mellowyellow
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Activity: 112
Merit: 10
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January 22, 2014, 09:11:42 PM |
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I would also like to point out that I have a private key memorized. Nobody's worked out a way to hack human memory as far as I'm aware.  What about your family if the worst happens? Your wife / children / mother / husband / favourite charity or whatever can't retrieve btc by showing a death certificate and a will, they can with all other assets. I have made arrangements so that my family can retrieve mine if needed (nice bonus that it's tax free too). |
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KFR
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January 22, 2014, 09:14:18 PM |
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I would also like to point out that I have a private key memorized. Nobody's worked out a way to hack human memory as far as I'm aware. In order to use your bitcoins, at some point the key have to be entered into a computer... Yes that's true. So I'll be very careful should I ever need to use them. But it's much easier to be careful with this string of characters than it would be with the equivalent quantity of cash. As you pointed out earlier, bitcoins, like pretty much anything else known to man, can indeed be stolen. I dare say if someone put a gun to my head I'd start babbling private keys. But the point being made in the article - the one you claimed was about bitcoins being stolen - was that using bitcoins to purchase something from a merchant is massively more secure than using a credit card, which involves handing over the information required to authorise a transaction. As long as I keep my private key and the device upon which it is entered safe, then the transaction will be secure. No sensitive data passes across the network to the merchant. With credit cards everything needed to make a payment is entered into a stranger's hardware - and frequently they even duplicate this information in their own questionably secure databases. You must understand this surely? |
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lemonte
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January 22, 2014, 09:14:29 PM |
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KFR
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January 22, 2014, 09:18:53 PM |
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I would also like to point out that I have a private key memorized. Nobody's worked out a way to hack human memory as far as I'm aware. What about your family if the worst happens? Your wife / children / mother / husband / favourite charity or whatever can't retrieve btc by showing a death certificate and a will, they can with all other assets. I have made arrangements so that my family can retrieve mine if needed (nice bonus that it's tax free too). I didn't say I had all my coins held at the address corresponding to that key.  Paper wallets split into unrecognisable fragments stored in triplicate at multiple locations with clear instructions left with a few trusted family members takes care of that other stuff. |
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Davyd05
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January 22, 2014, 09:19:18 PM |
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KFR
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January 22, 2014, 09:20:32 PM |
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I would also like to point out that I have a private key memorized. Nobody's worked out a way to hack human memory as far as I'm aware. In order to use your bitcoins, at some point the key have to be entered into a computer... Only the signature needs to be input. This could be worked out on paper from the transaction and the private key. Good point - hadn't considered that.  |
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prof7bit
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January 22, 2014, 09:23:27 PM |
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Why did he not point out that bitcoins have other serious risks that credit card users will not expect? Fine to bring up the Target case, but should he not mention SheepMarketplace too?
In what way is SheepMarketplace a risk to the bitcoin user (or a risk to anybody at all except the users of SheepMarketplace itself)? |
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JorgeStolfi
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January 22, 2014, 09:29:58 PM |
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I guess maybe you already knew all this about what Bitcoin is, and what it can be,
I believe I know enough about the positive arguments, and in general I do not dispute them. Unfortunately there are negative or highly uncertain arguments and I have still to see good answers to them. "Selling" articles like Mark's generally avoid them. The risk of bitcoins being stolen (possibly en masse) by hackers is an example. Bitcoin is only one cryptocoin. Why should it be the one to survive? Non-cancellation may be good for merchants (especially dishonest ones) but is bad for customers. Governments can ban, restrict, or heavily tax cryptocoins if it suits them. What will prevent banks and Wall Street from taking control of Bitcoin? How could the value of a bitcoin be stabilized enough for merchants who thrive on 2% profit? And so on... |
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prof7bit
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January 22, 2014, 09:34:35 PM |
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But it does make sense considering the Google / Apple battle going on and Google's position.
And Google already has well tested and thoroughly peer reviewed Bitcoin wallet code for the Android Platform which they could integrate in any of their Apps while Apple still has absolutely nothing of that sort. |
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JorgeStolfi
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January 22, 2014, 09:37:21 PM |
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In what way is SheepMarketplace a risk to the bitcoin user (or a risk to anybody at all except the users of SheepMarketplace itself)?
