Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BlackSpidy]

Reversal or fakeout?  

No way to tell, really. I've got a small margin short (base price $760) that I have small sell orders for, going all the way up to $900. I think we're over-bought, we can test the ATH, but not punch through it (for long?). Ether way, the top of this rally is soon approaching. The next test of support might go into even the low $600s, in the coming two months. Good luck, everyone.

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[JayJuanGee]

$800 2nite?

Well, thanks for asking, dumbfbrankings.  I was able to sell several coins on the rise from around $670 to $778...

That's a tidy profit of several hundred dollars. Nice work JJG, keep it up, I'm proud of you. 

Well, my perspective is a bit different from that. 

We're all entitled to our own opinions, however wacky. It is how the IRS views it, tho.

Since when did you become a bitcoin tax consultant?    Bitcoin taxes vary based on jurisdiction, and there is some interpretation variance, too.

O.k.  Assuming the gain is in the united states, when is the investor going to realize a gain in terms of bitcoin as a capital gains? 

Not based on merely the fact that the trader is making trading profits, but instead based on when the trader actually cash out the gain and the gain is "realized."   

There may be some ambiguity also when the bitcoin trading is taking place across multiple exchanges, and thereby how records are kept and when a person actually cashes out versus moving money from one exchange to another.  These are not necessarily clear answers, but it still will be good for traders to have some perspective the way s/he is treating  and possibly reporting such activities, to the extent that they may be reportable. 

Furthermore, if we are talking completely about trading and profits on one exchange, and making bitcoin profits there, that profit is pretty clearly not "realized" under the US tax laws if the trader is not removing those funds in and out of the one exchange, so in the case of keeping funds on one exchange and not removing them, there is no taxable event to talk about, and I would not be planning to report any of that.. If others chose to report, then they are likely causing more work on themselves than necessary to report gains or losses that have not been "realized"...

Anyhow, you seem to be muddying the waters when you are now raising questions regarding tax implications, when that was not even part of any of the earlier points being raised by either you or me...  Earlier your point appeared to be to attempt to belittle some earnings taking place through trades, and then now, your point seems to distract by attempting to raise some kind of inference of legal/tax questions, which is merely a new topic.

[matt4054]

With almost 14M views, this topic will soon have more views than the number of BTC in circulation

[dumbfbrankings]

$800 2nite?

Well, thanks for asking, dumbfbrankings.  I was able to sell several coins on the rise from around $670 to $778...

That's a tidy profit of several hundred dollars. Nice work JJG, keep it up, I'm proud of you. 

Well, my perspective is a bit different from that. 

We're all entitled to our own opinions, however wacky. It is how the IRS views it, tho.

Since when did you become a bitcoin tax consultant?    Bitcoin taxes vary based on jurisdiction, and there is some interpretation variance, too.

O.k.  Assuming the gain is in the united states, when is the investor going to realize a gain in terms of bitcoin as a capital gains? 

Not based on merely the fact that the trader is making trading profits, but instead based on when the trader actually cash out the gain and the gain is "realized."   

There may be some ambiguity also when the bitcoin trading is taking place across multiple exchanges, and thereby how records are kept and when a person actually cashes out versus moving money from one exchange to another.  These are not necessarily clear answers, but it still will be good for traders to have some perspective the way s/he is treating  and possibly reporting such activities, to the extent that they may be reportable. 

Furthermore, if we are talking completely about trading and profits on one exchange, and making bitcoin profits there, that profit is pretty clearly not "realized" under the US tax laws if the trader is not removing those funds in and out of the one exchange, so in the case of keeping funds on one exchange and not removing them, there is no taxable event to talk about, and I would not be planning to report any of that.. If others chose to report, then they are likely causing more work on themselves than necessary to report gains or losses that have not been "realized"...

Anyhow, you seem to be muddying the waters when you are now raising questions regarding tax implications, when that was not even part of any of the earlier points being raised by either you or me...  Earlier your point appeared to be to attempt to belittle some earnings taking place through trades, and then now, your point seems to distract by attempting to raise some kind of inference of legal/tax questions, which is merely a new topic.

I'm not. Yes, treatment varies by jurisdiction. Assuming US tax law... I'm pretty sure everything you subsequently stated is bollocks, and you should be ashamed for possibly misleading unwitting readers. That's like saying my stock trades are only counted as gains/losses when I wire money out/in of/to my brokerage account.

You can choose to pay taxes or avoid them, that's a decision everyone has to weigh individually.

*Not tax professional. Consult your own counsel. Information provided without warranty or guarantee.*

[JayJuanGee]

$800 2nite?

Well, thanks for asking, dumbfbrankings.  I was able to sell several coins on the rise from around $670 to $778...

That's a tidy profit of several hundred dollars. Nice work JJG, keep it up, I'm proud of you. 

Well, my perspective is a bit different from that. 

