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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26373758 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
ssmc2
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April 03, 2015, 06:34:54 PM

Back to the chalkboard with you, professor. Cheesy
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D05GTO
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April 03, 2015, 06:35:35 PM

You don't think holding the price down to get all the BTC they can isn't happening right now?  Interesting.  Fleecing the early adopters as much as possible.  How do you think all the trolls get funding to launch smear campaigns?   Just hold on and watch the fireworks when the dam is unleashed.   It will take awhile to shake out the weak hands.  

Brewins
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April 03, 2015, 06:41:31 PM

Why did the weekend pump started before the weekend?

Because of the easter stuff maybe, everyone buying BTC to spend on chocolate stores?
sporket
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April 03, 2015, 06:46:01 PM

...
If what you say is true then why has it not happened yet?

Because shit doesn't happen until it does--Aristotelian logic, my friend. Lrn it Smiley

@D05GTO:  I liek ur tinfoil hat.
shmadz
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April 03, 2015, 06:48:19 PM

Shorts up to 24541.

Hmm.

Swap interest rate on shorts up to 0.07% per day, long swap interest down to 0.094%



Wait a minute, you telling me I could loan out a couple hundred coins and be making .14 per day?

That's more than I make from mining! What's the catch? Where's the risk?

You'd have to trust leaving those coins on an exchange.

 Embarrassed You're right of course. I was thinking out loud trying to figure some kind of price on that risk, to calculate if it's worth it. I don't know how to figure that number mathematically but I can make an estimate anecdotally...

So if I consider this in the same way I consider buying pre order mining rigs, it's like an all or nothing bet. I consider the money gone, then I consider how long to make it back (if the bet pays off and the hardware actually gets shipped - or, in this case, the exchange doesn't run off with my coins)

If you could consistently get 0.1% it would 1000 days to double your money. In a mining deal, I would expect to double my money in the first year at minimum.

Conclusion? Fair price for loans is 0.3 % daily. Wink
sporket
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April 03, 2015, 06:58:08 PM

...In a mining deal, I would expect to double my money in the first year at minimum.
...

You mean double your Bitcoin in a year or less?  Talk about unreasonable expectations Cheesy
Protip: The 1849 gold rush?  All the money was made in 1848, if you disregard whores, thieves & d00ds selling shovels.
Party's over Sad
ChartBuddy
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April 03, 2015, 06:58:42 PM

Coin
Explanation
JorgeStolfi
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April 03, 2015, 07:07:14 PM

Even with Memristor technology it would take more than a small group to jam out the global hashpower.  There's billions in infrastructure and it would require trillions to topple.

As said before, the "small group" will be the top 4-6 miners, who already have enough power to overcome all the others.

That is a paradoxical thing about the bitcoin protocol: no matter how massive he mining network, there will always be a potential enemy with the all power needed to take control of it.  Just as, no matter how big of an army a country has, it will never be big enough to protect it from a military coup...

Edit: Lets also not forget that 51% is where it becomes possible, its still a hard thing to do and to pull off succesfully would likely require much more than that.

Yes, they would need to have somewhat more than that (say, 65%) for extra safety against "heroic miners" bringing up their uneconomical miners to fight them.  The cartel would also have to divide their resources between jamming the old chain and mining the new one, constantly adjusting the split so as to retain a majority in both.

However, once the "attack" is announced, many "weak soul" miners would surely switch, followed by the "semi-starving" miners who cannot afford the blockade; so the cartel's position will become more and more comfortable as the "attack" progresses.  Indeed, if the cartel plays the PR well, there may not be any disruption: most everybody would upgrade before the deadline. 

I thought the 51% attack was related to transactions. To change the halving you would have to change the bitcoin client. Those "bad miners" would be mining an alt.

Yes, it would be an altcoin that starts off with the state and history of the bitcoin blockchain, and uses the same keys so that all bitcoin users are automatically users of that chain also.

Anyone can create such an altcoin, by making a few cosmetic changes to the standard software so that the messages can be distinguished.  After publising the 25 M software, a cartel with 51% of the hashpower is able to render the old 21M chain unusable, by orphaning all blocks found by other miners and ignoring all transactions directed at it.  Therefore they can impose any change to the protocol (such as the 25 M limit) that would be less damaging to the clienst than the jamming itself.

