Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

If nobody is forced to do anything then those that are willing to carry things forward can do so. Linux is a simple example of this. Nobody is forced to use Gnome yet there is no consensus on using it. The minority might not like it. But they are not being forced to use it. They can come up with their own GUI or accept it if the majority puts all of the work into Gnome.

Ahem, that is what Gavin and Mike tried to do with BitcoinXT.  But it seeems that "come up with their own implementation" is not allowed in bitcoin space...

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[ssmc2]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

What happened to the bitcoin spin off?

http://dcg.co

Interesting. So Coinbase, Bitpay, And Ripple Labs are working together?

[hdbuck]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

What happened to the bitcoin spin off?

http://dcg.co

Interesting. So Coinbase, Bitpay, And Ripple Labs are working together?

sure, with goldman sachs too..

[BldSwtTrs]

I doubt even Marx himself would still believe in the Labor Theory of Value if he had ever been introduced to Marginal Utility.  

There is a thesis saying that Marx learnt about the marginalism (he was an avid reader) and understood it destroyed its system, and that's why he put off the publishing of the last two volumes of The Capital.

[nioc]

I was too early with selling the news a few days ago.
Now the EU VAT news is out, I'm happy to know we're going down again.

What's the opposite of a dead cat bounce called? How do you know this isn't a small retrace before the price continues to rise higher? I didn't notice any posts here discussing rumors about the VAT decision. I couldn't find any threads about it until the news got out, and I didn't know anything about it until then. I doubt many others were buying the rumor if there were no rumors flying around here.

We're you living under a rock since July 16th?

No, no rumours at all... I suggest you load up on expensive coins.
I'll wait and buy some $240 coins in the next two months...

I still can't find any old threads about it here, and I don't remember any discussions about it before the news was announced. Generally to buy the rumor means a community has to be talking about something and I don't remember any mention of the tax until today. This thread is great for finding out about the latest rumor, but I've not heard VAT mentioned for a long time.

Ah come on. As if all bitcoin buyers/investors come here to spread and buy the rumor.
This website is usually a pile of shit. Most bitcoin investors I know do not even come here or even know it's existence.

$240 in the next couple of months?  Great, that will coincide with more fiat.  Oh wait, does that mean I should sell now

Pile of shit?  I guess I need to get out more often

[JorgeStolfi]

maybe Prof. Jorge think that libertarian means anarchist.  were it was the same, we shouldnt make 2 word out of it isnt ?

Indeed I confess that I do not know the difference between the two when it comes to this issue: what decision process they advocate, in place of democratic vote and majority rule?

[JorgeStolfi]

But smart doesn't always mean right. Karl Marx, for example.

Smart means left, not right, of course. 

[yolalanda]

...
We are well aware of what Ayn Rand thought of us.  We don't have lots of love for her, either. We do have a serious respect for her contributions to free market thought, but if you wanna look at real intellectual cultists, take a look at the Objectivists.  I mean, even Nathaniel Brandon couldn't get along with her. True intellectuals don't worship their heros. We learn from them and build on the foundation. For example, even Saint Murray Rothbard himself though Intellectual Property was a legitimate concept. It isn't.

Rand was a brilliant but flawed woman.  Her books were interesting and compelling, but hardly great literature. Her philosophy survives now only as an intellectual backwater. How ironic that Rothbard, one of The Chosen, was much less of an elitist.  I respect Rand but I love Rothbard.  I'm a firefighter with two jobs and about as far from being a hippie as you can get and still be white.

EDIT: Rand was also a Jew. Smart people, those Hebes. But smart doesn't always mean right. Karl Marx, for example.

What can say? With Jews, you lose!

Discussing something this loosely defined, with no (or too many) manifestos/seminal texts, with each Libertarian (sometimes calling self Anarcap) having his own, unique, ever-shifting definition. Because don't pigeonhole me, bro.
Every Libertarian/Anarcap being unique, the terms become meaningless, making it hard to know just WTF we're talking about. Not a Rand fan myself, but hard to disagree with her take on [contemporary, white American] Libertarians/Anarcaps.

[findftp]

If nobody is forced to do anything then those that are willing to carry things forward can do so. Linux is a simple example of this. Nobody is forced to use Gnome yet there is no consensus on using it. The minority might not like it. But they are not being forced to use it. They can come up with their own GUI or accept it if the majority puts all of the work into Gnome.

Ahem, that is what Gavin and Mike tried to do with BitcoinXT.  But it seeems that "come up with their own implementation" is not allowed in bitcoin space...

You're right. People murdered them right away.

[findftp]

$240 in the next couple of months?  Great, that will coincide with more fiat.  Oh wait, does that mean I should sell now

Like I said, sell the news...

But, if you're a permabull like me you can also chose to buy, hold and trade with 5% of your stack...

[billyjoeallen]

If nobody is forced to do anything then those that are willing to carry things forward can do so. Linux is a simple example of this. Nobody is forced to use Gnome yet there is no consensus on using it. The minority might not like it. But they are not being forced to use it. They can come up with their own GUI or accept it if the majority puts all of the work into Gnome.

Ahem, that is what Gavin and Mike tried to do with BitcoinXT.  But it seeems that "come up with their own implementation" is not allowed in bitcoin space...

I wouldn't write off XT or BIP101 just yet.  You'd be surprised at how a market crash or a network crash can influence people's opinions. Something will be done to implement a scaling solution, we just don't know if it will be before or after the competition comes up with a solution. Either bitcoin will succeed or another cryptocoin will replace it. We just have to wait to see how this plays out.  I may even rent some hashpower on an XTpool if I can afford it.

[billyjoeallen]

maybe Prof. Jorge think that libertarian means anarchist.  were it was the same, we shouldnt make 2 word out of it isnt ?

