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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21577452 times)
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gizmoh
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May 15, 2013, 05:34:49 PM
 #8421

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.
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May 15, 2013, 05:39:16 PM
 #8422

MtGox US LLC may have dropped the ball with their Dwolla account linked to their US company acting as a US to BTC gateway and not being registered with FinCEN.

Yes, it's looking like that is the extent of it, which is a relief. Failure to register their US subsidiary as a Money Service Business is completely negligent, but at least this doesn't seem to involve an actual money laundering charge.

The subsidiary, Mutum Sigillum LLC, doesn't appear to be registered on the FinCen site: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html
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May 15, 2013, 05:45:04 PM
 #8423

Yeah, this is just another case of incompetence (surprise, surprise) from Mtgox. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ee0bc/feds_reveal_the_search_warrant_used_to_seize_mt/

If you read the warrant, you can see that actually they are saying quite clearly that they treat bitcoins as currency and that as long as when you are operating in the US, you follow the rules, you are fine.



So, bears, it appears your option left is to buy back - probably at a loss.

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May 15, 2013, 05:45:21 PM
 #8424

MtGox US LLC may have dropped the ball with their Dwolla account linked to their US company acting as a US to BTC gateway and not being registered with FinCEN.

Yes, it's looking like that is the extent of it, which is a relief. Failure to register their US subsidiary as a Money Service Business is completely negligent, but at least this doesn't seem to involve an actual money laundering charge.

The subsidiary, Mutum Sigillum LLC, doesn't appear to be registered on the FinCen site: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

Mutum Sigilum looks like it was set up for a completely different business, and was just conveniently co-opted when the online exchange business took off. Gox grew fairly organically from nothing, after all.
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May 15, 2013, 05:45:52 PM
 #8425

We do have a solution, it's called Ripple.  Ripple will legitimize the BTC but not before we see double digits again.

BTC needs Ripple to achieve legitimacy? Did you read that on a fortune cookie?
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May 15, 2013, 05:47:08 PM
 #8426

After reading the seizure warrent, I'd say: not a huge deal. They target US based money supply. Even the seized banking account at Wells Fargo was only filled with Dwolla cash, which was sent to Japan. It seems Dwolla was the only critical part. As (hopefully) the other funding options (i.e. wire transfer) aren't linked to US accounts, it should be fine.

Lesson learned today: if you want to do business in the US, you have to do proper US paperwork. And tbh this isn't something unexpected.

Any accounts that wire money to Americans are at risk. Generally, it goes offshore bank --> intermediary (US) bank --> customer bank. That's why we get MT Gox wires from Chase NY, etc. Lots of online gambling money gets nabbed by the feds this way. In reality, they can seize offshore accounts where they have existing bank treaties, when there is "cause".

IMO, don't assume this is the end of this. Some thoughts on the subject: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200228.msg2114965#msg2114965

Trying to remain positive here, though.
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May 15, 2013, 05:47:40 PM
 #8427

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

Isn't Mark attending bitcoin2013 ? It's located in the US, so that would be a good time to arrest him wouldn't it? Not that Japan wouldn't extradite him. But this sounds like a good opportunity to bring him to "justice" quickly.

I really really hope Mark never visits the US. But who knows.
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May 15, 2013, 05:49:32 PM
 #8428

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

Isn't Mark attending bitcoin2013 ? It's located in the US, so that would be a good time to arrest him wouldn't it? Not that Japan wouldn't extradite him. But this sounds like a good opportunity to bring him to "justice" quickly.

Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.
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May 15, 2013, 05:50:41 PM
 #8429

Mutum Sigilum looks like it was set up for a completely different business, and was just conveniently co-opted when the online exchange business took off. Gox grew fairly organically from nothing, after all.

Yes, I see that too. Mutum Sigilium was created in Delaware on 05/09/2008. Still, after those FinCen regulations came out last month, there's really no excuse for such an oversight on Gox's part.
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May 15, 2013, 05:50:58 PM
 #8430

MtGox 502 Bad Gateway ? Shocked
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May 15, 2013, 05:51:18 PM
 #8431

So, bears, it appears your option left is to buy back - probably at a loss.

Dunno, we'll see.



Wouldn't be buying back at a loss, though.
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May 15, 2013, 05:51:49 PM
 #8432

It is not improbable that a separate charge is lodged against Mark Karpeles and be extradited,  being single owner of Mutum Sigillum LLC, based in Delaware.

Isn't Mark attending bitcoin2013 ? It's located in the US, so that would be a good time to arrest him wouldn't it? Not that Japan wouldn't extradite him. But this sounds like a good opportunity to bring him to "justice" quickly.

Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.
US doesn't have a working justice system, very few who is in prison there deserves it.
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May 15, 2013, 05:52:34 PM
 #8433

Gox www lagging hard/API unresponsive/broken for anyone else?
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May 15, 2013, 05:56:10 PM
 #8434

Mutum Sigilum looks like it was set up for a completely different business, and was just conveniently co-opted when the online exchange business took off. Gox grew fairly organically from nothing, after all.

Yes, I see that too. Mutum Sigilium was created in Delaware on 05/09/2008. Still, after those FinCen regulations came out last month, there's really no excuse for such an oversight on Gox's part.


No excuse? It's only been a month, and these things take time and can be very onerous.

Gox has had it hard lately -- Repeated DDOS, unfriendly business "partners" suing them for not giving up their customers, and now this...

I really hope the last two points (or indeed all of them) aren't related. That would be more than disappointing.

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May 15, 2013, 05:56:50 PM
 #8435

Gox www lagging hard/API unresponsive/broken for anyone else?

MtGox appears to be down.

Again.
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May 15, 2013, 05:57:28 PM
 #8436

Gox www lagging hard/API unresponsive/broken for anyone else?

MtGox appears to be down.

Again.

I just got in - and a new buying selling UI is there (dont get too excited)

edit: derp - nevermind, looks like the page just loaded in a fugly way - went to refresh it and got a 502.
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May 15, 2013, 05:58:11 PM
 #8437

Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.

Definitely not. Something like this should never lead to jail time. They are registered for their main business so it's obviously just an oversight. I bet a hefty fine is all that will be levied.

I do remember the heavy handed way the Feds dealt with the online poker companies though. Hopefully this isn't that kind of ridiculous overreaction.
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May 15, 2013, 06:00:48 PM
 #8438

Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.

Definitely not. Something like this should never lead to jail time. They are registered for their main business so it's obviously just an oversight. I bet a hefty fine is all that will be levied.

I do remember the heavy handed way the Feds dealt with the online poker companies though. Hopefully this isn't that kind of ridiculous overreaction.

No one will go to jail. Big banks get caught laundering money for drug cartels and just get a fine. BOA gets caught screwing people out of their homes, they get a fine. The US Govt much prefers money then a trial.
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May 15, 2013, 06:02:06 PM
 #8439

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May 15, 2013, 06:02:18 PM
 #8440

Gox www lagging hard/API unresponsive/broken for anyone else?

MtGox appears to be down.

Again.

api seems to have problems .. .. not sure about the website.. i dont use it
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