. So yeah, we can probably expect some action in the following days.

Not in China I believe. Those guys can deposit super fast. In the west chances are you might be wiring to another country. If you're in america then you're stuck with their prehistoric waiting times for stuff to clear.

[rjclarke2000]

Only roughly 15.6M coins available. Come get them while they are hot. You aren't having mine just yet Mr China man.

[JayJuanGee]

Those who were already there in 2013 (and 2011...) aren't waiting for a new Willy, they are expecting sustainable, reality-based growth.

Right on!



Natural, organic growth^TM

That's correct about natural and organic growth, even though your chart only shows a very short and recent period (the past couple of days).

First one shows the past three years, second a few hours. You can't read charts, there's your problem right there

So what?  my point still stands regarding your lacking in analytical substance based on a broader context, and that shows in part by your a broad view and a narrow view and then missing essential points, including editing out and failing and refusing to respond to the remainder of my comment.  In other words, your charts do not support your nonsensical attempts at claims.

[JayJuanGee]

Oh oh.... here we go again.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/744528738113642499

Prepare for liftoff!  

Hope everyJuan got their bids filled before these wide-eyed rubes shrewd value investors arrive on the order books.

$800 2nite?

Well, thanks for asking, dumbfbrankings.  I was able to sell several coins on the rise from around $670 to $778, and then to pick up several coins with those proceeds on the two price drops that brought us into the lower $700s and the $720s...

So, yeah, currently feeling pretty decently stocked up at the moment for another potential upwards boost, but as we all likely know, nothing is guaranteed in bitcoinlandia.  

I recall that there was a similar feeling of price stickiness in the $400s with several price drops in those territories and uncertainties regarding whether price would break through the $470s, and when prices finally broke upwards, it paid off to be stocked up on lillie friends, aka bitcoins.  

We are still fairly newly arrived to the $700s (been here less than a week), so hopefully, this appearance of mid $700s stickiness is not as difficult to overcome in the coming weeks, or even in the coming day as you seem to be suggesting in your trolling kind of sarcastic manner.