Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

The actual problem is that there are people out there who think they know better what the cap is supposed to be than Satoshi's 1MB.

stupid

Another advantage of the 1MB cap is that once these idiots realize they can't really change it,

stupid

they will fork off from Bitcoin to their favourite shitcoin,

stupid

taking their shitty poet shills and useless economic activity with them.

stupid


But thanks anyway.

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[ahpku]

The actual problem is that there are people out there who think they know better what the cap is supposed to be than Satoshi's 1MB.

Such as Satoshi himself, for instance.

It [higher cap] can be phased in, like:

if (blocknumber > 115000)
    maxblocksize = largerlimit

But I'll keep spouting gibberish, no matter how often my betters kindly correct me.

That's what makes you you

[European Central Bank]

Check out this guy, who actually had the arrogance to propose how to remove Satoshi's cap.

That makes for kinda sad reading considering where we're at now.

And this guy nailed it a mere five and a half goddamn years ago. Maybe that should've been Satoshi's parting gift. I may not know anything about this stuff but I could've predicted that.

Only recently I learned about this block size limit.

I understand not putting any limit might allow flooding. On the other hand, the smaller your block, the faster it will propagate to network (I suppose.. or is there "I've got a block!" sort of message sent before the entire content of the block?), so miners do have an interest on not producing large blocks.

I'm very uncomfortable with this block size limit rule. This is a "protocol-rule" (not a "client-rule"), what makes it almost impossible to change once you have enough different softwares running the protocol. Take SMTP as an example... it's unchangeable.

I think we should schedule a large increase in the block size limit right now while the protocol rules are easier to change. Maybe even schedule an infinite series of increases, as we can't really predict how many transactions there will be 50 years from now.

[AlexGR]

So the definition of spam is something that is bought cheap?

The point is that it doesn't matter if it's free or paid, if what you pay is near-zero cost. It definitely cannot be a factor of ruling out spam if the fees are too cheap and aren't an adequate deterrent.

And even "adequate deterrent" is wrong, as a term, because a script kiddie might not afford a good spam attack but a deep-pocketed adversary may not be deterred by the costs, because by attacking in this fashion he is getting side-benefits by harming BTC.

From these graphs I conclude that about 2/3rd of all tx are part of chains longer than 10. So what?

When you receive a payment, do you often send your coins to another address, to another address, to another address, to another address, in a chain of hundreds or thousands? Are we serious?

Do you want people to just sit and pretend that all this is somehow "natural growth" and that there is a "problem" when the majority of txs are junk - done by god knows who - and we should give him/them the tools to continue doing that at ever lower prices, and with more space to spam?

If you have an attack vector, or a weakness, do you amplify it?

Is this rational behavior?

But anyway, this issue is ..."solved" because either classic or core, 1mb is dead and we go to 1.7 to 2.

Question is, what should the minimum fee be at a given block size limit to have enough headroom for a consistent user experience? Recycling an arbitrary limit as a capacity quota is not a good answer.

Things like that aren't simple. Someone could counter-argue that the central planning of fees isn't much different than central banking policies.

[ahpku]

So the definition of spam is something that is bought cheap?

The point is that it doesn't matter if it's free or paid, if what you pay is near-zero cost. It definitely cannot be a factor of ruling out spam if the fees are too cheap and aren't an adequate deterrent.

And even "adequate deterrent" is wrong, as a term, because a script kiddie might not afford a good spam attack but a deep-pocketed adversary may not be deterred by the costs, because by attacking in this fashion he is getting side-benefits by harming BTC.

Spam is the work of Communists, deep-pocketed Fifth Columnists, Obama, and Saurian saboteurs. It can not be stopped, mainly due to the fact that it can't be defined.
Abandon all hope

[julian071]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Paashaas]

Russia is getting tougher on cryptos:
http://www.coindesk.com/report-russia-to-propose-7-year-prison-sentences-for-digital-currency-issuers/

Russian demand has been accelarating since 2014, what will those communist leaders do next, give Bitcoiners life sentence...?

[ahpku]

Russia is getting tougher on cryptos:
http://www.coindesk.com/report-russia-to-propose-7-year-prison-sentences-for-digital-currency-issuers/

Russian demand has been accelarating since 2014, what will those communist leaders do next, give Bitcoiners life sentence...?

Who knows? 
"The use of Bitcoin cryptocurrency by drug dealers in Russia has shown a 20-time increase over the past two years, the Federal Drug Control Service (FDCS) said Thursday."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20160225/1035349748/bitcoins-drug-dealiers-russia.html#ixzz42bqDL6GD

[Meuh6879]

Russia is getting tougher on cryptos:
http://www.coindesk.com/report-russia-to-propose-7-year-prison-sentences-for-digital-currency-issuers/

Russian demand has been accelarating since 2014, what will those communist leaders do next, give Bitcoiners life sentence...?

-snip-

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[wachtwoord]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

[adamstgBit]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

the problem is see with that is that it isn't very competitive...

poeple will start using centralized BTC  payment processors 
poeple will start using altcoins

and the idea that we can't do better then 5tx/s is insulting

make segwit
make block interval 2.5mins
make block size 8MB

there i've solved bitcoin scaling! 

[julian071]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

Nothing wrong with deterring people if you want to be part of an elite club. The Club of Original Crypto Conaisseurs^TM or COCC^TM for short.

[Fatman3001]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

Nothing wrong with deterring people if you want to be part of an elite club. The Club of Original Crypto Conaisseurs^TM or COCC^TM for short.

I like COCC. It rolls so smoothly off the toungue.

Ok, I'm in!

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

Nothing wrong with deterring people if you want to be part of an elite club. The Club of Original Crypto Conaisseurs^TM or COCC^TM for short.

I like COCC. It rolls so smoothly off the toungue.

Ok, I'm in!

Leaves a funny taste in your mouth tho.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[adamstgBit]

i dont see price sticking to 420 very long... breaking 425 today or tonight is my bet

[8up]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

Nothing wrong with deterring people if you want to be part of an elite club. The Club of Original Crypto Conaisseurs^TM or COCC^TM for short.

I like COCC. It rolls so smoothly off the toungue.

Ok, I'm in!

Do you really think the $$$ would be worth anything if just the elite was using it. I guess we will figure out pretty soon, that the dollar is worth not-a-thing... Because what we see these days is money concentrated in the hands of very few. Money that doesn't buy you anything, isn't worth anything.

[molecular]

Pft deterring fees will occur automatically as the block reward disappears. At a price of 500$/BTC it would work out like this:

1 block (25 bitcoins) created every 10 minutes -> for each minute, 2.5 bitcoins are created X $500/bitcoin = $1250/minute.
So every minute $1250 in fees needs to come from transactions (instead of the block rewards today)
Using 10 transactions/sec as maximum speed (with current block size), 600 transactions each minute.
$1250/600 transactions = $2,08 per transaction.

Even higher BTC price -> even higher fees.

Edit: and if you use 5 tx/s instead of the theoretical 10 tx/s the amount doubles.

Yup. What's wrong with $4 a transaction? Totally fine. $40 a tx is fine too ....

high friction (tx fees) enable fractional banking (which we wanted to get rid of in the first place)