If what you say is true then why has it not happened yet?

First, similar forks happened twice already.  In both cases the developers got most of the miners to agree to the fork, even though it meant rewinding the blockchain by several dozen blocks.  The excuses were quite good, so there was no dispute.

As said above, it is risky to undertake such a move without a comfortable margin, and without a good discourse that would lessen the PR damage.  The cartel members must also stick together for the duration of the "attack".  These conditions did not exist before. (It is only recently that the top 51% became all-Chinese.) Those condition may well exist one year from now.  The motivation, for the top miners, is huge.
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April 03, 2015, 07:09:47 PM


(It is only recently that the top 51% became all-Chinese.)

how do you figure that the top 51% of hashing is Chinese?
Sitarow
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April 03, 2015, 07:13:06 PM


(It is only recently that the top 51% became all-Chinese.)

how do you figure that the top 51% of hashing is Chinese?

Perhaps Jorge will answer that by using a page out of the UT Chanel conspiracy play book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AXJxdBwvm0
JorgeStolfi
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April 03, 2015, 07:13:11 PM

with the reason above, no one will exchange anything valuable with those bitcoin, no matter the 21M or 25M fork

Yes, I distinctly remember how the dollar lost all its value when the US government removed its silver backing. No one would exchange anything of value for those pieces of green paper.   It was a suicidal move for the USG, they never recovered from that.  Grin
luckygenough56
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April 03, 2015, 07:14:04 PM

illuminatis/templars/reptilians are accumulating, new world order is near
rolling
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April 03, 2015, 07:15:23 PM


(It is only recently that the top 51% became all-Chinese.)

how do you figure that the top 51% of hashing is Chinese?

I don't think he understands that miners can change pools. Pools do not equal miners.
Sitarow
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April 03, 2015, 07:17:30 PM


(It is only recently that the top 51% became all-Chinese.)

how do you figure that the top 51% of hashing is Chinese?

I don't think he understands that miners can change pools. Pools do not equal miners.

As I have said Jorge does not understand what miners want or what options they have.
ensurance982
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April 03, 2015, 07:21:19 PM

I really expected this small awesome bull rally to die down over the night from Thursday to Friday, but we're still above $250 and climbing still. Slowly, but sustainably (I hope). I like this trend!
damiano
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April 03, 2015, 07:24:04 PM

wow shorts are actually increasing....

you'd think they'd cover knowing its going to be >300 in <2weeks

With the current order book it would take approximately 3.1million to reach $300 on bitfinex and that is without any surprises. 
JorgeStolfi
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April 03, 2015, 07:28:03 PM

I don't think he understands that miners can change pools. Pools do not equal miners.

When you mine for a pool, do you know what transactions you are mining?  Do you know who owns the pool?  Would you switch from a pool that pays above market (subsidized) to a pool that may not pay out anything (if the cartel prevails) or half as much as the other (if the cartel fails)?

Do you know who are the miners in the pools? Do you know how whether they agree that 21 M is holy, 25M is evil?
BlindMayorBitcorn
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April 03, 2015, 07:28:52 PM

I'm starting to get that sinking feeling again. Gravity might not be on our side here Gentlemen
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April 03, 2015, 07:29:53 PM

wow shorts are actually increasing....

you'd think they'd cover knowing its going to be >300 in <2weeks

With the current order book it would take approximately 3.1million to reach $300 on bitfinex and that is without any surprises. 
3.1millionen weeks?
ensurance982
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April 03, 2015, 07:30:29 PM

wow shorts are actually increasing....

you'd think they'd cover knowing its going to be >300 in <2weeks

With the current order book it would take approximately 3.1million to reach $300 on bitfinex and that is without any surprises. 

The order book on Finex was looking much worse the other day. The ask-side was incredibly strong and that little bid/ask-line thingy (how's it called, again?) was pointing down. Really down. Right now things seem to have normalized actually and both sides are in equilibrium, actually.
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