We're all entitled to our own opinions, however wacky. It is how the IRS views it, tho.

Since when did you become a bitcoin tax consultant?    Bitcoin taxes vary based on jurisdiction, and there is some interpretation variance, too.

O.k.  Assuming the gain is in the united states, when is the investor going to realize a gain in terms of bitcoin as a capital gains? 

Not based on merely the fact that the trader is making trading profits, but instead based on when the trader actually cash out the gain and the gain is "realized."   

There may be some ambiguity also when the bitcoin trading is taking place across multiple exchanges, and thereby how records are kept and when a person actually cashes out versus moving money from one exchange to another.  These are not necessarily clear answers, but it still will be good for traders to have some perspective the way s/he is treating  and possibly reporting such activities, to the extent that they may be reportable. 

Furthermore, if we are talking completely about trading and profits on one exchange, and making bitcoin profits there, that profit is pretty clearly not "realized" under the US tax laws if the trader is not removing those funds in and out of the one exchange, so in the case of keeping funds on one exchange and not removing them, there is no taxable event to talk about, and I would not be planning to report any of that.. If others chose to report, then they are likely causing more work on themselves than necessary to report gains or losses that have not been "realized"...

Anyhow, you seem to be muddying the waters when you are now raising questions regarding tax implications, when that was not even part of any of the earlier points being raised by either you or me...  Earlier your point appeared to be to attempt to belittle some earnings taking place through trades, and then now, your point seems to distract by attempting to raise some kind of inference of legal/tax questions, which is merely a new topic.

I'm not. Yes, treatment varies by jurisdiction. Assuming US tax law... I'm pretty sure everything you subsequently stated is bollocks, and you should be ashamed for possibly misleading unwitting readers. That's like saying my stock trades are only counted as gains/losses when I wire money out/in of/to my brokerage account.

You can choose to pay taxes or avoid them, that's a decision everyone has to weigh individually.

*Not tax professional. Consult your own counsel. Information provided without warranty or guarantee.*

I'm not sure how you are suggesting that I am wrong about something, because in your subsequent post, aren't you saying the same thing as me, more or less?

[JimboToronto]

I don't know about the USA but here in Canada, profits from Bitcoin trading are considered capital gains, realized at the time of sale. If you mine them, they're taxable as income at the time of sale.

If you don't sell them, I guess you're on the honor system. Earnings received in barter are taxable, but just try to prove it when you spend them for goods or services..

[podyx]

Ascending triangle.

Bulls still in control.

[JimboToronto]

Ascending triangle.

Bulls still in control.

Was there any doubt?

[dumbfbrankings]

I don't know about the USA but here in Canada, profits from Bitcoin trading are considered capital gains, realized at the time of sale. If you mine them, they're taxable as income at the time of sale.

My understanding of the US treatment:

Capital gains/losses are calculated at the time of sale from the original purchase price, using FIFO or LIFO, as long as consistent. Mined coins are counted as income at the time and value of when they were mined, and, at that point, become a cost basis for capital gains.

JJG is confused about when the gains are realized... it's at the sale of the asset, not a balance of the USD you've sent/received to/from the exchange or brokerage.

[jt byte]

Bitcoin Block Reward Halving Countdown:
Only 20 more days!

Reward drop ETA: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:11:43 GMT

Time is coming to holt on your bitcoins boys.
Not too sure if I want to sell now with only less than 3 week to go till the price goes BoOm! 

[JayJuanGee]

I don't know about the USA but here in Canada, profits from Bitcoin trading are considered capital gains, realized at the time of sale. If you mine them, they're taxable as income at the time of sale.

My understanding of the US treatment:

Capital gains/losses are calculated at the time of sale from the original purchase price, using FIFO or LIFO, as long as consistent. Mined coins are counted as income at the time and value of when they were mined, and, at that point, become a cost basis for capital gains.

JJG is confused about when the gains are realized... it's at the sale of the asset, not a balance of the USD you've sent/received to/from the exchange or brokerage.

Whether on purpose or not, you are misquoting me, goofball - I mean dumbfbrankings - I mean Lambie. 

[marcus_of_augustus]

Looks like the ETH spectacular (but entirely predictable) centralised clustfeck implosion is dragging on bitcoin, temporarily, which may not be bad thing to pace the current expansion that was in danger of getting ahead of itself. Looks like some large players may be trying to rotate out of ETH (too much risk) and into the one true base coin so the train stop at 760 is being delayed for them ... but the march to $960 and above is unstoppable as it will be the new floor for the miners after July 10 and they will enforce that as soon and as much as they are able.

[dumbfbrankings]

I don't know about the USA but here in Canada, profits from Bitcoin trading are considered capital gains, realized at the time of sale. If you mine them, they're taxable as income at the time of sale.

My understanding of the US treatment:

Capital gains/losses are calculated at the time of sale from the original purchase price, using FIFO or LIFO, as long as consistent. Mined coins are counted as income at the time and value of when they were mined, and, at that point, become a cost basis for capital gains.

