Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

Sooo... a 6tb hdd from HGST (The most reliable brand) costs $169 at newegg.

It's not only the physical sizeof the hard drive needed to store the blockchain that's causing problems. The length of time it takes to index the blockchain is getting longer as the size of the blockchain increases. That creates problems for anyone running a full wallet that needs to use it in a hurry if it takes hours, days, or weeks to index.

If you insist on running a full node then you'll have to run a full node. I don't see the problem. If it's a security issue then there are alternatives such as Trezor or other HW wallets. Or just load the private key into a client wallet on a clean device and send the remaining coins to a new cold wallet. If running a full node has to be as effortless as syncing your icloud account then Bitcoin is dead in the water.

[Erdogan]

Sooo... a 6tb hdd from HGST (The most reliable brand) costs $169 at newegg.

It's not only the physical sizeof the hard drive needed to store the blockchain that's causing problems. The length of time it takes to index the blockchain is getting longer as the size of the blockchain increases. That creates problems for anyone running a full wallet that needs to use it in a hurry if it takes hours, days, or weeks to index.

If you insist on running a full node then you'll have to run a full node. I don't see the problem. If it's a security issue then there are alternatives such as Trezor or other HW wallets. Or just load the private key into a client wallet on a clean device and send the remaining coins to a new cold wallet. If running a full node has to be as effortless as syncing your icloud account then Bitcoin is dead in the water.

^^
Just ignore the wallet part of it, leave it empty and continue using your preferred wallet.

[lebing]

OK finally...

Why did the market wait a whole week to dump 10K coins for 3 dollar discount?

 

Is this it? Or will we dump another 10k and get our $255 coin?

because the fork is actually happening now. This isnt going to be good for the price.

As I understand it the fork is a very slow process.

It is until it isnt. The writing is on the wall now. I am of the opinion this is going to be very bad for bitcoin.

This fork only makes difference when majority (75%) miners have switched to the new fork. Actually, since everyone can see the progress in the blockchain, once it is close to 75%, most of miners and nodes will switch already. So in my opinion, there will be no noticeable fork happen at all.

Depends on your perspective. From the perspective of a merchant or an exchange, it is very much going to affect them as there are going to be two copies of the blockchain and that means two copies of spendable coins. This is not going to be good.

[Erdogan]

OK finally...

Why did the market wait a whole week to dump 10K coins for 3 dollar discount?

 

Is this it? Or will we dump another 10k and get our $255 coin?

because the fork is actually happening now. This isnt going to be good for the price.

As I understand it the fork is a very slow process.

It is until it isnt. The writing is on the wall now. I am of the opinion this is going to be very bad for bitcoin.

This fork only makes difference when majority (75%) miners have switched to the new fork. Actually, since everyone can see the progress in the blockchain, once it is close to 75%, most of miners and nodes will switch already. So in my opinion, there will be no noticeable fork happen at all.

Depends on your perspective. From the perspective of a merchant or an exchange, it is very much going to affect them as there are going to be two copies of the blockchain and that means two copies of spendable coins. This is not going to be good.

The code fork is XT. The chain fork will look like just another random orphan. 5 blocks toppers.

[ronald98]

Sooo... a 6tb hdd from HGST (The most reliable brand) costs $169 at newegg.

It's not only the physical sizeof the hard drive needed to store the blockchain that's causing problems. The length of time it takes to index the blockchain is getting longer as the size of the blockchain increases. That creates problems for anyone running a full wallet that needs to use it in a hurry if it takes hours, days, or weeks to index.

If you insist on running a full node then you'll have to run a full node. I don't see the problem. If it's a security issue then there are alternatives such as Trezor or other HW wallets. Or just load the private key into a client wallet on a clean device and send the remaining coins to a new cold wallet. If running a full node has to be as effortless as syncing your icloud account then Bitcoin is dead in the water.

I have never run a full node, the only knowledge I have of the experience is from posts by others here. Spider-Carnage said his computer took about 4 days to index the blockchain, and I have heard others complaining of longer durations. I have sometimes read posts by the operators of exchanges saying Bitcoin withdrawals will be delayed for hours while they reindex their Bitcoin wallet. If this problem is ignored such delays will get longer. It would be better to deal with the problem before things get any worse, and if it's possible to fix it and make running a full node as effortless as syncing your icloud account then more people will start running full nodes to help the network.

[Erdogan]

Sooo... a 6tb hdd from HGST (The most reliable brand) costs $169 at newegg.

It's not only the physical sizeof the hard drive needed to store the blockchain that's causing problems. The length of time it takes to index the blockchain is getting longer as the size of the blockchain increases. That creates problems for anyone running a full wallet that needs to use it in a hurry if it takes hours, days, or weeks to index.

