Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[slowmo1983]

what did just happen to cause this pump?

[Dotto]

OHMYGOSH

[CuntChocula]

I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split.  If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?

For a start, the PoW.

After that, it depends.

Depends on what?  If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?  

Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.

ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?

The market.

Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?

If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.

90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:

<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?

According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?

What happened to the "store of value" function? To store (and be considered a part of the "economic majority), I must buy & sell?

[Dotto]

Adam fatfingered it and bought all the bitcoins

[madmat]

Adam fatfingered it and bought all the bitcoins

I love bitcoin. Can't stay stable more than a few days

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[smooth]

I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split.  If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?

For a start, the PoW.

After that, it depends.

Depends on what?  If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?  

Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.

ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?

The market.

Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?

If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.

90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:

<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?

According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?

Hell no, holding is what gives it value.

If you simply hold both, the split of value between the forks does not matter to you at all.

Assuming anyone else values this Bitcoin shit at all of course. If no one does, then you're screwed, same as if we wake up tomorrow and no wants Bitcoin any more.

If you want guaranteed store of value, independent of what other people value, too fucking bad. That doesn't exist. About the best you can do is buy a chocolate bar, at least you can eat it.

[soullyG]

Pop pop! Last time we see the $300's?

[macsga]

I wanted to post this since 5126 BC 

[smooth]

I'd advise trader here to secure their long position.

We have consensus.

When did this royal "we" come to this result?

Should I act quickly, or do I have a few days of down before the up comes?

Not long ago.

I'd advise you act quickly.  

^^

Hell of a call right there I would say

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

This will probably peak at around 410, and then we'll see a proper drop.

[Dotto]

See the bulls running is one of the most exciting sports in earth.

Go, bulls, go!!

[CuntChocula]

I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split.  If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?

For a start, the PoW.

After that, it depends.

Depends on what?  If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch? 

Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.

ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?

The market.

Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?

If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.

90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:

<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?

According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?

Hell no, holding is what gives it value.

Assuming anyone else wants to buy, they can only buy from miners which is a limited supply. Welcome moon.

If no one else wants to buy any sort of Bitcoin, then you're screwed. Same as would happen tomorrow if we woke up and no one wanted to buy Bitcoin without a fork. No guarantee that won't happen.

If you want guaranteed store of value, independent of what other people value, too fucking bad. About the best you can do is buy a chocolate bar, at least you can eat it.

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.

You claim: "Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important [will be implemented]."
I ask: Via what mechanism?
You reply: The market, dur!
I ask: What does that mean? I hold 5%, I don't trade it, what mechanisms are available to me to make my opinion count?
Sure, I can try to sell my hodlings, but only post factum. The "economic majority" is not the BTC long-term hodlers, but the*fiat hodlers*, those willing to *buy* BTC.
The miners aren't selling BTC to me, they're selling BTC to people with fiat, those are the opinions that matter, not mine (I'm not buying, remember?)
The interests of buyers != the interests of hodlers != interests of miners.

[Richy_T]

Hate to bust your chops on this, but that would be 'dogs and cats... _living_ together...'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

Hence points off. The other parts didn't match either.

[Richy_T]

I've gone from being confused about opt-in RBF to sort of indifferent. Theymos may have seduced me with his charms tho.

You may wish to ponder his assertion that it is unlikely that anyone will customize a client to provide pushbutton 'rescind payment' abilities. If we have learned anything about script kiddies, it is that there are plenty who destroy only for the lulz of watching the world burn.

Indeed, one of the core devs has already done it for zero conf. (That's Peter Todd for those not following)

[smooth]

I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split.  If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?

For a start, the PoW.

After that, it depends.

Depends on what?  If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch? 

Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.

ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?

The market.

Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?

If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.

90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:

<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?

According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?

Hell no, holding is what gives it value.

Assuming anyone else wants to buy, they can only buy from miners which is a limited supply. Welcome moon.

If no one else wants to buy any sort of Bitcoin, then you're screwed. Same as would happen tomorrow if we woke up and no one wanted to buy Bitcoin without a fork. No guarantee that won't happen.

If you want guaranteed store of value, independent of what other people value, too fucking bad. About the best you can do is buy a chocolate bar, at least you can eat it.

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.

You claim: "Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important [will be implemented]."
I ask: Via what mechanism?
You reply: The market, dur!
I ask: What does that mean? I hold 5%, I don't trade it, what mechanisms are available to me to make my opinion count?
Sure, I can try to sell my hodlings, but only post factum. The "economic majority" is not the BTC long-term hodlers, but the*fiat hodlers*, those willing to *buy* BTC.
The miners aren't selling BTC to me, they're selling BTC to people with fiat, those are the opinions that matter, not mine (I'm not buying, remember?)
The interests of buyers != the interests of hodlers != interests of miners.

Those same participants (fiat buyers, BTC holders/speculators, miners, merchants, users, etc.) are there now, determining the value of the coins you hold.

All of those participants will be there later, determining the value of the coins you hold.

If you disagree with the economic majority (market consensus) then by definition you trade, and thereby your opinion matters. If you don't trade, then your opinion matches the market consensus.

[HI-TEC99]

what did just happen to cause this pump?

That's what I was going to ask. Is it just because it dumped yesterday, so it's pumping today, or is there any news that made it pump? It's been range bound for the last half a week, and it could go back down to the lower end of the range if the pump's not because of any news, or perhaps it will break out of the range.

[barbs]

I'm not buying this

Feel free to call me an idiot later and quote me

[8up]

I'm not buying this

Feel free to call me an idiot later and quote me

Agree. It's damn hard to buy this shit.

[spiderbrain]

I really feel like someone knows something I don't! Maybe there's been a bitcoin dev compromise...?