JJG is confused about when the gains are realized... it's at the sale of the asset, not a balance of the USD you've sent/received to/from the exchange or brokerage.

Whether on purpose or not, you are misquoting me, goofball - I mean dumbfbrankings - I mean Lambie.  

Actually, I'm confident I quoted your error explicitly, here:

Not based on merely the fact that the trader is making trading profits, but instead based on when the trader actually cash out the gain and the gain is "realized."  

Also... not lambie, you should be able to tell the difference by now.

[JayJuanGee]

I don't know about the USA but here in Canada, profits from Bitcoin trading are considered capital gains, realized at the time of sale. If you mine them, they're taxable as income at the time of sale.

My understanding of the US treatment:

Capital gains/losses are calculated at the time of sale from the original purchase price, using FIFO or LIFO, as long as consistent. Mined coins are counted as income at the time and value of when they were mined, and, at that point, become a cost basis for capital gains.

JJG is confused about when the gains are realized... it's at the sale of the asset, not a balance of the USD you've sent/received to/from the exchange or brokerage.

Whether on purpose or not, you are misquoting me, goofball - I mean dumbfbrankings - I mean Lambie.  

Actually, I'm confident I quoted your error explicitly, here:

Not based on merely the fact that the trader is making trading profits, but instead based on when the trader actually cash out the gain and the gain is "realized."  

Also... not lambie, you should be able to tell the difference by now.

Your confidence is a big fucking WHATEVER... You know that "cashed out" in that context is meant to suggest the selling the asset, you dumb fuck... I am not saying when the dollars were sent to the exchange or received from the exchange.  

You are attempting to find ambiguity with my statement when it should be abundantly clear and get caught up in the weeds of nonsensical and irrelevant stream of consciousness for no good reason except to attempt to clutter this thread with riddles, and yeah, so it seems that you are on target in your contributing to the distracting goals of goofball trolls and corporate shills, such as yourself.


And regarding your point about Lambie, what difference does it make if you are lambie herself or some lambie imitator, either way you are still engaging in copy cat terrorism.   

[Holliday]

Go home Bitstamp, you're drunk.

[darlidada]

Looks like the ETH spectacular (but entirely predictable) centralised clustfeck implosion is dragging on bitcoin, temporarily, which may not be bad thing to pace the current expansion that was in danger of getting ahead of itself. Looks like some large players may be trying to rotate out of ETH (too much risk) and into the one true base coin so the train stop at 760 is being delayed for them ... but the march to $960 and above is unstoppable as it will be the new floor for the miners after July 10 and they will enforce that as soon and as much as they are able.

dont you think we will correct since today is auction tend and the marktets tended to do that?

[bitcrypto10101]

Is BTC decentralised ?

[Elwar]

Looks like the ETH spectacular (but entirely predictable) centralised clustfeck implosion is dragging on bitcoin, temporarily, which may not be bad thing to pace the current expansion that was in danger of getting ahead of itself. Looks like some large players may be trying to rotate out of ETH (too much risk) and into the one true base coin so the train stop at 760 is being delayed for them ... but the march to $960 and above is unstoppable as it will be the new floor for the miners after July 10 and they will enforce that as soon and as much as they are able.

dont you think we will correct since today is auction tend and the marktets tended to do that?

From past auctions, the price tends to go down shortly before the auction (people are selling bitcoins so they can buy at the auction).

If that was the sell off, we're looking good for a good climb at this point.

[darlidada]

Looks like the ETH spectacular (but entirely predictable) centralised clustfeck implosion is dragging on bitcoin, temporarily, which may not be bad thing to pace the current expansion that was in danger of getting ahead of itself. Looks like some large players may be trying to rotate out of ETH (too much risk) and into the one true base coin so the train stop at 760 is being delayed for them ... but the march to $960 and above is unstoppable as it will be the new floor for the miners after July 10 and they will enforce that as soon and as much as they are able.

dont you think we will correct since today is auction tend and the marktets tended to do that?

From past auctions, the price tends to go down shortly before the auction (people are selling bitcoins so they can buy at the auction).

If that was the sell off, we're looking good for a good climb at this point.

actually, its the opposite, the sell off happens after the auction. for instance, last auction happened on the 5th of november, we climbed very quickly from the 1 to the 5 (300 to 400) and then started the decline right back to 300

we'll see if this time the halving change things

[marcus_of_augustus]

From past auctions, the price tends to go down shortly before the auction (people are selling bitcoins so they can buy at the auction).

If that was the sell off, we're looking good for a good climb at this point.

actually, its the opposite, the sell off happens after the auction. for instance, last auction happened on the 5th of november, we climbed very quickly from the 1 to the 5 (300 to 400) and then started the decline right back to 300

last time it was already down hard the day before the auction (Nov. 4) ...