If you insist on running a full node then you'll have to run a full node. I don't see the problem. If it's a security issue then there are alternatives such as Trezor or other HW wallets. Or just load the private key into a client wallet on a clean device and send the remaining coins to a new cold wallet. If running a full node has to be as effortless as syncing your icloud account then Bitcoin is dead in the water.

I have never run a full node, the only knowledge I have of the experience is from posts by others here. Spider-Carnage said his computer took about 4 days to index the blockchain, and I have heard others complaining of longer durations. I have sometimes read posts by the operators of exchanges saying Bitcoin withdrawals will be delayed for hours while they reindex their Bitcoin wallet. If this problem is ignored such delays will get longer. It would be better to deal with the problem before things get any worse, and if it's possible to fix it and make running a full node as effortless as syncing your icloud account then more people will start running full nodes to help the network.

You don't have to wait for anything. Download, unpack, run. That's all.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

OK finally...

Why did the market wait a whole week to dump 10K coins for 3 dollar discount?

 

Is this it? Or will we dump another 10k and get our $255 coin?

because the fork is actually happening now. This isnt going to be good for the price.

As I understand it the fork is a very slow process.

It is until it isnt. The writing is on the wall now. I am of the opinion this is going to be very bad for bitcoin.

This fork only makes difference when majority (75%) miners have switched to the new fork. Actually, since everyone can see the progress in the blockchain, once it is close to 75%, most of miners and nodes will switch already. So in my opinion, there will be no noticeable fork happen at all.

Depends on your perspective. From the perspective of a merchant or an exchange, it is very much going to affect them as there are going to be two copies of the blockchain and that means two copies of spendable coins. This is not going to be good.

There will only be a fork once 75% have moved to XT. Up to that point there is but one chain.  Once the fork occurs, there will be a very rapid migration of the remainder to the consensus chain. There will be no extended period of duplicate chains.

[Erdogan]

OK finally...

Why did the market wait a whole week to dump 10K coins for 3 dollar discount?

 

Is this it? Or will we dump another 10k and get our $255 coin?

because the fork is actually happening now. This isnt going to be good for the price.

As I understand it the fork is a very slow process.

It is until it isnt. The writing is on the wall now. I am of the opinion this is going to be very bad for bitcoin.

This fork only makes difference when majority (75%) miners have switched to the new fork. Actually, since everyone can see the progress in the blockchain, once it is close to 75%, most of miners and nodes will switch already. So in my opinion, there will be no noticeable fork happen at all.

Depends on your perspective. From the perspective of a merchant or an exchange, it is very much going to affect them as there are going to be two copies of the blockchain and that means two copies of spendable coins. This is not going to be good.

They will be smart running some wallet based on XT, starting from today. No hazzle, just removing themselves from the problem, minding their business.

[lebing]

The code fork is XT. The chain fork will look like just another random orphan. 5 blocks toppers.

What does that mean?

[conspirosphere.tk]

If you insist on running a full node then you'll have to run a full node. I don't see the problem.

a problem is that the number of full nodes is already pathetically low, and to further decreasing it of an order of magnitude or 2 via much higher bandwidth and hardware specs opens a whole can of worms about transparency, trust, resilience/antifragility and whatnot.

I'd prefer that ppl use dogcoins or any alt of their choice for microtx, tips, spam, and frappucinos, and use btc only for serious stuff.

[Erdogan]

The code fork is XT. The chain fork will look like just another random orphan. 5 blocks toppers.

What does that mean?

The eventual chain fork will be so short lived, most people will not see it. I suppose by analyzing the timestamps you could, after the fact, see that a small number of miners were left on the smallblocks branch, until they discover they have been left at the station.

[ElectricMucus]

If you insist on running a full node then you'll have to run a full node. I don't see the problem.

a problem is that the number of full nodes is already pathetically low, and to further decreasing it of an order of magnitude or 2 via much higher bandwidth and hardware specs opens a whole can of worms about transparency, trust, resilience/antifragility and whatnot.

I'd prefer that ppl use dogcoins or any alt of their choice for microtx, tips, spam, and frappucinos, and use btc only for serious stuff.

Without a personal incentive to run a node that's not all surprising. In that respect the hard work is a welcome precedent so that such incentives may be added in the future.

[lebing]

There will only be a fork once 75% have moved to XT. Up to that point there is but one chain.  Once the fork occurs, there will be a very rapid migration of the remainder to the consensus chain. There will be no extended period of duplicate chains.

How do you know how long this will take and what the consequences will be in the meantime? Define extended period? As far as I understand it, this is going to be messy as hell and even if the old chain is sold into oblivion in 72 hours, the PR damage will be permanent and who knows who is going to get scammed or which transactions will get completely fucked in the meantime.