Indeed I confess that I do not know the difference between the two when it comes to this issue: what decision process they advocate, in place of democratic vote and majority rule?

Oh, Good. I get to school the professor. Anarcho-capitalists are a subset of libertarians.  We differ from "minarchist" libertarians who favor a minimal State.  The former are revolutionaries. The latter are reformers.

AnCaps favor market based decision-making. For example two parties to a conflict can either choose a mutually agreeable third party to resolve disputes or choose to fight it out (but only with their own resources!).  Common law and emergent practices guide collective action. 

[ChartBuddy]

Coin

Explanation

[cbeast]

Price is stuck in a Lower Rule of Thirds loop. It can't break 280 because scalability. Expect 230s return.

[billyjoeallen]

Almost a perfect descending triangle forming. Look out below!

[Fatman3001]

You've had a bunch of southern racists and a certain australian media mogul telling you for decades that you shouldn't learn about true liberalism and true socialism. That's what makes the US of A such a fucked up place. A strong state is important.  True liberal values are important. A strong democracy is important. The political analfabetism of americans is what's destroying America.

Are you serious? You think we get our ideas from Rupert Murdoch?  We have the largest economy in the world because of...what exactly? The Teamsters?

You don't, that's the EU. If you're talking about sovereign state economy, it's because you have one of the largest populations in the world.

Ah, yes."true socialism". Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried because it wasn't "true socialism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

This sort of speaks to my point. You only refer to socialism as a charicatured bogey. If you've ever spent some time in Sweden, or comparable social democracies, you'd know that the whole basis of the american political debate is perversely skewed to the right.

This hostility you feel towards the state is due to the democratic deficit in the US political system caused by the demonization of the left, intellectual laziness and conformity.

Your anarcho-liberal stance is a conform expression of your unease with this democratic deficit.

Grow some balls! Fight for a state that works FOR the people!

[brg444]

You've had a bunch of southern racists and a certain australian media mogul telling you for decades that you shouldn't learn about true liberalism and true socialism. That's what makes the US of A such a fucked up place. A strong state is important.  True liberal values are important. A strong democracy is important. The political analfabetism of americans is what's destroying America.

Are you serious? You think we get our ideas from Rupert Murdoch?  We have the largest economy in the world because of...what exactly? The Teamsters?

You don't, that's the EU. If you're talking about nation state economy, it's because you have one of the largest populations in the world.

Ah, yes."true socialism". Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried because it wasn't "true socialism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

This sort of speaks to my point. You only refer to socialism as a charicatured bogey. If you've ever spent some time in Sweden, or comparable social democracies, you'd know that the whole basis of the american political debate is perversely skewed to the right.

This hostility you feel towards the state is due to the democratic deficit in the US political system caused by the demonization of the left, intellectual laziness and conformity.

Your anarcho-liberal stance is a conform expression of your unease with this democratic deficit.

Grow some balls! Fight for a state that works FOR the people!

Sweden's wealth was originally built on the grounds of strong free-market capitalism

[billyjoeallen]

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/innovation/chinese-miner-releases-14-nm-asic-targeting-consumers/

holy crap.  Bitmain's antminer s5 is what? 27 nm? and it sold out in one Day!

anybody want to go in with me on this and resell them on Amazon? You need to buy a minimum of 333 and I don't have that kind of coin just lying around. Ok, maybe I do, but I'm not going to spend that much.

EDIT: I can't find shit on these guys. No website. No listing on Alibaba. nutt'n honey.

[billyjoeallen]

You've had a bunch of southern racists and a certain australian media mogul telling you for decades that you shouldn't learn about true liberalism and true socialism. That's what makes the US of A such a fucked up place. A strong state is important.  True liberal values are important. A strong democracy is important. The political analfabetism of americans is what's destroying America.

Are you serious? You think we get our ideas from Rupert Murdoch?  We have the largest economy in the world because of...what exactly? The Teamsters?

You don't, that's the EU. If you're talking about nation state economy, it's because you have one of the largest populations in the world.

Ah, yes."true socialism". Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried because it wasn't "true socialism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

This sort of speaks to my point. You only refer to socialism as a charicatured bogey. If you've ever spent some time in Sweden, or comparable social democracies, you'd know that the whole basis of the american political debate is perversely skewed to the right.

This hostility you feel towards the state is due to the democratic deficit in the US political system caused by the demonization of the left, intellectual laziness and conformity.

Your anarcho-liberal stance is a conform expression of your unease with this democratic deficit.

Grow some balls! Fight for a state that works FOR the people!

So which is it? If Europe is one economy, then you can't use just a part of it like Sweden as an example of success.  I could cherry pick a few states that do better than the rest as a rebuttal, perhaps one with ethnic homogeneity like Sweden.

I don't need to caricature socialism. I have North Korea.

No State works for the people. If they did, they wouldn't need to be supported involuntarily through taxes.

[Richy_T]

It wouldn't be an effective attack unless there was genuine disagreement to exacerbate. The shrinking number of nodes could be easily fixed by borrowing a trick from our Proof of Stake friends: Take some fraction of the block reward away from the miners and distribute it to full node operators. Small miners already running nodes would be largely unaffected.  Pool miners would take a little hit, but that's a good thing, right? Pools are a threat to decentralization, aren't they?

I think this is a good point. I don't necessarily think that node operators should be paid for just running nodes (it's certainly a point for discussion though) but the idea that people would be running them altruistically is just plain nonsense. If you have a reason to run a node, it should be because it has value to you, not because you're a nice guy. Thus you should be willing to invest the money in whatever it takes to run that node. Maybe it supports a service you sell or maybe you just find it valuable to be in control. Bitcoin is built around market incentives and the idea of imposing artificial controls to enable people to run nodes "Just because they should" makes little sense to me.