Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[crumbcake]

So that doesn't mean using anything else to pay is illegal, it simply means I cannot force you to pay in anything other than the medium defined by law as legal tender.   If you and I want to trade using seashells (which are anonymous, and can be traded anymously), that is not using legal tender but it most certainly is not prohibited by law.

Of course though if you declare seashells legal tender then you'd have a serious inflation problem due to their availability.  This would make it necessary to pump so much acidic industrial waste into the sea that they all dissolve.

It's more than that.  If all the fiat in country A bought one cow, and an agent within that country issued a new currency, the worth of which was claimed to be .2 cows, where does the extra .2 cows come from?

Edit:  unless the agent also creates an extra .2 cows, he's simply devaluing the $$$ -- $$$ no longer buys 1 cow, only .8

[1715019989]

1715019989

[crumbcake]

Bitcoin might be a currency but since it's only numbers in a computer and not a physical object can it even be said to exist?  Anyway, surely it wouldn't be a crime for someone in the US to pay someone else in Euros or Stirling if they were both happy about it.  If the US government start using a clause like that then it's obviously only because they're miffed about not getting to tax it, but they'd probably use some BS excuse like counter-terrorism, protecting kids, etc like they always do for things they don't like.

See these are all the questions no one really has answers to.  There is all this grey area because of the internet.  But if the government is not getting it's cut, they are not going to let that ride.  Crypto certainly has it's challenges ahead.  This online tax bill in congress is alot bigger than I think some people understand.  The USG is looking to remove that grey area.  I'm not saying any of this is right or fair...I'm just saying it is what it is.

There's no "gray area" if you consider fiat currency to be a sound system.  Bitcoin dilutes the fiat economy, without introducing any value.  Just like printing more money.  If you are holding $$$, it's certainly not in your benefit for Bitcoin to succeed.  

I'm not talking personal ideology, I'm talking grey area from a legal standpoint.  The USG is coming for their taxes.  You can bet with 100% certainty this will be the case.  But the USG will want to have solid legal footing to do so.  Because of the internet, it requiring updated rules, regulations and policies to deal with it. 

I'm not talking ideology either -- simply the mechanics of trading

[Coinseeker]

Bitcoin might be a currency but since it's only numbers in a computer and not a physical object can it even be said to exist?  Anyway, surely it wouldn't be a crime for someone in the US to pay someone else in Euros or Stirling if they were both happy about it.  If the US government start using a clause like that then it's obviously only because they're miffed about not getting to tax it, but they'd probably use some BS excuse like counter-terrorism, protecting kids, etc like they always do for things they don't like.

See these are all the questions no one really has answers to.  There is all this grey area because of the internet.  But if the government is not getting it's cut, they are not going to let that ride.  Crypto certainly has it's challenges ahead.  This online tax bill in congress is alot bigger than I think some people understand.  The USG is looking to remove that grey area.  I'm not saying any of this is right or fair...I'm just saying it is what it is.

There's no "gray area" if you consider fiat currency to be a sound system.  Bitcoin dilutes the fiat economy, without introducing any value.  Just like printing more money.  If you are holding $$$, it's certainly not in your benefit for Bitcoin to succeed.  

I'm not talking personal ideology, I'm talking grey area from a legal standpoint.  The USG is coming for their taxes.  You can bet with 100% certainty this will be the case.  But the USG will want to have solid legal footing to do so.  Because of the internet, it requiring updated rules, regulations and policies to deal with it.  

I'm not talking ideology either -- simply the mechanics of trading

My apologies.  This forum has obviously made me hypersensitive.  

[crumbcake]

Bitcoin might be a currency but since it's only numbers in a computer and not a physical object can it even be said to exist?  Anyway, surely it wouldn't be a crime for someone in the US to pay someone else in Euros or Stirling if they were both happy about it.  If the US government start using a clause like that then it's obviously only because they're miffed about not getting to tax it, but they'd probably use some BS excuse like counter-terrorism, protecting kids, etc like they always do for things they don't like.

See these are all the questions no one really has answers to.  There is all this grey area because of the internet.  But if the government is not getting it's cut, they are not going to let that ride.  Crypto certainly has it's challenges ahead.  This online tax bill in congress is alot bigger than I think some people understand.  The USG is looking to remove that grey area.  I'm not saying any of this is right or fair...I'm just saying it is what it is.

There's no "gray area" if you consider fiat currency to be a sound system.  Bitcoin dilutes the fiat economy, without introducing any value.  Just like printing more money.  If you are holding $$$, it's certainly not in your benefit for Bitcoin to succeed.  

I'm not talking personal ideology, I'm talking grey area from a legal standpoint.  The USG is coming for their taxes.  You can bet with 100% certainty this will be the case.  But the USG will want to have solid legal footing to do so.  Because of the internet, it requiring updated rules, regulations and policies to deal with it.  

I'm not talking ideology either -- simply the mechanics of trading

My apologies.  This forum has obviously made me hypersensitive.  

No worries, i leave politics outside

[crumbcake]

Is there a TL;DR on THE news in the last 8 hrs?

[Missionary]

Is there a TL;DR on THE news in the last 8 hrs?

Some centralized service in the US froze some funds. Bitcoins unaffected.

[thoughtfan]

Is there a TL;DR on THE news in the last 8 hrs?

I don't know.  I did my usual of going back a page or two from this thread and scrolling through to see if there's anything I should know about only to find this:

...where as [sic] Bitcoin is in violation of the laws of nearly every country.

