Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Except everyone upgrades their miners....meaning nothing changes and nobody is getting cheaper coins o_O.  If everyone is still using similar efficiency 28nm and hash rate drastically increases, then miners are suddenly making no money and have to HODL unless they want to sell at a loss.  Hash rate just increased 37% in a couple weeks.

The problem nowadays is that even if they wanted to hold, they couldn't. Most of the mining business is built on debt by people who thought that buying mining equipment, plugging it in and operating it with 3 different commands, makes them industrialists. They will probably see the end of their endeavors in one big wave of bankruptcy and despair.

[marcus_of_augustus]

heh, heh, heh ... derp is strong with this one, it is.

[r0ach]

plugging it in and operating it with 3 different commands, makes them industrialists.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[r0ach]

When do you guys want me to stop pumping?  Around $550-$600 so as to not form a double top?

yes that would be the optimum level to stop the pump
I need it around $600 so I can sell the coins that I have  
thanks for the continued support on this and I am sure the community appreciates this.

Done

[noobtrader]

yor theory is wrong...

the latest miner is very efficient that it almost 3 times cheaper to mine btc with it, only 100+ usd to mine 1 btc  atm with those newest miner.  if price can keep  up or at least stay then difficulty should rises to 2x-3x of todays difficulty as old miner upgrading their miner.

Every new generation of miners have been cheap during their release period. And everyone of them have quickly become expensive and many of them are already obsolete, only adding to the needless costs.
The entire concept was built on the idea of CPU mining, that the network would be spread out and ran by computers that are already in everyones homes. That is how PoW would have worked better, because there would have been a lot less needless costs and this arms race of stupidity wouldn't have gotten so out of hand.

miner doesnt make coin cheaper, total coin emission is fixed. in the end, price depend on demand  

[rebuilder]

Except everyone upgrades their miners....meaning nothing changes and nobody is getting cheaper coins o_O.  If everyone is still using similar efficiency 28nm and hash rate drastically increases, then miners are suddenly making no money and have to HODL unless they want to sell at a loss.  Hash rate just increased 37% in a couple weeks.

The problem nowadays is that even if they wanted to hold, they couldn't. Most of the mining business is built on debt by people who thought that buying mining equipment, plugging it in and operating it with 3 different commands, makes them industrialists. They will probably see the end of their endeavors in one big wave of bankruptcy and despair.

Do you expect all miners to go bankrupt in one blow? If not, then what will happen if mining is unsustainably expensive is that the hashrate will drop until sustainability is reached again. Hopefully that rate will be sufficient to secure transactions.

Don't get me wrong, I do think currently security comes with far too high a pricetag. The question is, how much hashrate is sufficient security? The design goal as far as I've read is to make a double spends and other attavks uneconomical, but what does that mean in terms of % of valuation spent on network security per annuum? This worries me. Miners dumping the maximum of what the block subsidy gives them daily doesn't.

[JayJuanGee]

ops i sold all my bitcoins

oh well.

see you later.

 

lol

Adam possesed by the bear spirit!! what are you doing!!!! HELL, INSTANT BUY NOW!!!!

I believe that shorting had worked for him once, and now he believes that shorting is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[marcus_of_augustus]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

TA this ...

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

miner doesnt make coin cheaper, total coin emission is fixed. in the end, price depend on demand  

Currently we were talking about the production cost of 1 coin.

Do you expect all miners to go bankrupt in one blow? If not, then what will happen if mining is unsustainably expensive is that the hashrate will drop until sustainability is reached again. Hopefully that rate will be sufficient to secure transactions.

Don't get me wrong, I do think currently security comes with far too high a pricetag. The question is, how much hashrate is sufficient security? The design goal as far as I've read is to make a double spends and other attavks uneconomical, but what does that mean in terms of % of valuation spent on network security per annuum? This worries me. Miners dumping the maximum of what the block subsidy gives them daily doesn't.

I expect this to be a fast rolling snowball. When the first miners start go bankrupt and their coins dumped on the market, then it will be harder for the other miners to calm their creditors and make them hope for better times, so now they also need to sell. The mining business has just been built on too high hopes and the more it overheats, the more probable a catastrophic crash will be.

My vision of the future involves more PoS and less PoW, because I think that pure PoW will inevitably cause overheating of mining, while PoS mining would only cause a sharp inflow of funds to the speculator market.

[r0ach]

[marcus_of_augustus]

http://www.afr.com/business/banking-and-finance/bitcoins-journey-from-money-laundering-appeal-to-teaching-the-banks-20151126-gl9gup

Chowdhry, a professor of finance at UCLA, was asked by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences to nominate a candidate for the prize, and chose Nakamoto because bitcoin "is nothing short of revolutionary".

According to Chowdhry, this will mean huge changes for those working in banking, finance and the law.

"Not only will Satoshi Nakamoto's contribution change the way we think about money, it is likely to upend the role central banks play in conducting monetary policy, destroy high-cost money transfer services…eliminate the 2-4 per cent transactions tax imposed by intermediaries such as Visa, MasterCard and Paypal, eliminate the time-consuming and expensive notary and escrow services and indeed transform the landscape of legal contracts completely,"

read 'em and weep, the die was cast in 2009 ... some people are simply slow to catch on.

[noobtrader]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

TA this ...

MOON time ?
seriously, it happen because more efficient miner are doubling the hashrate as miner are upgrading them. also new player are investing in mining buzz.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Sitarow]

[Wolf Rainer]

This is killing me!!!

[marcus_of_augustus]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

TA this ...

MOON time ?
seriously, it happen because more efficient miner are doubling the hashrate as miner are upgrading them. also new player are investing in mining buzz.

... not so simple but .... there are some simple economics and market dynamics at play here that have been in evidence since from the days of CPU mining and overheating laptops and the fundamentals haven't changed. It's still just hardware burning electricity grinding on a processor-hard problem. Tech, and fabrication development curve has muddied it a little but we are reaching maturity and plateauing with that shortly so it will be back to the original game.

I never realised you guys are so far behind the curve on this stuff ... you need to analyse both hashrate and price curve dynamics together.

There have been several best times ever to buy bitcoin in its short history and they are obvious, miner's know exactly when to buy ... and that is the floor.

[dloghwak]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

TA this ...

MOON time ?
seriously, it happen because more efficient miner are doubling the hashrate as miner are upgrading them. also new player are investing in mining buzz.

There have been several best times ever to buy bitcoin in its short history and they are obvious, miner's know exactly when to buy ... and that is the floor.

Watch out we got a badass over here, augustus trades every floor before he even got his morning coffee.

[Tstar]

And we're going up once more. This is a rollercoaster at the moment and we all know it.
Sure thing is fun as hell! Let's see what this Black Friday brings here

[marcus_of_augustus]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

TA this ...

MOON time ?
seriously, it happen because more efficient miner are doubling the hashrate as miner are upgrading them. also new player are investing in mining buzz.

There have been several best times ever to buy bitcoin in its short history and they are obvious, miner's know exactly when to buy ... and that is the floor.

Watch out we got a badass over here, augustus trades every floor before he even got his morning coffee.

... I don't trade at all, I just watch ... people losing money, mostly.