Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[soullyG]

Stocks down, Bitcoin up!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ftse-100-hits-3-year-low-as-50bn-wiped-off-value-of-uk-s-biggest-companies-a6822601.html

[soullyG]

[podyx]

[AZwarel]

wow, 400$ wall getting eaten in seconds o.0

[oda.krell]

I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split.  If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?

For a start, the PoW.

After that, it depends.

Depends on what?  If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch? 

Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.

ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?

The market.

Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?

If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.

It's a pleasure to read you cutting right through the bullshit 'thought experiments' arguments based on economic naivety.

Glad to see you're back on the speculation sub.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Mike Hearn - “The fundamentals are broken and whatever happens to the price in the short term, the long term trend should probably be downwards,” he writes on Medium. “I will no longer be taking part in Bitcoin development and have sold all my coins.”

[billyjoeallen]

I really feel like someone knows something I don't! Maybe there's been a bitcoin dev compromise...?

I think it's a technical rally. The 4 HR Moving average went green. TERA trades that and maybe others.

[GreekGeek]

WTF just happened? Any news?

[madmat]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

[GreekGeek]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

Source?

[madmat]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

Source?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41qdrt/bitcoin_classic_update_email_for_subscribers_tldr/

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

Source?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41qdrt/bitcoin_classic_update_email_for_subscribers_tldr/

There are like 40 Core contributors. Who's going to maintain this thing if we fork off?

[billyjoeallen]

People's Bank of China apparently is saying they may issue a digital currency. I don't know why this would be good news for Bitcoin. It's a massive potential competitor and the Commies may want to help it by discouraging Bitcoin.

Worst case scenario, they nationalize the Chinese mines for use with their currency.

[inca]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

Source?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41qdrt/bitcoin_classic_update_email_for_subscribers_tldr/

There are like 40 Core contributors. Who's going to maintain this thing if we fork off?

You don't understand open source development.

[becoin]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

haha
XT, Classic, Unlimited or whatever altcoin fork. People just don't care anymore. They just buy bitcoins in view of the stock market tsunami on the horizon.

[barbs]

I did not have vertigo until I saw the three hour chart

[ShakinHandz]

Price Rising Again and it is predicted to go Beyong 403$ by 24 hours.
Time to buy guys...

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

WTF just happened? Any news?

Bitcoin classic will release its code next week. Bitcoin is saved. BUY BUY BUY.

Source?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41qdrt/bitcoin_classic_update_email_for_subscribers_tldr/

There are like 40 Core contributors. Who's going to maintain this thing if we fork off?

You don't understand open source development.

Your smugness might be one of your strongest qualities. Thanks.

[CuntChocula]

I could do that myself now: make a copy of core, change the PoW formula, and presto: a hard fork happened, and the coin has split.  If the 1000 PH/s is not important, what is the difference between my bitcoin and their bitcoin?

For a start, the PoW.

After that, it depends.

Depends on what?  If the hashpower is not important, and preserving the PoW is not important, then what is the magic factor that would cause all the value to go to the CoreCoin branch instead of the CartelCoin branch?  

Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important. If it is sticking with the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. If it is firing the existing miner fleet, that's where the value ends up. There is no answer you or I can state without that information that is more correct than another.

ELI5 the mechanism for the the "economic majority" to make its wishes known & relevant?

The market.

Assuming I hold 90% of all the coins mined to date (I'm economic majority), how do I go about this shit?

If you own 90% of the coins, you are the market. Obviously not realistic. In reality there are many participants, and they'll trade with one another and work it out. One fork will be worth more than the other, probably a lot more, but who knows.

90% was chosen at random. Let's say I own 5%, and keep in in cold storage, as a "store of value." How do I make my voice count?
Keep in mind, you edited out the important part:

<>If I'm just holding the coin (not solding), why do my wishes matter to the miners (I do not buy, only hodl)? To the exchanges (I do not trade, only hodl)?

According to your reasoning, by not trading (hodling the coin in cold storage), I effectively make myself irrelevant. Correct?

Hell no, holding is what gives it value.

Assuming anyone else wants to buy, they can only buy from miners which is a limited supply. Welcome moon.

If no one else wants to buy any sort of Bitcoin, then you're screwed. Same as would happen tomorrow if we woke up and no one wanted to buy Bitcoin without a fork. No guarantee that won't happen.

If you want guaranteed store of value, independent of what other people value, too fucking bad. About the best you can do is buy a chocolate bar, at least you can eat it.

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.

You claim: "Whatever it is that the economic majority thinks is more important [will be implemented]."
I ask: Via what mechanism?
You reply: The market, dur!
I ask: What does that mean? I hold 5%, I don't trade it, what mechanisms are available to me to make my opinion count?
Sure, I can try to sell my hodlings, but only post factum. The "economic majority" is not the BTC long-term hodlers, but the*fiat hodlers*, those willing to *buy* BTC.
The miners aren't selling BTC to me, they're selling BTC to people with fiat, those are the opinions that matter, not mine (I'm not buying, remember?)
The interests of buyers != the interests of hodlers != interests of miners.

Those same participants (fiat buyers, BTC holders/speculators, miners, merchants, users, etc.) are there now, determining the value of the coins you hold.

All of those participants will be there later, determining the value of the coins you hold.

If you disagree with the economic majority (market consensus) then by definition you trade, and thereby your opinion matters. If you don't trade, then your opinion matches the market consensus.

I'm gonna try ELY5:

I own a house (my part of the economy), one of the many houses in Bitcoinia (the economy), which, in turn, is conveniently situated below a levee.
Mayoral election coming up. Mayor A wants to nuke the levee (is Socialist, presumably), mayor B doesn't (is Ron Paul).

I ask you: How do I vote for Ron Paul, I don't want to live with communists, underwater!
You reply: Vote with your wallet. If you don't like the Mayor who gets elected, sell the house.
I sputter:  Buh...but wouldn't that be too late? My underwater house won't be worth shit, because in a socialist town! I don't want to watch the elections and leave if the commies win, I want a voice. How do I vote? You said I could, because economic majority. But clearly you didn't mean me, I could only react, sell my house when it becomes aquatic.
You: The market will take care of it, invisible hand.

@oda.krell: feel free to field this.