...followed by post after post of people banging their heads against a brick wall trying to explain to Coinseeker that virtually all of the premises behind his ludicrous statement are untrue.  I think he's sort-of got most of it by now but it would help if people actually made a little effort (Google is your friend) to understand what they're talking about before just coming out with baseless rubbish.

I'll try Reddit!

[ChartBuddy]

[Coinseeker]

Is there a TL;DR on THE news in the last 8 hrs?

Same story running.  No new info released.  It's still only 8am here, 5am on the west coast.  

[Coinseeker]

...where as [sic] Bitcoin is in violation of the laws of nearly every country.


...followed by post after post of people banging their heads against a brick wall trying to explain to Coinseeker that virtually all of the premises behind his ludicrous statement are untrue.  I think he's sort-of got most of it by now but it would help if people actually made a little effort (Google is your friend) to understand what they're talking about before just coming out with baseless rubbish.

I'll try Reddit!

Awww....does it bother you that I don't blindly follow internet rhetoric.  At least I have the intelligence to be open to facts as they are presented, where most on this site are so ideologically dug in, that the only "facts" they see are the ones they have created in their own minds.

Starting with the continuing delusion that Bitcoin is immune to governmental intervention. 

[fitty]

Stop feeling the troll. Coinseeker is a retard. He's hoping the market goes down so he can buy back in. He's fourkey2001 2.0. Just click ignore, stop quoting him if you do reply, and move on. Pointing out he's wrong just makes he move onto some new FUD.

[crumbcake]

Is there a TL;DR on THE news in the last 8 hrs?

Same story running.  No new info released.  It's still only 8am here, 5am on the west coast.  

Went to bed after reading the news, expected the chart to look like *anything but what it is right now*.  I'm beginning to suspect this market reasoning goes like this:

• (1) News and market analysis tells me the will be X
• (2) TA tells me the price will be Y
• (3) !(X or Y)
• Bitcoin has proven not to be tractable by (1) or (2), thus i will bet on (3)

[muyuu]

I'm bullish. Trollish post count usually spikes just before the valuation does.

[Coinseeker]

Stop feeling the troll. Coinseeker is a retard. He's hoping the market goes down so he can buy back in. He's fourkey2001 2.0. Just click ignore, stop quoting him if you do reply, and move on. Pointing out he's wrong just makes he move onto some new FUD.

And here comes the name calling.  Ah...yes.  The height of supreme intelligence.    Not sure how wanting the price to drop makes me a bad person and certainly warrants being called names.  I guess you'd prefer there was a Bull section and a Bear section so you wouldn't have to read any posts contrary to your beliefs and opinions?  Segregationist?  

[MickeyT2008]

Maybe something will happen in the market soon, then we'll all be too busy with that to spend time insulting each other

[Coinseeker]

Maybe something will happen in the market soon, then we'll all be too busy with that to spend time insulting each other

Yeah, like a drop to $20.   

[MickeyT2008]

Maybe something will happen in the market soon, then we'll all be too busy with that to spend time insulting each other

Yeah, like a drop to $20.   

That would be handy, so long as it comes back up afterwards, and also if for a change it doesn't happen whilst I'm out picking up my daughter from school.  I'm really getting to hate that school.

[BitcoinAshley]

Ok, Americans are awake. Here's what they're thinking?

"Hmm, looks like DHS froze Gox's american arm so no Dwolla."

"Hmm, this isn't really bad news since there's still a million ways to get money in/out of a variety of exchanges, and the liquidity argument is a chicken/egg problem. If I need to get money out of Gox I'll just send the BTC to US-based CampBX and have them send me a money order or ACH transfer. Or I'll just sell the bitcoins OTC to my pal Joey; I heard he wants some."

"Hmm, looks like a bunch of idiots panic-sold last night on what was just another case of TPTB fucking with bitcoin exchanges. What are they trying to do, let the terrorists win or something? It's not like government regulation is effective at successfully reducing demand, especially with distributed systems. Man these folks are tools."

"Oh, looks like price rebounded partway so I can just pretend like nothing happened; except that something did: Bitcoin proved itself to be more resilient to classic 'TPBT Fucking with Exchange' attacks."

SCORE
Bitcoin: +1
DHS: 0

 

[crumbcake]

Stop feeling the troll. Coinseeker is a retard. He's hoping the market goes down so he can buy back in. He's fourkey2001 2.0. Just click ignore, stop quoting him if you do reply, and move on. Pointing out he's wrong just makes he move onto some new FUD.

And here comes the name calling.  Ah...yes.  The height of supreme intelligence.    Not sure how wanting the price to drop makes me a bad person and certainly warrants being called names.  I guess you'd prefer there was a Bull section and a Bear section so you wouldn't have to read any posts contrary to your beliefs and opinions?  Segregationist?  

You should tread softly, Coinseeker.  Arguing with unalloyed Bulls or Bears is like arguing with freshly-converted religious zealots.  If your opinion differs, it's simply data noise to be squelched.  If you introduce logic to your arguments, your arguments become malicious noise.  

[dexX7]

Dwolla is not illegal, where as Bitcoin is in violation of the laws of nearly every country.

Just because you can avoid taxiation with Bitcoin doesn't imply BTC is illegal. It's like saying: because you can kill someone with a screwdriver, a screwdriver is illegal.

Anyway. Calm down everybody. Our goal is maximizing our profit and not fighting over words.