[aztecminer]

Can somebody explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old:

XT is supposed to make bitcoin futureproof, but how is it going to achieve that, when it can be spammed up to ~1.15gb / day, meaning that it'll take just 100 days for a determined attacker to increase the blockchain to +115gb, and around a year to take it up half a terabyte.

Terabyte hard drives are standard now. A year from now 5 TB drives will be standard. That's a worst case scenario and could still be easily handled.  

my blockchain downloads to three 1Tb hardrives in raid 0 configuration on both my desktop pcs (i do not download blockchain to laptop! i use laptop for offline transactions). in other words, for the newbs, i am writing the blockchain to three separate hard drives (equals reads/writes faster) that appear as on giant 3Tb hard drive. i only write data to these striped hard drives that i can afford to lose since they are not parity protected since that would slow the reads/writes down to those drives. i keep all important data on an external NAS drive with five 3tb hard drives parity raided (raid 5 or raid 6 cannot remember atm) giving me 8Tb of protected from catastrophe disk space. the os drives are 512Gb SSD drives on all pcs including laptop. this should be the very minimum disk configurations for all pcs these days imo.

[Erdogan]

There will only be a fork once 75% have moved to XT. Up to that point there is but one chain.  Once the fork occurs, there will be a very rapid migration of the remainder to the consensus chain. There will be no extended period of duplicate chains.

How do you know how long this will take and what the consequences will be in the meantime? Define extended period? As far as I understand it, this is going to be messy as hell and even if the old chain is sold into oblivion in 72 hours, the PR damage will be permanent and who knows who is going to get scammed or which transactions will get completely fucked in the meantime.

The main reason for a short life of two paralell coins, is that liquidity the the all important statistics. Two coins almost exactly the same is totally unstable. It has to lean to one side or the other, then the one with smaller popularity will take the liquidity hit and land hard.

EDIT: Running XT is the safe, laid back option. Watch the drama at a distance. It will follow the longest chain.

[Patel]

I consider this an test on Bitcoin's consensus.

To me, it's a form of a stress test.

We have individuals that are spreading their {beliefs|propaganda|opinions} to other users, and attempting to fork Bitcoin.

Let's see how easy it would be for a third party to fork Bitcoin to their own liking.

[lebing]

There will only be a fork once 75% have moved to XT. Up to that point there is but one chain.  Once the fork occurs, there will be a very rapid migration of the remainder to the consensus chain. There will be no extended period of duplicate chains.

How do you know how long this will take and what the consequences will be in the meantime? Define extended period? As far as I understand it, this is going to be messy as hell and even if the old chain is sold into oblivion in 72 hours, the PR damage will be permanent and who knows who is going to get scammed or which transactions will get completely fucked in the meantime.

The main reason for a short life of two paralell coins, is that liquidity the the all importan statistics. Two coins almost exactly the same is totally unstable. It has to lean to one side or the other, then the one with smaller popularity will take the liquidity hit and land hard.

Yeah the life might be short, but you can't quantify right now exactly how short that will be or what will happen in the meantime. My point is to think that this will not have a huge effect on the price is completely naive thinking. It is going to be a PR nightmare for bitcoin at a minimum. At worst it will simply destroy confidence entirely in a consensus based cryptocurrency system.

[Bagatell]

There will only be a fork once 75% have moved to XT. Up to that point there is but one chain.  Once the fork occurs, there will be a very rapid migration of the remainder to the consensus chain. There will be no extended period of duplicate chains.

How do you know how long this will take and what the consequences will be in the meantime? Define extended period? As far as I understand it, this is going to be messy as hell and even if the old chain is sold into oblivion in 72 hours, the PR damage will be permanent and who knows who is going to get scammed or which transactions will get completely fucked in the meantime.

The main reason for a short life of two paralell coins, is that liquidity the the all importan statistics. Two coins almost exactly the same is totally unstable. It has to lean to one side or the other, then the one with smaller popularity will take the liquidity hit and land hard.

"As to what will happen if/ when there is a hardfork:

Currently MultiBit Classic and HD both will follow the chain with the most work done in it.
Thus in a hardfork all the existing MultiBit code will follow the 'winner'. This is how the normal one or two block forks (that occur reasonably frequently) get resolved so it should just be the same but on a larger scale.

Both MultiBit Classic and HD connects to Bitcoin Core and XT happily and they should work correctly with larger blocks. The bloom filtered blocks Core/ XT send back to MultiBit are the same - MultiBit is agnostic about connecting to Core or XT."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43616.msg12154185#msg12154185

So all over in about twenty minutes or so.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

If you are planning on setting up a node, you should be fairly committed to it. More nodes are better, but only if those nodes are reliable ( have high availability) Nodes that pop up every now and again at random intervals can actually be detrimental to the network. I dont think there is a hard science to it, but it should be borne in mind.

If you want to run a node and be a real asset to the network, then you should be prepared to have a machine that is always on.