For many years to come, people will have to depend on exchanges and bicoin-based processors to use bitcoin. SheepMarketplace is not a risk anymore, it is a fact. A risk is something that could happen; Sheepmarketplace showed the risk of dealing with any exchange. |
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macsga
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Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
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January 22, 2014, 09:39:05 PM |
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I predict a jump after the dump.  |
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KFR
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January 22, 2014, 09:43:07 PM |
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I believe I know enough about the positive arguments, and in general I do not dispute them. Sure ya do. The risk of bitcoins being stolen (possibly en masse) by hackers is an example. In this context, a bad one. See above. Governments can ban, restrict, or heavily tax cryptocoins if it suits them. Governments ban all sorts of things that persist in common public use. What will prevent banks and Wall Street from taking control of Bitcoin? Bitcoin. I thought you said you understood this stuff. How could the value of a bitcoin be stabilized enough for merchants who thrive on 2% profit? Take a look at a baby. How could that ever be stable enough to walk upright? And so on... No doubt.  |
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macsga
Legendary
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Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
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January 22, 2014, 09:46:11 PM |
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I predict a jump after the dump. Oh well... might be something like this instead:  |
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NewLiberty
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Activity: 1204
Merit: 1001
Gresham's Lawyer
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January 22, 2014, 09:46:20 PM
Last edit: January 22, 2014, 10:11:39 PM by NewLiberty |
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I guess maybe you already knew all this about what Bitcoin is, and what it can be,
I believe I know enough about the positive arguments, and in general I do not dispute them. Unfortunately there are negative or highly uncertain arguments and I have still to see good answers to them. "Selling" articles like Mark's generally avoid them. The risk of bitcoins being stolen (possibly en masse) by hackers is an example. Negligible compared to the risks of credit card fraud. Bitcoin is only one cryptocoin. Why should it be the one to survive?
Survival until when? Why only one? Its 75th in the M1 rank now. It may not survive, but is better suited to do so than half the world's currencies today. Non-cancellation may be good for merchants (especially dishonest ones) but is bad for customers.
Customers and Merchants share this interest. It is pricing determinant in aggregate. What is important here is the choice. Pay more with consumer protection or less without. Governments can ban, restrict, or heavily tax cryptocoins if it suits them.
They can also blow up the world many times over. What me worry? YOLO! What will prevent banks and Wall Street from taking control of Bitcoin?
You and me and that guy over there. How could the value of a bitcoin be stabilized enough for merchants who thrive on 2% profit?
It doubles their profit to 4% by instant conversion to cash, and more than that if they use Bitpay, and opt for the payroll elements which let them pay their workers with it. The business only accepts as much of the risk as they want to accept. There are more than a few of us eager to take that risk for them that are more comfortable with that position.
And so on...
These are all very good and valid points, and you may not like my answers, but they work for a growing percentage of folks. As they improve, so will that percentage. |
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NewLiberty
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Activity: 1204
Merit: 1001
Gresham's Lawyer
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January 22, 2014, 09:51:46 PM |
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I hope they hurry, my turn to buy Google Glass has come up. I'm not sure I want it, but if I do get it, I'd like to pay with bitcoin. |
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prof7bit
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January 22, 2014, 09:52:11 PM |
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Sheepmarketplace showed the risk of dealing with any exchange.
What has a small illegal marketplace for contraband to do with registered bitcoin exchanges and payment processors? You still did not answer my question why you classify stuff like sheepmarketplace as a risk for ordinary bitcoin users or why it would be relevant at all? |
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Ivanhoe
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January 22, 2014, 09:57:30 PM |
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Buy the rumour |
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xyzzy099
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Activity: 1056
Merit: 1024
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January 22, 2014, 10:01:00 PM |
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I believe I know enough about the positive arguments, and in general I do not dispute them.
Unfortunately there are negative or highly uncertain arguments and I have still to see good answers to them. "Selling" articles like Mark's generally avoid them.
The risk of bitcoins being stolen (possibly en masse) by hackers is an example.
An example of what? There is a risk of <INSERT NAME OF ANY CURRENCY HERE> being stolen en masse, in exactly the same way. This is not a problem unique to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is only one cryptocoin. Why should it be the one to survive?
Did you actually read the article? He discusses this at length, focusing on network effects primarily. Non-cancellation may be good for merchants (especially dishonest ones) but is bad for customers.
As is true of cash in any currency. Again, this is not unique to Bitcoin. Governments can ban, restrict, or heavily tax cryptocoins if it suits them.
That is a possibility. Some governments can do damn near anything. What will prevent banks and Wall Street from taking control of Bitcoin?
I will have to refer you to the original whitepaper here. Success is not yet proven, but so far it's looking pretty good, I think. How could the value of a bitcoin be stabilized enough for merchants who thrive on 2% profit?
Again, I have to wonder if you really read the article. It addresses stability concerns very well, and shows how many merchants with low-margins can seriously benefit by avoiding CC processing fees. And so on...
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virtualfaqs
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January 22, 2014, 10:02:03 PM |
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Buy to Mtgox $955? Because of Google? Come on now....  |
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